Wesley Buell Frazier needs to be asked some serious questions!

[Keyvan Shahrdar]

What if Marina is the instigator and was trying to get Lee the job at the TSBD? One thing we know for sure, Lee was placed there. The questions is, who placed him there? This would mean that Marina's father was a double agent for the CIA or Marina and the Russians had a hand in the assassination. I have been thinking about this issue for years.

[Jean Ceulemans]

7 hours ago, Pete Mellor said:

Nancy Weiford contributed a two part feature article for DPUK's 'Dealey Plaza Echo' for the 60th anniversary two part edition.  (Buell Wesley Frazier: A Person of Interest.)  For that article, Nancy interviewed Buell Wesley Frazier back in March 2023.  On the issue of Linnie's view of Wes' car & LHO putting the package into the back seat, Nancy writes:- "She eventually made several statements about this incident.  Some details did not mesh with the line of sight she would have had either from the window or from the kitchen back door.  The carport had long wooden slats on the north side that hampered the view of Wesley's car she would have needed to see in order to observe Oswald actually place the sack in the car.  Later, she adjusted her original statement to indicate she hadn't actually seen him do that, but she heard the sound of the rear car door which was the only one unlocked.  From that sound, perhaps she assumed he had placed the long sack inside the car."

Oswald then appeared at the kitchen door, minus the sack that Linnie had seen him with through her kitchen window. 

Thank you for this reply !

That part (how could she see...) has been bugging me for some time (while reading some old posts on that)

Edited November 8, 2023 by Jean Ceulemans

[Ron Bulman]

I've posted the FBI pictures on this before somewhere on here.  They are Warren Commission exhibits.  Of the kitchen window, carport and Wes's car on the other side of it.  From the carport/kitchen door of the slats you can see nothing through.

[Pete Mellor]

17 hours ago, Keyvan Shahrdar said:

What if Marina is the instigator and was trying to get Lee the job at the TSBD? One thing we know for sure, Lee was placed there. The questions is, who placed him there? This would mean that Marina's father was a double agent for the CIA or Marina and the Russians had a hand in the assassination. I have been thinking about this issue for years.

Me thinks thou doth think too much Keyvan.

One thing we know for sure, Lee was placed there.  Objection your honour!  How do we know that? 

This would mean that Marina's father was a double agent for the CIA or Marina and the Russians had a hand in the assassination.  Please, no.

[James DiEugenio]

8 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

I've posted the FBI pictures on this before somewhere on here.  They are Warren Commission exhibits.  Of the kitchen window, carport and Wes's car on the other side of it.  From the carport/kitchen door of the slats you can see nothing through.

And let us not forget, the one door that was unlocked because it was broken.

That whole episode is really kind of smelly to me.

As was his HSCA interview. 

And the Shields revelations.

Finally, is there not a debate as to where he was after the shooting?

 

[Ron Bulman]

This is frustrating.  I've printed the photo's I'm talking about before to give to a friend who lived nearby in 1963.  Now I cant' find them.  WC Exhibits 442-447.  442-3 are available on line.  Linne Mae Randle at the kitchen sink by the window. the house from the corner.  Not the one from the street showing the window, carport and Wes's car parked beside it.  Nor the one from the kitchen door of the carport and slats preventing the view of Wes's car.  (Not) Funny these two are now MIA.  Why?

[Alan Ford]

23 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Finally, is there not a debate as to where he was after the shooting?

There should be, Mr. DiEugenio!

Mr. Frazier's accounts of his post-assassination movements have been all over the place.

We're supposed to believe that Mr. Oswald became a person of interest when he was noticed 'missing'. You would think that law enforcement would want to speak with the man who had given him a ride to work that morning and was universally considered his one friend in the place. But no, not a hint of Mr. Frazier's having received any attention at this stage. Within hours (how many?), he's being arrested.

What time did he really leave the Depository and Dealey Plaza?

What time did he really arrive at the hospital to see his stepfather?

[Pat Speer]

6 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

This is frustrating.  I've printed the photo's I'm talking about before to give to a friend who lived nearby in 1963.  Now I cant' find them.  WC Exhibits 442-447.  442-3 are available on line.  Linne Mae Randle at the kitchen sink by the window. the house from the corner.  Not the one from the street showing the window, carport and Wes's car parked beside it.  Nor the one from the kitchen door of the carport and slats preventing the view of Wes's car.  (Not) Funny these two are now MIA.  Why?

I asked Frazier about the slats in 2014. He said they obstructed a clear view but you could still see movement on the other side. I think he's telling the truth about this. We have Venetian blinds in our kitchen and have them slightly open, where some light comes in, but you can't see much while looking straight out. And yet when someone walks past you can see them. 

[Pete Mellor]

19 minutes ago, Alan Ford said:

We're supposed to believe that Mr. Oswald became a person of interest when he was noticed 'missing'. You would think that law enforcement would want to speak with the man who had given him a ride to work that morning and was universally considered his one friend in the place. But no, not a hint of Mr. Frazier's having received any attention at this stage. Within hours (how many?), he's being arrested.

What time did he really leave the Depository and Dealey Plaza?

What time did he really arrive at the hospital to see his stepfather?

On the 1st floor of the TSBD Frazier was questioned by a police officer about his whereabouts at the time of the shooting.  He then fell in line with the other men to give proper I.D. & provided his contact details, both address and phone number to a 2nd officer.  Shelley then announced that the men could leave & resume work on Monday morning.  The men then left sometime around 13:30.  (Frazier's W.C. testimony.)

It is after this that the story, not just from Frazier, but also from DPD detectives Rose & Stovall as well as Detectives McCabe & McCarley of the Irving P.D. becomes a mish mash of times & events.  Was Frazier in Irving when Rose and Stovall arrived at the Randle house?  Or, was it Linnie May Randle who arrived home around 14:30 when Adamcik, Rose & Stovall arrived. 

Yet, we have Rose, Stovall & Adamcik at the Paine house with a report that a neighbour approached them at around 17:30 to say that her brother had driven LHO to work that morning and had seen him put a long brown package into the back seat of her brother's car.  Did this event actually take place?  Frazier insists no event took place.

Frazier has insisted he was arrested at the IPC by Rose & Stovall.  According to the official arrest record of the Irving P.D. McCabe & McCarley were contacted by Rose at 17:10, drove to the IPC & took Frazier into custody at 17:20. Rose & Stovall say they picked up Frazier at the Irving P.D. closer to 19:00.

Sort that out.

[David Von Pein]

5 hours ago, Alan Ford said:

We're supposed to believe that Mr. Oswald became a person of interest when he was noticed 'missing'. You would think that law enforcement would want to speak with the man who had given him a ride to work that morning and was universally considered his one friend in the place. But no, not a hint of Mr. Frazier's having received any attention at this stage.

Right after the shooting, the police weren't even aware that LHO rode to work with Frazier. So "at this stage", why would they have had any reason at all to single out Buell as a "person of interest"?

 

Edited November 10, 2023 by David Von Pein

[Pat Speer]

5 hours ago, Pete Mellor said:

On the 1st floor of the TSBD Frazier was questioned by a police officer about his whereabouts at the time of the shooting.  He then fell in line with the other men to give proper I.D. & provided his contact details, both address and phone number to a 2nd officer.  Shelley then announced that the men could leave & resume work on Monday morning.  The men then left sometime around 13:30.  (Frazier's W.C. testimony.)

It is after this that the story, not just from Frazier, but also from DPD detectives Rose & Stovall as well as Detectives McCabe & McCarley of the Irving P.D. becomes a mish mash of times & events.  Was Frazier in Irving when Rose and Stovall arrived at the Randle house?  Or, was it Linnie May Randle who arrived home around 14:30 when Adamcik, Rose & Stovall arrived. 

Yet, we have Rose, Stovall & Adamcik at the Paine house with a report that a neighbour approached them at around 17:30 to say that her brother had driven LHO to work that morning and had seen him put a long brown package into the back seat of her brother's car.  Did this event actually take place?  Frazier insists no event took place.

Frazier has insisted he was arrested at the IPC by Rose & Stovall.  According to the official arrest record of the Irving P.D. McCabe & McCarley were contacted by Rose at 17:10, drove to the IPC & took Frazier into custody at 17:20. Rose & Stovall say they picked up Frazier at the Irving P.D. closer to 19:00.

Sort that out.

When I put together a timeline on my website, it became clear the detectives arrived at the Paine House, and spoke to Randle, an hour before they claimed in their report. I suspect this extra time was added to make it look like they didn't know about the "bag" until after a "bag" was "found", when the reverse was true. When I went searching for the original hand-written reports moreover I received a surprise that is almost never discussed in the assassination literature. They don't exist. Apparently, the DPD officers submitting reports submitted them to Fritz's office, whereby a Fritz Lt. re-wrote them and typed them up to tell a semi-coherent story. IOW, the original statements were dooky-canned. Hmmm...I wonder what else was "fixed" or disappeared. 

[Tom Gram]

1 hour ago, Pat Speer said:

When I put together a timeline on my website, it became clear the detectives arrived at the Paine House, and spoke to Randle, an hour before they claimed in their report. I suspect this extra time was added to make it look like they didn't know about the "bag" until after a "bag" was "found", when the reverse was true. When I went searching for the original hand-written reports moreover I received a surprise that is almost never discussed in the assassination literature. They don't exist. Apparently, the DPD officers submitting reports submitted them to Fritz's office, whereby a Fritz Lt. re-wrote them and typed them up to tell a semi-coherent story. IOW, the original statements were dooky-canned. Hmmm...I wonder what else was "fixed" or disappeared. 

Not sure if relevant, but Linnie appears to have been telling the neighbors about the bag hours earlier - which is kind of interesting, IMO.

You probably know this story: two Irving Postal Inspectors interviewed the Schneiders “in the early evening”, and Mr. Schneider reported that Dorothy Roberts told him that 1) “Willie Randle” had driven Oswald to work that morning; 2) Oswald had a “large package” with him; and 3) that Willie Randle was the source of Roberts’ information. Schneider said he thought that Randle and Oswald were both employed at the TSBD. 

This is second-hand hearsay, and seems to be garbled, but someone definitely told Roberts about the bag - and it was almost certainly Linnie Randle since she was friends with Roberts. “Willie” could just be a garbled “Linnie”, and Schneider could have screwed up some of the details reported by Roberts.

The timing is also kind of interesting. We don’t have an exact time stamp, but the Inspectors went out to Irving around 4pm, stopped by the post office then went out to the neighborhood - so it is possible that Linnie strolled over to the Paines to tell on her brother at around the exact moment the Schneiders were being interviewed. I’m curious if she might have made a pit stop at the Schneider’s, found out they had just told authorities her husband was involved with Oswald and raced over to the Paines to correct the record. 

Incredibly, no one ever followed up with Mrs. Roberts about the hearsay report, at least officially. The Postal Inspectors relayed the report to the Secret Service, and the SS was still reporting that Bill Randle drove Oswald to work as late as Nov. 26th. 

https://digitalcollections-baylor.quartexcollections.com/Documents/Detail/dallas-texas-witnesses-police-district-attorney-and-postal-inspectors-harry-holmes/705263?item=705295

[Greg Doudna]

1 hour ago, Tom Gram said:

Not sure if relevant, but Linnie appears to have been telling the neighbors about the bag hours earlier - which is kind of interesting, IMO.

You probably know this story: two Irving Postal Inspectors interviewed the Schneiders “in the early evening”, and Mr. Schneider reported that Dorothy Roberts told him that 1) “Willie Randle” had driven Oswald to work that morning; 2) Oswald had a “large package” with him; and 3) that Willie Randle was the source of Roberts’ information. Schneider said he thought that Randle and Oswald were both employed at the TSBD. 

This is second-hand hearsay, and seems to be garbled, but someone definitely told Roberts about the bag - and it was almost certainly Linnie Randle since she was friends with Roberts. “Willie” could just be a garbled “Linnie”, and Schneider could have screwed up some of the details reported by Roberts.

The timing is also kind of interesting. We don’t have an exact time stamp, but the Inspectors went out to Irving around 4pm, stopped by the post office then went out to the neighborhood - so it is possible that Linnie strolled over to the Paines to tell on her brother at around the exact moment the Schneiders were being interviewed. I’m curious if she might have made a pit stop at the Schneider’s, found out they had just told authorities her husband was involved with Oswald and raced over to the Paines to correct the record. 

Incredibly, no one ever followed up with Mrs. Roberts about the hearsay report, at least officially. The Postal Inspectors relayed the report to the Secret Service, and the SS was still reporting that Bill Randle drove Oswald to work as late as Nov. 26th. 

https://digitalcollections-baylor.quartexcollections.com/Documents/Detail/dallas-texas-witnesses-police-district-attorney-and-postal-inspectors-harry-holmes/705263?item=705295

Tom this is interesting. But would not “Willie” Randle who the postmaster said Mrs. Roberts had told him had driven Oswald to work be, not Linnie, not Bill Randle, but a misunderstanding/mishearing of “Wesley” (Frazier)? The same postmaster “stated he understood both Randle and Oswald were employed by the Texas School Book Depository” (from the document of your link). Obviously a mistake for “Wesley” misheard as “Willie” (and mistakenly assumed last name was Randle) Its all an error in hearsay transmission and there never was any Bill Randle in this. 

[Pete Mellor]

Just in case you thought you had heard it all.

Also, never spoken of until Frazier told this on the Donald Jeffries American Unplugged Radio Podcast:-

Buell spoke of what happened after the shots were fired, "I can't remember exactly how long it was before I decided to walk down those steps."  Frazier recalled in 2023 to Nancy Weiford, "I think it finally hit me that Mr. Shelley and Billy had walked down the Elm Street extension."  Encouraged by the safe movement of others on the steps, he started heading toward the railroad yards in search of his two friends.  He hadn't even reached the double-gated chain-link fence where the depository mail truck was kept before he realised he had little chance to catch up with them in the crowd surging in the same direction.  Reluctantly he decided to return to the TSBD.  Frazier recalls that they had angled parking on the street in 1963.  Cars were parked in a row angled in a southeast direction.  Before he could turn around, he was suddenly startled by a man walking west and holding a rifle.  "He wasn't a policeman.  He was very well dressed.  Very fine quality, much more expensive than a policeman could afford.  Or the FBI and Secret Service dress code," he said.  Frazier did not reveal this information until he published his autobiography 'Steering Truth' in 2021.  He described the man as wearing light beige slacks with a white shirt and tie, light brown shoes, a brown coloured plaid tweed sports coat with a brown fedora.  Frazier said the man proceeded toward a parked car, opened the trunk and placed the rifle inside.  During that brief moment, Frazier also saw a pump shotgun resting there.  Almost on autopilot Frazier turned around and headed back to the TSBD.  He heard the car door open and close, the engine start and the car drive off.  "I couldn't make sense of what I'd seen.  I somehow put it out of my mind."  In fact he was so flustered that it never occurred to him to alert a policeman.  He didn't consider yelling out to anyone.  He also says the memory remained suppressed until just a few years before he started to write his autobiography.  (From Nancy Weiford's article in the 60th anniversary edition of DPUK's 'Dealey Plaza Echo'.) 

[Pete Mellor]

33 minutes ago, Greg Doudna said:

Obviously a mistake for “Wesley” misheard as “Willie” (and mistakenly assumed last name was Randle) Its all an error in hearsay transmission and there never was any Bill Randle in this. 

Maybe Roberts saw Bill Randle and his co-worker Berry Caster.  They were together at Westbrook on Friday morning before making a 200 mile road trip to Austin.