RFK jr says CIA killed JFK

[W. Niederhut]

6 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

I just checked, the Douglass book is now number 7 in sales, paperback.

I agree with Bobby and Jim that the CIA was the main engine in the assassination.  I think the Pentagon came in at Bethesda.

My only real dispute with Jim's book is that I disagree with the thesis that Kennedy turned at the Missile Crisis.

In my view, his ideas about foreign policy were formed when he went into the office. 

This is why Oliver, in his film, placed a lot of emphasis on the Algeria speech. Which Bobby talks about in the long version.

WABC is a really big deal in NYC.  And I disagree that Bobby is pushing this.  He was asked about it and he replied honestly.

 

My question for David Josephs and the forum.

Has any U.S. agency other than the CIA ever organized a political assassination op -- other than the Navy SEALS hit on Osama Bin Laden?

[David Josephs]

Just now, W. Niederhut said:

My question for David Josephs and the forum.

Has any U.S. agency other than the CIA ever organized a political assassination op -- other than the Navy SEALS hit on Osama Bin Laden?

Well...  I sure hope this doesn't mean you think I am somehow separate and distinct from "the forum" 

I hope my position was clear...  I'll reiterate.  Without the Military, the CIA is toothless.  Providing a laundry list of who the CIA had killed for political reasons can be found easily...  let's see, who was Sec of State during the beginning of these ZR/RIFLE escapades and what was his brother doing and from where does his brother originate ?

How many files from the Military Intelligence agencies have you seen compared to the CIA's?  How about Immigration and Naturalization files?

You bring it up in your question, ask yourself - you think this is the one and only "executive action" the NAVY Seals have committed in defense of our great nation?  Why would it be so publicized? Many of you won't like the notion that he was killed as Oswald was killed - a patsy for nations like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and the US MIC whose ties to the largest wealth on the planet supersedes all.

I've been gathering information of Military Intelligence for as long as I've been researching in hopes I'd get to it now in my retirement... the volume is enormous and consists of publications and studies and reports that are so far out of mainstream access and awareness in favor of the spotlight that shines on the big bad CIA.  Not to say they are not big and bad, just that one must also ask oneself... how long prior to the CIA was the military involved in intelligence? Hundreds of years in the US, thousands of years in parts of the world.

You think this apparatus was going to just hand over these reigns - how do people in power, stay in power?  They make it look like things are changing when they never do.  Just the history of acronyms within the military will drive you bonkers.

Yes, I am long winded... the answer to your question is yes, of course.  In fact, if any of the CIA's Ops were not Military in nature, support, and coverup I'd be very surprised.

[Michael Griffith]

25 minutes ago, David Josephs said:

I hope my position was clear...  I'll reiterate.  Without the Military, the CIA is toothless.  

As a 21-year veteran of military intelligence and as a long-time student of military and intelligence history, I can assure you that that is not true. 

Just look at the Vietnam War: The CIA had numerous weapons and assets of its own in South Vietnam. 

Edited May 9, 2023 by Michael Griffith

[David Josephs]

1 hour ago, Michael Griffith said:

My own belief is that several powerful groups combined to assassinate JFK and then to cover up the crime.

 

Cue broken record:

SPONSORS
FACILITATORS
MECHANICS

When looking at the assassination and related cover-ups in this manner - at least for me - it became crystal clear.

One can only guess at the sponsors, educated guesses yes, but by their very nature and the propaganda they control, pinning them down by saying "it was the Rockefellers" may placate a few, but is not really saying anything on which to hold them accountable.

Facilitators in this play are the people we blame the most on this forum... the seen CIA, the hidden Military Intelligence.  Atlee Phillips for example, Joannides another... Dulles a conduit between them and the Sponsors.  A facilitator does what they do to remain in the good graces of the Sponsors - to be accepted (and funded) by them with wild fantasies of becoming one...  that hardly ever happens unless that Facilitator shows the capacity to be invisible while in their role.

Finally, the Mechanics... the Mafia, Cubans, boots on the ground military... Humes in this case.  When facilitator LeMay enters the room Humes wets his pants and does what he is told to do.  They are expendable if they resist, and expendable if they don't yet need to be removed.

1 hour ago, Michael Griffith said:

Some of the best evidence regarding suspects points to the Mafia.

Yet not a single arrest, not a single public accusation, the farce that was the HSCA with Blakey pointing the Mafia finger at the behest of the CIA, while ordered to stay away from Mexico with a 50' pole. Facilitator telling Mechanic what their job is.  Sprague wouldn't play along... gone.  Specter does... Senator.  We get what's his face FILES with his lame confession.  "I was elsewhere? Oh, that's my twin brother" 

Maybe the Mafia provided some of the Mechanics, probably actually did.  Rosselli winds up in a drum, where do you suppose these mechanics on the knoll or in DalTex or where-ever are?

We must as a community understand Bethesda better than we do without feeling we have to pay homage to Lifton, despite his Book being so important, we can still give him the due he deserves.

RFK Jr. has to play the game, so the CIA is the scapegoat because they've always been and are amazingly adept at handling it. and as you mention, it's mention stops the sheep from grazing for a moment and pop their heads up.

 

 

 

 

[David Josephs]

4 minutes ago, Michael Griffith said:

Just look at the Vietnam War: The CIA had numerous weapons and assets of its own in South Vietnam. 

I have, very closely.  What were they all called Mike?  Military advisors, no?

[Michael Griffith]

1 minute ago, David Josephs said:

I have, very closely.  What were they all called Mike?  Military advisors, no?

They were "called" all sorts of things: advisors, attaches, assistants for this or that, and not always in an allegedly military capacity either. The CIA not only had its own weaponry assets in South Vietnam, it had its own bases. 

[David Josephs]

5 minutes ago, Michael Griffith said:

As a 21-year veteran of military intelligence and as a long-time student of military and intelligence history, I can assure you that that is not true. 

Just look at the Vietnam War: The CIA had numerous weapons and assets of its own in South Vietnam. 

I do not want to start a tit-for-tat discussion or have this degrade at all so far from the thread's subject.

I'll leave with only - Where is the CIA budget housed?  Why was the JCS so incensed when JFK made them OVERTLY responsible for everything the CIA had been doing?

Were there smaller enclaves of CIA assets/equipment separate and distinct from the military, probably... remove the Military from standing behind the CIA with a huge stick that everyone facing the CIA can see and we crumble compared to the likes of the German and Russian intelligence services.  IMO as the information I've seen leads me to conclude.

I am wrong quite often about so many things...  as an insider to MI maybe you can shed more light on how or why they would give up anything to the CIA...  in another thread you might wish to start.. 
 

[W. Niederhut]

Very informative, David.  Any implied disagreement may simply be a question of semantics.

I was using the term "organize" (above) to refer to what you call, "facilitation" of the JFKA "mechanics."

[Michael Griffith]

46 minutes ago, David Josephs said:

I do not want to start a tit-for-tat discussion or have this degrade at all so far from the thread's subject.

I'll leave with only - Where is the CIA budget housed?  Why was the JCS so incensed when JFK made them OVERTLY responsible for everything the CIA had been doing?

Were there smaller enclaves of CIA assets/equipment separate and distinct from the military, probably... remove the Military from standing behind the CIA with a huge stick that everyone facing the CIA can see and we crumble compared to the likes of the German and Russian intelligence services.  IMO as the information I've seen leads me to conclude.

I am wrong quite often about so many things...  as an insider to MI maybe you can shed more light on how or why they would give up anything to the CIA...  in another thread you might wish to start.. 

Look, it's just an exaggeration to say that without the military the CIA is "toothless." That is just not true. If you want to say that in some cases without the military the CIA would be less effective or even unable to deploy, well, yes, I would agree with that. But to say they'd be "toothless" without the military is going too far. 

And as for JFK's order that mandated that military-type operations be taken out of the CIA's hands and put under the responsibility of the JCS, the CIA flat-out ignored it, as some of our fellow conspiracy theorists have noted in their books and articles. The CIA continued to carry out paramilitary operations without the JCS's knowledge, much less their approval. In Vietnam, in many cases the military had no idea what the CIA was doing. In both Vietnam and Laos, in many cases the CIA was a law unto itself. It had its own bases, its own weaponry assets, its own intelligence apparatus, its own supply chain, etc., etc. 

We'll agree to disagree.

 

 

 

 

 

[James DiEugenio]

Its really unfortunate that some people have chosen Bobby Kennedy's declarations on WABC and Fox to start an argument about their favorite theory.

Look, we had Bobby saying this I think twice in 48 hours.  Something that no political candidate ever says.  

That is something we should be celebrating, not saying, hey how many of these files have you looked at?  "Big bad, CIA". that was something that Thomas Graves used to say.

Let us just be glad RFK Jr is out there and saying this stuff and promoting a very good book on the case.

 

RIght now the Douglass book is still at 17 on Amazon.  Not bad for a book that came out in 2007.  Jim should be properly appreciative.  As we all should be.  

 

Edited May 9, 2023 by James DiEugenio

[Anthony Venturella]

15 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

Its really unfortunate that some people have chosen Bobby Kennedy's declarations on WABC and Fox to start an argument about their favorite theory.

Look, we had Bobby saying this I think twice in 48 hours.  Something that no political candidate ever says.  

That is something we should be celebrating, not saying, hey how many of these files have you looked at?  "Big bad, CIA". that was something that Thomas Graves used to say.

Let us just be glad RFK Jr is out there and saying this stuff and promoting a very good book on the case.

 

RIght now the Douglass book is still at 17 on Amazon.  Not bad for a book that came out in 2007.  Jim should be properly appreciative.  As we all should be.  

 

Well said, Jim. Bravo to RFK Jr. Perhaps he--and his mentioning of the Douglass book--is our "ripple of hope." 

[James DiEugenio]

Thanks Anthony.  And I agree about that ripple.

Edited May 9, 2023 by James DiEugenio

[Charles Blackmon]

6 hours ago, Charles Blackmon said:

RFK Jr. doubles down on allegation CIA involved in JFK's assassination: '60-year cover-up' | Fox News

Just a few hours later and this story on FOX disappears from the front page. Odd...

Edited May 9, 2023 by Charles Blackmon

[David Josephs]

48 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

That is something we should be celebrating, not saying, hey how many of these files have you looked at?  "Big bad, CIA". that was something that Thomas Graves used to say.

Context Jim... you've taken what I wrote our of context completely.  The point was in reply to a question.  

3 hours ago, David Josephs said:

Has any U.S. agency other than the CIA ever organized a political assassination op -- other than the Navy SEALS hit on Osama Bin Laden?

That the CIA is the chosen boogie man in all things abhorrent, and for good reason as well as to get those who don't listen to much to stand up and notice...  I applaud RFK Jr. - never said otherwise.

I simply made the point we do not have the plethora of documents from the purely military agencies and acronyms, or the I&NS, as we do from the CIA and for good reason.   The CIA takes the brunt of all these attacks while "same as it ever was" activity is honed and sharpened within the Military Establishment.

Nobody hauls out accusations towards the ONI in a public forum... why?  we have little if any documentation to back us up... like calling out the NSA...   How damaging really to the military were the Pentagon papers?  They weren't called "The Langley Papers" now were they?

It still takes courage to call out the CIA for JFK... we both know there were no CIA in that room at Bethesda.  Whether the populace knows or not isn't relevant.  "   the CIA" will be allowed... Do it to the NSA or ONI or the like and you're a traitor no matter how right you may be.   Didn't mean to rile you so.

I was addressing a direct question.

I'm very happy Douglass' book is getting the attention it needs.  We can't rewrite history so the CIA is guilty of everything the Military/NSA has ever done just because it makes a better soundbite. 

[Eddy Bainbridge]

The Murdoch's are in a very tight spot after the Dominion Lawsuit. To them , it won't be relevant who killed JFK. What is relevant is that they need friends. The CIA could become very helpful to a news organisation that agrees to shut up about the JFKA.

Edited May 9, 2023 by Eddy Bainbridge