The Future of the Education Forum

[Paz Marverde]

7 hours ago, David Josephs said:

"With all due respect" is as offensive as "trust me" and carries as much meaning.  None.

"Due" respect is completely subjective... A backhanded insult in reality...  You see that, right?

When capital "t" is more important than the content of his post Or the subject at hand... Who is showing the disrespect ?

Without the expectation and enforcement of intellectual honesty, what is the basis for moderation?  A bad word or ongoing trolling of a topic?  Opinions stated as fact or spelling/grammar?

Free speech in a membership setting Still requires the expectation of respect with intelligent disagreement... Setting up a soapbox in every thread to scream "the Russians did it" and then provide nothing but the color of the soapbox brings everyone down...

Agree with you, David

[David Josephs]

1 hour ago, Paz Marverde said:

Agree with you, David

[James R Gordon]

This morning I noted that there were 762 reads of the thread and 13 responses - and that included the multiple responses by two members who used the thread to continue their own discussions. It would appear that the majority of members who read the thread do not share my views and have ignored the thread. In all good conscience I cannot accept remaining with the status quo and all the issues that has provoked and also be expected to fund this forum - as I have done for a number of years. I will stop payments to Invision after April 4th. That means this forum is funded until May 11th - approximately 7 weeks. What happens now to the EF is for the membership to decide.

[Thomas Graves]

1 hour ago, James R Gordon said:

This morning I noted that there were 762 reads of the thread and 13 responses - and that included the multiple responses by two members who used the thread to continue their own discussions. It would appear that the majority of members who read the thread do not share my views and have ignored the thread. In all good conscience I cannot accept remaining with the status quo and all the issues that has provoked and also be expected to fund this forum - as I have done for a number of years. I will stop payments to Invision after April 4th. That means this forum is funded until May 11th - approximately 7 weeks. What happens now to the EF is for the membership to decide.

 

James,

Thanks for the heads up.

How much will it cost to keep it going?

Thanks,

--  Tommy 

PS  Honest question:  If I make a sizable donation, would you promise to keep it a secret?

 

 

Edited March 19, 2018 by Thomas Graves

[Chris Scally]

James:

There may be many people who will respond after the weekend (especially this weekend, with St. Patrick's Day AND a rugby Gland Slam AND Rory McIlroy winning the golf tournament in the USA last night AND a Bank Holiday today here in Ireland!), so perhaps giving them a little more time before deciding to let it slip into obscurity might hopefully elicit more responses. I - for one - would certainly be extremely sorry to see the demise of this Forum.

For myself, my slow response was partly due to the fact that I was trying to figure out how to get the IGNORE facility to work, which Michael Clark kindly explained to us a few hours ago (Thanks, Michael). As a result, I have set a few people to IGNORE status, and if that works, and if others were to follow suit, the people concerned might begin to get the message that their vitriolic and (in a few cases) foul, potty-mouthed contributions are neither appreciated nor wanted.

In terms of your own comments and your point of view, I totally agree with you, and I think Mark Knight's words were also very well chosen. The English language is a very rich and powerful one, but it is also flexible to the point where unscrupulous people can say one thing while clearly meaning another. So I totally agree - language IS important, as is respect for the POV of others, and indeed RESPECT as a general concept. Sadly, this is not the only Forum where the most basic standards of human decency to one's fellow man (and woman) have slid to an level which is unacceptable to many of us. However, the level of moderation needed to control the few are totally beyond the level that we, the membership, should ask of you and your team. Accordingly, I would recommend wholeheartedly that those of us who are interested in intelligent and civil discourse on the true subject matter of this Forum (as opposed to some of the totally insane theories which are sometimes peddled here and elsewhere) consider the simple option of ignoring all posts from those who seek to bring this Forum to its knees. To allow the Forum to close is to allow the keyboard bullies and loonies to get exactly what they wanted in the first place, and I would hate to think that we allowed that to happen through our inaction.

Just my tuppence worth !!!

Chris

 

 

[Paul Brancato]

Mr. Gordon - I can understand how it feels when you ask for a discussion on the future of the forum, and whether members feel that language matters, and you get posters positioning themselves, or bickering with each other rather than addressing your questions. 

Can we all agree to address each other with the names we prefer to be called? Can we agree to try to let go of past slights? Can we ignore those we still don’t wish to engage with, and keep our public discussions free of personal attacks? 

 

[Thomas Graves]

16 minutes ago, Kathy Beckett said:

Thomas, i think it more had to do with this, which he asked yesterday,

"I want to make one more comment today. Mark Knight is right we do all have other commitments - though not the demands that Mark has from the needs of his family member. And I usually rely on members reporting rather than actively monitoring this site

Mark is a much more restrained admin member than I. Many is the time he has counselled me from positions I wanted to take. Aside from Mark and Paul, I want to hear if there actually are members who also feel that the use of language is important in the quality of discussion. I honestly am not sure the general membership feel it is important and one member has already insulted me and this thread.

So I would like to know, am I the only one who is concerned?" 

 

 

Kathy,

Thank you.  I realize that yours and James' responsibilities (and those of the other persons with official roles at The Forum) must be very stressful and time-consuming.

Regardless, this is the part of James' post that I was referring to:

"I cannot accept remaining with the status quo and all the issues that has provoked and also be expected to fund this forum - as I have done for a number of years. I will stop payments to Invision after April 4th. That means this forum is funded until May 11th - approximately 7 weeks. What happens now to the EF is for the membership to decide."

--  TG 

Edited March 19, 2018 by Thomas Graves

[Andrej Stancak]

Thanks, James and all moderators, for keeping this Forum going. I did not answer the question whether the manners and language matter because I am a relatively new member and thought that senior members should speak first. Of course, the language does matter.

This Forum is extremely important for the entire JFK assassination research and should continue. As per donations, I have tried to make a donation about a month ago but I was not successful - some glitch in the software?

The language in our posts is important. It is every Forum member's duty to learn how to disagree. Politeness, ability to admit the conditioned and only probable value of every (even own) statement, and addressing substantial questions are needed. Some Forum members take this Forum as a kind of FaceBook and spend basically their whole waking day on the Forum, answering compulsively to any thread. After a very short time, their messages become shallow and have no substance. They then often revert to a very personal, intrusive style of posting. 

This Forum could be much better if people consider the value of their post first.  Posting less may improve the quality of the posts of many members. Posting less would also give more time to the frequent posters for own research and elaboration of topics. 

Again, please let us know how could standard members help in keeping this Forum to be a place where knowledge and information on a delicate topic is exchanged freely.  My recommendation would be that, besides language, less posting and observing the content and objective of own posts could be a way forward.

 

[Thomas Graves]

43 minutes ago, Kathy Beckett said:

Yes, i understand that, but can you answer the question he is asking? That is what he really wants. That's why he's throwing in the towel.

Kathy,

Well, in an attempt to get some clarification from Mark Knight (whose e-mail or PM James quoted in an earlier post), I sent a PM to Mark, but I've yet to hear back from him.

Regardless, I hope that you've noticed that I've been a bit less cynical, sarcastic, t-r-o-l-l -like, etc. during the past 24 hours or so, and that Paul B. has actually complemented me on that.

Thank you,

--  TG 

EDIT:  OOPS, I JUST NOW CHECKED AND FOUND OUT THAT MY "IN BOX" IS FULL.  WILL DELETE SOME OLDER PMs PRONTO!

Edited March 19, 2018 by Thomas Graves

[Ron Ecker]

I too believe that language matters. I believe in polite and civil discussion, and have been slow to respond because I don't know what else to say. Such belief should go without saying, the question is what to do when a poster simply doesn't share that belief.

I almost left the forum once due to one poster's vile statements and accusations directed at me with impunity (about matters not even related to JFK). The offender left at some point thereafter, apparently of his own accord. Parting is such sweet sorrow.

Some moderation seems necessary. (I believe in "moderation in all things.") Perhaps if other forum members would promptly call out a poster for being impolite and uncivil, that would solve the problem without having to depend on otherwise busy moderators. Perhaps a motto of the forum in this respect should be "nip it in the bud." If a poster ignores the admonitions of fellow members, treating such admonitions as no more than personal attacks deserving the same, then moderators should take action.

 

 

 

[Thomas Graves]

27 minutes ago, Ron Ecker said:

I too believe that language matters. I believe in polite and civil discussion, and have been slow to respond because I don't know what else to say. Such belief should go without saying, the question is what to do when a poster simply doesn't share that belief.

I almost left the forum once due to one poster's vile statements and accusations directed at me with impunity (about matters not even related to JFK). The offender left at some point thereafter, apparently of his own accord. Parting is such sweet sorrow.

Some moderation seems necessary. (I believe in "moderation in all things.") Perhaps if other forum members would promptly call out a poster for being impolite and uncivil, that would solve the problem without having to depend on otherwise busy moderators. Perhaps a motto of the forum in this respect should be "nip it in the bud." If a poster ignores the admonitions of fellow members, treating such admonitions as no more than personal attacks deserving the same, then moderators should take action.

 

Ron,

 

I agree with you, totally.

"Very well-spoken, sir" if I do say so, myself.

 

One could only hope that a member whose political and JFK assassination views are radically contrary to the vast majority's here would be able to "call out" the rudeness and/or incivilities which other members, even "highly respected, perhaps published" members may direct at him or her either on a continuous basis or as a one time "hit and run" attack, without incurring the communicated wrath of like-minded members.

 

--  TG   

Edited March 19, 2018 by Thomas Graves

[Paul Brancato]

48 minutes ago, Ron Ecker said:

I too believe that language matters. I believe in polite and civil discussion, and have been slow to respond because I don't know what else to say. Such belief should go without saying, the question is what to do when a poster simply doesn't share that belief.

I almost left the forum once due to one poster's vile statements and accusations directed at me with impunity (about matters not even related to JFK). The offender left at some point thereafter, apparently of his own accord. Parting is such sweet sorrow.

Some moderation seems necessary. (I believe in "moderation in all things.") Perhaps if other forum members would promptly call out a poster for being impolite and uncivil, that would solve the problem without having to depend on otherwise busy moderators. Perhaps a motto of the forum in this respect should be "nip it in the bud." If a poster ignores the admonitions of fellow members, treating such admonitions as no more than personal attacks deserving the same, then moderators should take action.

 

 

 

Thanks Ron, or Mr. Ecker if you prefer. 

Mr. Graves - my bet is that Mr. Ecker would agree that all of us should expect to be treated with civility, and without sarcasm.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Paul Brancato said:

Mr. Gordon - I can understand how it feels when you ask for a discussion on the future of the forum, and whether members feel that language matters, and you get posters positioning themselves, or bickering with each other rather than addressing your questions. 

Can we all agree to address each other with the names we prefer to be called? Can we agree to try to let go of past slights? Can we ignore those we still don’t wish to engage with, and keep our public discussions free of personal attacks? 

 

The problem with that is, the utter disdain has already been well-established.  The discussion as to whether "language matters" would be more relevant if one were starting from scratch.  When one Senator whom everyone knows despises another Senator rises and says "If I may interrupt my esteemed colleague ..." it's exactly like "With all due respect ..."  Everyone knows he means "I can't take another second of this fool I completely despise ..."

The real problem is not the language but the disdain.  The disdain exists primarily, I believe, because the various JFK assassination theories, including the Lone Nut theory, have become fundamentalist religions, pure and simple.  You are asking an assembly of fanatical Roman Catholics, Mormons, Southern Baptists, Jehovah's Witnesses and Russian Orthodox to "play nice."  Take my word for it, they don't and they never will.  They might maintain a facade for some short period, but the differences and disdain are too deep to keep a lid on for long.  When you then factor in that the "assembly" we're talking about is an internet forum, I do not believe any solution will be anything more than a very short-term one.

I pointed out to James that I participate on a Christian site where the membership is quite small, everyone theoretically is a Christian and 97% of them are very conservative Protestants, and the discussions are very closely moderated - yet it is the inevitable bloodbath of feuds, insults, warnings, closed threads, banned members and all the rest.  So good luck here.

[Roger DeLaria]

As others have stated so well, I believe language matters, as does intent. That being said, I would like to see the forum continue, with the diversity of thoughts on the assassination, whether I agree or not.

[Steve Thomas]

2 hours ago, Chris Scally said:

Accordingly, I would recommend wholeheartedly that those of us who are interested in intelligent and civil discourse on the true subject matter of this Forum (as opposed to some of the totally insane theories which are sometimes peddled here and elsewhere) consider the simple option of ignoring all posts from those who seek to bring this Forum to its knees.

Amen.

 

Steve Thomas