Edwin Lopez: Oswald never visited embassies in Mexico City

[Pamela Brown]

And then we have the Nichiporenko book, "Passport to Assassination" which claims that the Lee Oswald who staged a dramatic scene at the Soviet Embassy was the same Lee whose photo they later saw after the assassination....

[James DiEugenio]

As the illustrious Robert Charles Dunne noted about that Nechiporenko additive with Oswald at the Soviet embassy, it was as if the Russians were recalling their great playwright Anton Chekov and decided to throw in a scene out of Uncle Vanya.

Does anyone really buy that story?  He has bandying about a handgun since he felt he was being pursued by the FBI?

If I recall correctly, these guys were set up with a deal from an American producer living in Russia.

[Steve Roe]

The photo that was used on Oswald's Cuban Visa application was found in Oswald's possessions. They are one and the same (a copy). It was shown to Marina, and she didn't recognize it, but she recognized the tan pullover sweater.

The Visa photo was stapled to the application when it was sent off to Havana. The other photo found in Oswald's possessions, naturally did not have a staple mark.

The plausible answer was Oswald had one or more of those photos with him and took it down to Mexico City. That would explain why the FBI could not find any local photo shops in Mexico City that remembered him taking pictures. Even though Duran told him where to go take a visa photo, most likely he went back to his room and submitted the photo in his possession for his application. The clothes Oswald wore at the Cuban Consulate did not match what he had on in the visa photo. 

The tan pullover sweater is CE 161 (FBI Q188). It was found at Beckley.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1133#relPageId=544 

Oswald was in Mexico City, and there's plenty of evidence to back it up. 

[Pamela Brown]

On 9/3/2023 at 7:52 PM, James DiEugenio said:

Also, the FBI checked every passport photo shop in about a three mile radius

 

No one recalled Oswald.

Let's not fall prey to the fallacy of false alternatives...

He may have brought the photos with him...

Edited September 5, 2023 by Pamela Brown

[Benjamin Cole]

11 hours ago, David Josephs said:

Uh, because he was never at either facility.  

SLAWSON to COLEMAN about "fudging" the call contents.  1/4/64 Comments on First Draft Oswald in MX

The RIF is 179-40006-10049 yet is NOT online - was received from Blunt's photocopied docs direct from NARA.

The SLAWSON answer below goes to show how accepting of the CIA's transcripts as the "evidence Oswald was in Mexico" Slawson's "what's the point" comment is, to me, chilling.

SLAWSON CONTINUES:  Entire last paragraph...  "No contacts by Oswald" to go along with the 30 or so FBI assets also looking for any sign Oswald was there.  The Hotel Registry also comes from OCHOA

Never happened Ben.  Meeting Kostikov never happened and Kostikov never actually associated with Dept 13.  FBI memo at the bottom assumes the connection yet asks for any CIA corroboration. 

.

This is from Hoover to Helms/McCone - FBI has no info re Kostikov being Dept 13.

Kinda like blaming Oswald for Walker...  bogus info to add weight to the charges against him.

Here's Helms admitting that even their ruse didn't have the desired effect as Oswald was associated with YATSKOV and not Kostikov.  All part of the Oswald "legend" as a communist controlled killer.  (cough cough BS cough) with a couple more related docs.

DJ-

So, you contend the all three KGB officers, including Kostikov, were simply flat-out lying, knowing they were recorded and filmed, when they told PBS-Frontline, c. 1993, they met the real LHO in MC in 1963?

Do you think the trio were bribed by the federal government-funded PBS-Frontline, or entities affiliated with the media outlet?

I do not rule simple bribery out. I do not rule it in, either. What is your view?

PBS is, after all, a government mouthpiece. 

My understanding is the FBI may not have concluded that Kostikov was Dept. 13, but others had, including the CIA which said (in the memo you provide) they considered Kostikov to be Dpt. 13 beyond reasonable doubt. 

What is your response to the defector  Nosenko memo, that LHO had in fact visited the Russian embassy in 1963? 

If LHO had never visited the Russian Embassy, why did the Russians never say so? 

A simple declaration, "LHO never visited the Russian Embassy in September 1963. We have nothing to do with the American assassin." Moscow accepted the MC story line without complaint, even though it suggested a Moscow connection to the JFKA. 

Was Moscow afraid the CIA might in fact have photos of LHO entering the Embassy? 

Again, your document work is excellent.

But the filmed and recorded PBS-Frontline-KGB version of LHO's visit to the Russian Embassy is hard to shake, as is the fact that Moscow never contested LHO had in fact visited their Embassy.  

As always, just IMHO, and we can be on different pages without hostility of any kind. 

Edited September 5, 2023 by Benjamin Cole

[James DiEugenio]

1 hour ago, Pamela Brown said:

Let's not fall prey to the fallacy of false alternatives...

He may have brought the photos with him...

According to John Newman, Oswald had no passport type photos.  He left and came back in about an hour with them.  (Oswald and the CIA, pp. 356-57)

BTW, this is one of the things that made her suspicious about him.  That he was so unprepared to do what he said he wanted to do.  Which was to get an in transit visa through Cuba.

"Duran, however was suspicious because Oswald had not been sent by the American Communist Party, which had a deal with the Cuban Communist Party allowing approved Americans to get visas immediately." (ibid)

Edited September 5, 2023 by James DiEugenio

[Pete Mellor]

14 hours ago, Steve Roe said:

The photo that was used on Oswald's Cuban Visa application was found in Oswald's possessions. They are one and the same (a copy). It was shown to Marina, and she didn't recognize it, but she recognized the tan pullover sweater.

The Visa photo was stapled to the application when it was sent off to Havana. The other photo found in Oswald's possessions, naturally did not have a staple mark.

The plausible answer was Oswald had one or more of those photos with him and took it down to Mexico City. That would explain why the FBI could not find any local photo shops in Mexico City that remembered him taking pictures. Even though Duran told him where to go take a visa photo, most likely he went back to his room and submitted the photo in his possession for his application. The clothes Oswald wore at the Cuban Consulate did not match what he had on in the visa photo. 

The tan pullover sweater is CE 161 (FBI Q188). It was found at Beckley.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1133#relPageId=544 

Oswald was in Mexico City, and there's plenty of evidence to back it up. 

Thanks Steve!  V. Interesting post & completely new information to me.

I look forward to counter replies to refute this evidence.

[David Josephs]

18 hours ago, Steve Roe said:

The photo that was used on Oswald's Cuban Visa application was found in Oswald's possessions. They are one and the same (a copy). It was shown to Marina, and she didn't recognize it, but she recognized the tan pullover sweater.

The Visa photo was stapled to the application when it was sent off to Havana. The other photo found in Oswald's possessions, naturally did not have a staple mark.

The plausible answer was Oswald had one or more of those photos with him and took it down to Mexico City. That would explain why the FBI could not find any local photo shops in Mexico City that remembered him taking pictures. Even though Duran told him where to go take a visa photo, most likely he went back to his room and submitted the photo in his possession for his application. The clothes Oswald wore at the Cuban Consulate did not match what he had on in the visa photo. 

The tan pullover sweater is CE 161 (FBI Q188). It was found at Beckley.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1133#relPageId=544 

Oswald was in Mexico City, and there's plenty of evidence to back it up. 

The Visa photo was stapled to the application when it was sent off to Havana. The other photo found in Oswald's possessions, naturally did not have a staple mark.

There were 2 applications, each with their own photo stapled to the top.  The image on the left is claimed to be of "the original" and shows no staples and is obviously the CC and not the original whereas the one on the right is the original (despite the WCR calling it the CC) and makes it hard to see how to identical applications could be so badly placed as to get all the CC writing in the wrong places.

Again... this is only a copy with the FBI never showing or sharing the original

Here is a photo of photos found in Oswald's possession including 2 more photos of the 4 supposedly taken for the applications.

And no one finds it suspect that Duran - whose job it is to help people get their visas and recommends a place for photos to be taken - cannot remember the name of the photographic shop she supposedly sent this man.  BS.

Also notice the photo used for the SSS/DoD cards including HIDELL at the upper right, with the place for the stamp already removed

 

 

 

The plausible answer was Oswald had one or more of those photos with him and took it down to Mexico City.

Well, the plausible answer involves including the rest of the evidence and situation in your conclusions and don't simply accept a single event, alone on an island, as indicative of what occurred.  This is where Duran describes a very different man than our Oswald...  and since when is a shirt and tie "not wearing nice clothes"

I'd ask you - what makes you think the photo on the copies of the application was the photo of the same person who spoke with DURAN and was the original photo sent to Cuba when the WC would not show DURAN this application w/photo until 15 years later and both AZCUE and DURAN say it was a different man?

 

LOPEZ - Just for the record, my weight is 199 pounds. You told us before he had a suit on.
TIRADO - That I don't remember very well. I think he was wearing a jacket but what I can remember is that he was not wearing nice clothes, expensive clothing. He was cheap, perhaps.

Edited September 5, 2023 by David Josephs

[David Josephs]

12 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

What is your response to the defector  Nosenko memo, that LHO had in fact visited the Russian embassy in 1963? 

In the documents Clinton received from Russia there is a single page about how to talk about Mexico in which they are told to simply agree with the events as told in the press.  Once they did that, any Russian spoken to would have to have the same story and support the official line.  I do think you'll find McCoy's work interesting and really the only attack on JJA's faith in the man.

 

[Handwritten number: 721 Top Secret. Copy no. 2 Appendix 2 Draft

MEXICO TO THE SOVIET AMBASSADOR 665.

I agree with you that you should visit the MFA of Mexico (the minister or his deputy) and say, referring to reports in the press, that Oswald requested the consular division of the Soviet embassy in Mexico for a visa to enter the USSR, that the procedure for obtaining entry visas was explained to him at the consular division, and that afterwards he no longer contacted the Soviet embassy. According to information available at the embassy, the request for the entry of Oswald and his family into the USSR that he made at the Soviet embassy in Washington was turned down. You can reply in the same vein to other relevant questions by members of the Mexican and foreign press. k03413/GS

 

WASHINGTON THE SOVIET AMBASSADOR 2005.

I agree with you. You may send Rusk photocopies of the correspondence between the embassy and Oswald, including his letter of November 9, but without waiting for a request by the U.S. authorities. When sending the photocopies, say that the letter of November 9 was not received by the embassy until November 18; obviously it had been held up somewhere. The embassy had suspicions about this letter the moment it arrived: either it was a forgery or was sent as a deliberate provocation. The embassy left Oswald’s letter unanawered.

 

Have you read the McCoy report on Nosenko Ben?   
LEONARD MCCOY RECOMMENDATION TO REEVALUATE NOSENKO  104-10095-10126
LEONARD MCCOY WRITE-UP OF THE NOSENKO CONCLUSIONS  104-10095-10151

 

Would we agree that any direct, provable information about Oswald in MX during that time would be of immense help in proving he was there and for whatever reasons the CIA created.

That if the Russians had met with this man - and the Russians were being watched and taped and followed virtually around the clock - then the CIA would have recorded such and activity summaries for that time would include this visit and the subsequent "chatter" over the American.  In the weeks following the assassination there was a heightened sense of awareness over what the Cubans/Russians were saying in the aftermath.  Again, Oswald is never spoke of by the Russians and only slightly mentioned by the Cubans - that DURAN gave a good performance (her words).

There was none.  Not a single word uttered by anyone about the American trying repeatedly to get into the Soviet compound until the October LIENVOY summary report from Nov 7th in relation to the Oct 8th CIA report 6453 (below)

Between the 8th of Oct and Nov 7th when this report is written quite a lot happens in identifying this man as LEE OSWALD including the original Oct 8th memo.  While the other people are specifically named, all we get re: Oswald is "English-speaking man". 

The Oct 8th CIA memo connects this man to the SATURDAY Sept 28th visits to the Soviets... (yet M/M Tarasoff the CIA translators will tell a different story).

I hope some of this helps clarify your thinking.  One needs to consider the "nod and wink" attitude of the intelligence community across country & political lines...  As long as Oswald did it, there'd be little reason for any backlash against the Russians...  fwiw

 

 

 

 

[Pamela Brown]

12 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

According to John Newman, Oswald had no passport type photos.  He left and came back in about an hour with them.  (Oswald and the CIA, pp. 356-57)

BTW, this is one of the things that made her suspicious about him.  That he was so unprepared to do what he said he wanted to do.  Which was to get an in transit visa through Cuba.

"Duran, however was suspicious because Oswald had not been sent by the American Communist Party, which had a deal with the Cuban Communist Party allowing approved Americans to get visas immediately." (ibid)

Lee could have gone back to his hotel to get the photos.

 

[Pamela Brown]

20 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

As the illustrious Robert Charles Dunne noted about that Nechiporenko additive with Oswald at the Soviet embassy, it was as if the Russians were recalling their great playwright Anton Chekov and decided to throw in a scene out of Uncle Vanya.

Does anyone really buy that story?  He has bandying about a handgun since he felt he was being pursued by the FBI?

If I recall correctly, these guys were set up with a deal from an American producer living in Russia.

Lee showed them the handgun, saying this is how he.had to protect himself from the likes of the FBI.  who had even contacted his wife.  

[Pamela Brown]

1 hour ago, David Josephs said:

The Visa photo was stapled to the application when it was sent off to Havana. The other photo found in Oswald's possessions, naturally did not have a staple mark.

There were 2 applications, each with their own photo stapled to the top.  The image on the left is claimed to be of "the original" and shows no staples and is obviously the CC and not the original whereas the one on the right is the original (despite the WCR calling it the CC) and makes it hard to see how to identical applications could be so badly placed as to get all the CC writing in the wrong places.

Again... this is only a copy with the FBI never showing or sharing the original

Here is a photo of photos found in Oswald's possession including 2 more photos of the 4 supposedly taken for the applications.

And no one finds it suspect that Duran - whose job it is to help people get their visas and recommends a place for photos to be taken - cannot remember the name of the photographic shop she supposedly sent this man.  BS.

Also notice the photo used for the SSS/DoD cards including HIDELL at the upper right, with the place for the stamp already removed

 

 

 

The plausible answer was Oswald had one or more of those photos with him and took it down to Mexico City.

Well, the plausible answer involves including the rest of the evidence and situation in your conclusions and don't simply accept a single event, alone on an island, as indicative of what occurred.  This is where Duran describes a very different man than our Oswald...  and since when is a shirt and tie "not wearing nice clothes"

I'd ask you - what makes you think the photo on the copies of the application was the photo of the same person who spoke with DURAN and was the original photo sent to Cuba when the WC would not show DURAN this application w/photo until 15 years later and both AZCUE and DURAN say it was a different man?

 

LOPEZ - Just for the record, my weight is 199 pounds. You told us before he had a suit on.
TIRADO - That I don't remember very well. I think he was wearing a jacket but what I can remember is that he was not wearing nice clothes, expensive clothing. He was cheap, perhaps.

Lee was wearing a v neck sweater in these photos.

Is there a description of what he was wearing when he went to the Cuban embassy?

[Joe Bauer]

The tan, V-neck, sleeveless vest sweater photo of Oswald - where and when was this taken?

Was it taken at an immigration application location, a post office, in a photo booth?

Marina didn't take this photo?

Who did?

 

Edited September 5, 2023 by Joe Bauer

[Sandy Larsen]

1 hour ago, Pamela Brown said:

Is there a description of what he was wearing when he went to the Cuban embassy?

 

Pamela,

I can't understand why you believe that Oswald went to the Cuban consulate. There are no surveillance photos of him going there. The guy who went inside was blond, according to Duran, Azcue, and even the surveillance camera. He was obviously an imposter, something that even J. Edgar Hoover admitted to.

It is only the FBI/WC coverup narrative that has Oswald going there. Why are you so insistent on believing the WC's story?

 

[David Josephs]

1 hour ago, Pamela Brown said:

Is there a description of what he was wearing when he went to the Cuban embassy?

Only the one from DURAN as posted above. 

Does this ring true for you Pamela?  Of the 1 or 2 places she sends people for visa photos SHE CAN'T REMEMBER? 

Would you supposed she'd send people miles away or within walking distance ?
Why would the WC not want to show DURAN the application w/photo in 1964?

CORNWELL - And what did you do with the photographs?
TIRADO - Stapled them.
CORNWELL - Stapled them?
TIRADO - Yes.
CORNWELL - On top of the application.
TIRADO - Yes.

 

If the man in the application photo was not the man AZCUE or DURAN describe or testify to, how can photos of our Oswald - the man they say was NOT the man in MX - how can the application photos be of the man they saw?

CORNWELL - So, from all the circumstances, did it appear to your that he just went somewhere locally and had the pictures made?
TIRADO - Yeah. I think that I already explained (to) him where he could take the photographs.
CORNWELL - You told him some locations in town where he could go? Were there some right in the neighborhood of the Consulate there?
TIRADO - That I don't remember.
CORNWELL - All right. But at any rate you knew of some place at the time, mentioned one or two places to him?
TIRADO - Yes.
CORNWELL - Correct?... Did you look at the photos when he brought them back, careful about to be sure that it was the same man who was standing in front of you?
TIRADO - Yes.

(DJ - again interesting they don't ask if the man on the application is the man who came to her desk.. just that the photo and the man matched.  

LOPEZ - Would you do me a favor and describe him for me now?
TIRADO - Yes.
LOPEZ - For example, let's start at the beginning. Was he tall, short?
TIRADO - Short.
LOPEZ - Short. Could you stand up for a minute, Gary?(Laughter.) Would you say he was as tall as Gary?
TIRADO - Yeah, more or less.
LOPEZ - Would you say he was taller than Gary?
TIRADO - No, I think just the same. He was about my size.
LOPEZ - About your height?
TIRADO - Yeah.
LOPEZ - Okay. And what's your height?
TIRADO - 160. I think 160 or 162.
LOPEZ - Was he skinny?
TIRADO - Yes. Skinny.  (DJ: I get the impression she misunderstood and is talking about herself here)
LOPEZ - Could you estimate how much he weighed?
TIRADO - About your weight, more or less.
LOPEZ - About my weight. We already went over...
TIRADO - He has stronger shoulders, perhaps, than yours.
LOPEZ - Just for the record, my weight is 199 pounds. You told us before he had a suit on.
TIRADO - That I don't remember very well. I think he was wearing a jacket but what I can remember is that he was not wearing nice clothers, expensive clothing. He was cheap, perhaps.

Interesting in that they showed DURAN the application (with or without photo in unknown) and she still describes a man possibly wearing a suit, very short, and although she says skinny, a 5'4" man almost 200 lbs is not skinny.

When AZCUE says the man wasn't the Oswald Ruby killed...  is he being honest?
When LITAMIL/9 says he was never there?
When we have reports regarding where he actually was which the FBI stonewalled