CIA presence on 11/22/63

[Benjamin Cole]

3 hours ago, Gerry Down said:

Thanks for that link.

I wonder what were the names of the other CIA officers in the Dallas field office.

He is always mentioned in the singular. I mean, after all, this was Dallas, a medium-sized city in the 1960s, far from any coastline. One might wonder why the CIA had anyone in Dallas at all. 

[Gerry Down]

14 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

He is always mentioned in the singular. I mean, after all, this was Dallas, a medium-sized city in the 1960s, far from any coastline. One might wonder why the CIA had anyone in Dallas at all. 

Domestic contacts. Alot of oil people going abroad. They would be useful for spying on their foreign trips.

[Paul Brancato]

It seems to me that we are missing the implications of Vince’s post here. First of all, why the back and forth about agents vs assets? Clearly the secret service officer identified him as an agent with ID. So why was he there? Then there is the FBI agent who is identified in the YouTube video as trying to get into the operating theater. Did I get that right Vince? You speculate he may have planted 399. 
here is the question I have for you Vince - who drew the guns that forced the Parkland doctors to give up the body of JFK? Was it Secret Service? If so who, and under whose orders? We know the story of LBJ ordering this by telephone, but If LBJ did order it, who carried it out? And isn’t it possible that LBJ was ordered by parties unknown to do so? 

[Paul Brancato]

11 hours ago, Keven Hofeling said:

Something that to me seems relevant to this conversation...

 

HOW THE CIA CIRCUMVENTS THE RESTRICTION AGAINST CIA COVERT ACTIVITIES WITHIN THE UNITED STATES:

The CIA has been known to flagrantly violate the domestic operations restriction and has -- or at the very least in the 1970's 'had' -- a program which entailed the CIA keeping four U.S. criminal defense attorneys on retainer to defend CIA agents and assets who happened to be criminally charged for crimes committed in the context of CIA covert actions undertaken within the United States (covert actions which, of course, are forbidden by the CIA charter). The program was known as "Index Four", and was the means by which the Watergate burglars and mafia chieftains such as Trafficante and Giancana -- who had collaborated with the CIA on its kill Castro operations -- had obtained their legal counsel, and which is how F. Lee Bailey was designated to represent Watergate burglar and CIA agent James McCord and mafia don Santo Trafficante during the period of the Watergate hearings in the early 1970's. Attorney Daniel Sheehan had learned about Index Four (as well as about the "S-Force" that executed President Kennedy [See below]) during a brief period in 1973 when F. Lee Bailey had hired him to assist with the defense of James McCord.

 

I have cued up the video lecture for you to the segment at which Professor Daniel Sheehan describes Index Four at 28:05 via the following link:

 

_______________

RE: THE S-FORCE

 

In 1960, once VP Richard Nixon came to believe he was going to win the presidential election and decided to send a hit squad after Castro, he called upon Howard Hughes on whose behalf Robert Mayheu contacted Johnny Roselli who contacted Santo Trafficante (because Trafficante was the Don over Cuba). Trafficante insisted upon proof that VP Nixon was authorizing it, so Nixon sent the CIA Chief of Security to a meeting with Trafficante and Roselli to confirm. They then assembled a 15-man team made up of anti-Castro Cuban mercenaries, Italian organized crime assassins (who had worked for Trafficante in Cuba), CIA operatives (such as Howard Hunt, Bernard Barker, Frank Sturgis, David Morales, etc.) and special forces operators. This "S-Force" was funded by a skim off Las Vegas casinos, and was trained on U.S. military bases and Clint Murchison's ranch in Mexico to conduct triangulated crossfire ambush assassinations, and they were deployed to conduct such an operation against the President of the United States during the weekend of November 22, 1963. This information is primarily derived from what attorney Daniel Sheehan has divulged about the attorney/client privileged communications between Santo Trafficante and F. Lee Bailey while Bailey was representing them on CIA retainer during the period of the Watergate Hearings. Video is queued to 45:39 where Professor Sheehan describes Santo Trafficante's confidential attorney-client privileged explanation of the relationship between Operation 40 and the "S-Force" which was originally constituted under the auspices of VP Nixon to off Castro, but was instead ultimately deployed to assassinate President Kennedy:

 

 

Also see detailed account of the origins of the S-Force as presented in Daniel Sheehan's autobiography via the following link:

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/politicalassassinationsresearchgroup/posts/6787297377992940/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I really appreciate you posting this. Sheehan gets little love from the assassination community at large, which has always puzzled me. In your synopsis you state that Nixon sent the CIA chief of security to meet with Trafficante. Is he identified?

[Roger Odisio]

4 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

It seems to me that we are missing the implications of Vince’s post here. First of all, why the back and forth about agents vs assets? Clearly the secret service officer identified him as an agent with ID. So why was he there? Then there is the FBI agent who is identified in the YouTube video as trying to get into the operating theater. Did I get that right Vince? You speculate he may have planted 399. 
here is the question I have for you Vince - who drew the guns that forced the Parkland doctors to give up the body of JFK? Was it Secret Service? If so who, and under whose orders? We know the story of LBJ ordering this by telephone, but If LBJ did order it, who carried it out? And isn’t it possible that LBJ was ordered by parties unknown to do so? 

These seem like pretty easy questions to answer, Paul. Starting with the last one, given what we know and with just an inkling of who Johnson was, it is next to impossible that someone else ordered Johnson to grab the body for a trip to DC.

Jack Valenti was sitting next to him when he gave the order.  In his 1980s memoir Valenti referred to Johnson's order as his first important decision as president.  He didn't mention Johnson taking a call from someone else before giving the order (Granted, it could be argued Valenti wouldn't have mentioned it if he had known of such a call)

The Oswald framing as part of the coverup had already begun. Soon his White Situation Room would be telling the passengers on Air Force One that the killer had ben caught and he acted alone (read: no matter what you think you saw in Dallas, don't interfere). 

Even if the presidency had fallen into Johnson's lap without his prior knowledge (extremely unlikely, I think), he would have quickly realized that control of the autopsy was important.  It could not be left to the local folks in Dallas.  Above all else, the public must be reassured that everything was all right. No loose ends must appear to cast doubt on the story already being told.

The order was carried out by whomever Johnson left in charge at the hospital when he took off to the plane.  

[Chuck Schwartz]

In 1962 there was a department in the CIA  called Domestic Operations, and per this Wikipedia artiicle, Traacy Barnes was  head of Domestic Operations in 1962..

Charles Tracy Barnes (August 2, 1911 – February 18, 1972) was a senior staff member at the United States' Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), serving as principal manager of CIA operations in the 1954 Guatemalan coup d'état and the 1961 Bay of Pigs Invasion.

History[edit]

Tracy was born in Manhasset, Long Island, New York to Courtlandt Dixon Barnes and Katherine Lansing Barney. He was educated at Groton School and Yale University, where he became a member of the Scroll and Key secret society^[when?]. He graduated from Harvard Law School in 1937 and was hired by William Harding Jackson as an associate (1937-1939) at the Wall Street firm of Carter, Ledyard & Milburn.^[1][2]

As World War II began, Barnes was commissioned as a 2nd Lieutenant and was one of the first persons to attend the US Army-Air Forces Air Combat Intelligence School at Harrisburg, PA in June 1942 along with his '2nd cousin' John Hay 'Jock' Whitney. Barnes was married to Janet who was born June 10, 1913, in Providence, Rhode Island. At the Intelligence School, they began a lifelong friendship with the Whitneys. When Jock Whitney served as US Ambassador to Great Britain, Barnes served as CIA station chief in London.^[3]

During World War II he served first with United States Army Air Forces intelligence with the Office of Strategic Services. He was awarded France's Croix de Guerre and the US Silver Star. After the war, he returned to legal practice.^[4]

CIA career[edit]

In 1950 he went to Washington to serve as special assistant to Under Secretary of the Army, Archibald S. Alexander. He also served as deputy director of the Psychological Strategy Board during the Korean War.

In 1951 he joined the CIA. In 1953, he was appointed Special Assistant for Paramilitary Psychological Operations, under Frank Wisner, and was the principal case officer in the CIA operation leading up to the 1954 Guatemalan coup d'état.^[5]

From 1954 to 1956, he was appointed Chief Of Station (COS) in Germany and in the United Kingdom from 1957 to 1959.

In 1960, he was appointed Assistant Deputy Director for Plans, under Richard M. Bissell Jr., with direct responsibility for the CIA operation leading to the Bay of Pigs Invasion in April 1961.^[6][7][8]

In 1962, he was made head of the CIA's Domestic Operations Division.

[Ron Bulman]

1 hour ago, Chuck Schwartz said:

In 1962 there was a department in the CIA  called Domestic Operations, and per this Wikipedia artiicle, Traacy Barnes was  head of Domestic Operations in 1962..

Charles Tracy Barnes (August 2, 1911 – February 18, 1972) was a senior staff member at the United States' Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), serving as principal manager of CIA operations in the 1954 Guatemalan coup d'état and the 1961 Bay of Pigs Invasion.

History[edit]

Tracy was born in Manhasset, Long Island, New York to Courtlandt Dixon Barnes and Katherine Lansing Barney. He was educated at Groton School and Yale University, where he became a member of the Scroll and Key secret society^[when?]. He graduated from Harvard Law School in 1937 and was hired by William Harding Jackson as an associate (1937-1939) at the Wall Street firm of Carter, Ledyard & Milburn.^[1][2]

As World War II began, Barnes was commissioned as a 2nd Lieutenant and was one of the first persons to attend the US Army-Air Forces Air Combat Intelligence School at Harrisburg, PA in June 1942 along with his '2nd cousin' John Hay 'Jock' Whitney. Barnes was married to Janet who was born June 10, 1913, in Providence, Rhode Island. At the Intelligence School, they began a lifelong friendship with the Whitneys. When Jock Whitney served as US Ambassador to Great Britain, Barnes served as CIA station chief in London.^[3]

During World War II he served first with United States Army Air Forces intelligence with the Office of Strategic Services. He was awarded France's Croix de Guerre and the US Silver Star. After the war, he returned to legal practice.^[4]

CIA career[edit]

In 1950 he went to Washington to serve as special assistant to Under Secretary of the Army, Archibald S. Alexander. He also served as deputy director of the Psychological Strategy Board during the Korean War.

In 1951 he joined the CIA. In 1953, he was appointed Special Assistant for Paramilitary Psychological Operations, under Frank Wisner, and was the principal case officer in the CIA operation leading up to the 1954 Guatemalan coup d'état.^[5]

From 1954 to 1956, he was appointed Chief Of Station (COS) in Germany and in the United Kingdom from 1957 to 1959.

In 1960, he was appointed Assistant Deputy Director for Plans, under Richard M. Bissell Jr., with direct responsibility for the CIA operation leading to the Bay of Pigs Invasion in April 1961.^[6][7][8]

In 1962, he was made head of the CIA's Domestic Operations Division.

Chuck, are you implying Barnes could have been in Dallas overseeing an operation as head of the CIA's DOD and wanted to personally confirm the results?

[Gerry Down]

24 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

Chuck, are you implying Barnes could have been in Dallas overseeing an operation as head of the CIA's DOD and wanted to personally confirm the results?

This was discussed on the forum a while back. As far as I know, the DOD and DCD were in two different parts of the CIA and therefore Barnes was not Moore's boss. The head of the DCD at HQ was Ashcroft I believe.

[Larry Hancock]

Gerry is right, we keep going over and over this and there have been some really good posts on it...hopefully those interested will pick them up again....the last round was only a few months ago.

To recap a couple of other points we have discussed in the past....JFK's Doctor admitted that he felt he had forced the issue of taking the body because he told some of the SS agents that Jackie insisted on staying with the body and she was in no condition to do that and the agents were taking this all quite personally at that point in time and followed his lead and were going to take the body and her back to DC - regardless.

As to Domestic Ops, the CIA has always been authorized to collect information inside the US in regard to foreign affairs and on foreign targets of intelligence interests...meaning they have routinely interviewed business travelers, academics working or studying overseas, and for that matter CEOs running international companies.  They have had public offices in major cities, especially as was pointed out above, in cities with a good bit of international business or where international companies operate.

These issues come up over and over here - with some excellent posts and threads - and I suppose they will continue to do so - perhaps we need an AI to recover the threads and respond to key words...grin.

 

Edited January 8 by Larry Hancock

[Paul Brancato]

10 hours ago, Larry Hancock said:

Gerry is right, we keep going over and over this and there have been some really good posts on it...hopefully those interested will pick them up again....the last round was only a few months ago.

To recap a couple of other points we have discussed in the past....JFK's Doctor admitted that he felt he had forced the issue of taking the body because he told some of the SS agents that Jackie insisted on staying with the body and she was in no condition to do that and the agents were taking this all quite personally at that point in time and followed his lead and were going to take the body and her back to DC - regardless.

As to Domestic Ops, the CIA has always been authorized to collection information inside the US in regard to foreign affairs and on foreign targets of intelligence interests...meaning they have routinely interviewed business travelers, academics working or studying overseas, and for that matter CEOs running international companies.  They have had public offices in major cities, especially as was pointed out above, in cities with a good bit of international business or where international companies operate.

These issues come up over and over here - with some excellent posts and threads - and I suppose they will continue to do so - perhaps we need an AI to recover the threads and respond to key words...grin.

 

Larry - thanks for straightening me out about JFK’s doctor being behind the forceful removal of JFK’s body from Parkland. 

[Chuck Schwartz]

Ron, yes, see pages 491 -508 in Coup in Dallas (it is a separate essay by Alan Kent), This essay implied the Lafitte received guidance/ approval from Tracy Barnes.

[Gerry Down]

For anyone interested in the whole Tracy Barnes DOD thing, here is the recent Education Forum thread it was discussed on. 

https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/29320-finally-proof-charles-tracy-barnes-was-the-cia-chief-of-domestic-operations-division-support/page/4/

I think the way DOD and DCD were distinguished from one another was that DOD established domestic "covers" for foreign operations - which was actually one of Barnes' long time specialties and possibly the reason he was given the assignment. And DCD identified and maintained contacts with American's with international contacts or those traveling abroad who could be used as sources or assets. 

On these pages of that thread:

https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/29320-finally-proof-charles-tracy-barnes-was-the-cia-chief-of-domestic-operations-division-support/page/7/

https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/29320-finally-proof-charles-tracy-barnes-was-the-cia-chief-of-domestic-operations-division-support/page/8/

I made the case that in and around 1963 the DOD was in the Directorate of Plans while the DCD was in the Directorate of Intelligence. Now how that translated to how the DOD and DCD were physically separated in Langley I don't know. Barnes and Ashcroft could have had a desk on either side of the same partition for all i know. Though i think i read recently that DCD was in its own separate building, at least by the 1970s (In Search of Enemies by John Stockwell). But with regard to 1963, i don't know how they were separated.  

Edited January 8 by Gerry Down

[Paul Brancato]

9 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

Larry - thanks for straightening me out about JFK’s doctor being behind the forceful removal of JFK’s body from Parkland. 

Did any secret service agents testify to removing JFK from Parkland at gunpoint? 

[Larry Hancock]

No, I don't recall it even being a question for the WC.  Dr. Burkley's remarks were independent of that, as far as the WC was concerned it was focused on security for the motorcade, the SS itself focused on Lawson's report in regard to security.  The only related inquiries had to do with the Cellar visit, some aspects of the hotel security in Fort Worth and of course the action of the agents during the motorcade and the shooting.

Burkley also expressed in one oral history that his view was that there was no legal justification for an immediate postmortem in Dallas as that would need to be authorized by the family (which is was at Bethesda) or by the Court. 

...........................

BURKLEY: There again it is not entered by any of the Dallas people, and I came back
to Mrs. Kennedy and said, “The President is dead.” And we went over to
the President and we said the prayers for the dead and various other things
which have been recorded elsewhere, I believe.
McHUGH: Did the doctors there at that time then attempt to perform a postmortem?
BURKLEY: The coroner attempted to have the body retained there for a postmortem
and investigation of the assassination. That was perfectly understandable,
in that this condition existed. However, the people involved were not just
anyone, it was the President of the United States. Mrs. Kennedy was going to stay just where she was and travel with the President at any time. It was felt advisable to return the President to the Washington area as
soon as possible because of the uncertainty as to what else was happening in Dallas.
McHUGH: Did any of the doctors there at that time then attempt to begin
postmortem procedures?
BURKLEY: Of course not. First place, postmortem would have to be either authorized
by a member of the family or ordered by the court.
McHUGH: This was not normally a procedure that they would automatically perform?
BURKLEY: In no way.

https://www.jfklibrary.org/sites/default/files/archives/JFKOH/Burkley%2C George G/JFKOH-GGB-01/JFKOH-GGB-01-TR.pdf

 

Edited January 8 by Larry Hancock

[Paul Brancato]

Burkley: ‘The coroner attempted to have the body retained there for a postmortem and investigation of the assassination. That was perfectly understandable, in that this condition existed. However, the people involved were not just anyone, it was the President of the United States. Mrs. Kennedy was going to just stay where she was and travel with the President at any time. It was felt advisable to return the President to the Washington area as soon as possible because of the uncertainty as to what else was happening in Dallas’. 
This interview from 1967, done for the historical record and donated to the JFK library, does not mention the struggle at gunpoint to take the body from Parkland onto AF 1. It does not appear to be under oath, is not questioning by an investigatory committee. And it doesn’t say what you originally suggested it did. Burkley’s exact language here appears very carefully constructed, does it not?