Joe Bauer

MC, put yourself in Greer's place. You're hearing shots. Maybe even felt them coming into the car? You hear JFK call out in distress. You turn around while still driving and see that your president has been hit as well as the governor of Texas. If all that doesn't shake you up to the point of freezing...what would? If I'm driving the limo and all this is happening around me, I'm going to let up on the gas. I can only imagine what was going on in Greer's head as he turns his head around and directly facing JFK, sees his head explode into a bloody mass of 6 foot high pink spray. And hearing Jackie Kennedy cry out loud enough for the Newmans 15 ft. away on the grassy knoll sidewalk to hear her..."OH MY GOD THEY'VE SHOT JACK!"

My point about Greer slowing the limo was simply because he had turned his head and upper body 180 degrees backwards to look at JFK right after the first shot. And he stayed looking back at JFK for at least a full second...right through the head shot. It is a natural reaction to ease up on the gas pedal when you are the driver of a car ( especially one as big, heavy and cumbersome as the presidential limo) and you aren't just distracted "a little" in your forward driving focus... you are "totally" distracted by turning your head, body 180 degrees looking behind you and you aren't even seeing the road ahead of you. If I'm driving 10 to 15 miles an hour and turn my body to look behind me of course I'm going to ease up on the pedal as a natural caution reaction. Jenkins is quoted describing JFK's brain stem being cut in a way that was not typical...but my question is did Jenkins actually see either Humes or Boswell doing the cut? Same thing with a cutting of the temporal muscles and eye nerves at the front of JFK's brain so the brain could be removed without those attachments holding it back? I would ask Jenkins if he personally witnessed those two cutting procedures as well. And by whom? Jenkins mentions Humes spontaneous surprise blurt out upon removing JFK's brain from the cranium..."the damn thing just fell into my hands." Why would Humes be so surprised? If he had already cut the brain stem, the eye nerves, the temporal muscles and much of the sheath covering the brain... all connective tissue that holds back the brain, wouldn't he expect JFK's brain to come out easily? I thought Hubert Clark mentioned LeMay as saying the "that's not my commander in chief" comment. I'll go back. I don't think LeMay was in that landed plane, casket movement scene. It was general McHugh that Clark quoted...I stand corrected. Perhaps McHUGH meant that JFK was his commander in chief...not that MFer Lyndon Johnson?

Don't know how to access Twitter. Ms. Spencer, could you share this "knock your socks off" news about this guy A. P. Aispuro on the forum?

I've viewed this video probably two or three times in the past. Jenkins states he doesn't believe the brain he saw was that of JFK. Wow! I would have asked Jenkins if he witnessed Humes or Boswell actually cutting the brain stem of the brain? Jenkins stated that Humes just blurted out when holding what was supposedly JFK's brain that "the damn thing just fell into my hands!"? Former military honor guard ( army, navy or marine? ) and former 22 year New York PD detective Hubert Clark mentioned he and his team being aggressively pushed away from carrying the big ornate and heavy bronze Dallas casket off the tarmac elevator and how he felt there was a nefarious reason for this action. That in his opinion the casket was empty. He also mentioned an ominous statement General Godfrey McHugh said in the bustle of getting the bronze casket off the plane and into the waiting grey navy ambulance. Something about "this is my commander in chief...not that MFer." ? What in the world was that about? Hubert Clark was not given the chance to go back and elaborate on that part of his story. In just viewing and listening to the question part of the talk, I noticed Judyth Vary Baker was one of the questioners. And I believe I recognized the voice of James Fetzer as one of the questioners as well? My take on Jenkin's take was that he believed there was some nefarious doings with JFK's body besides what he witnessed of Humes's autopsy. Jenkins mentioned seeing saw marks in JFK's skull that were not made by Humes or Boswell. Jenkins thinks Paul O'Conner may have been wrong in his recollections of JFK's brain being essentially just a macerated mess of goo. With Paul O'Conner perhaps mistakenly effected by the shock of the whole scene? Disagree with Jenkins on that point. Interesting that the one deposition Jenkins was ordered to give was so argumentatively presented he eventually walked out! Bomb shell presentation.

I always wondered why there wasn't more of a flap about the flap. Now, notice in the enlarged flap blowout pics you posted MC ( all 3 ) how SS agent limo driver Will Greer is turned fully around and looking "directly" at JFK all during the head shot hit and skull explosion. He told the Warren Commission he turned back around before this. These film clips prove otherwise. Also, you don't turn your head and upper body 180 degrees and look in back of yourself while driving a 6 to 7,000 pound moving vehicle without letting up on the gas pedal. Greer did just that. Hence the limo almost stopping right before the JFK head shot.

Thank you Michael Crane! Does that look like a back of skull ( occipital ) blowout? This close up shows a powerful explosion of blood and matter emanating from an area above and slightly to the right of JFK's right-side ear. To me anyway.

Wonder if one of our resident forum members who knows how to technically effect still frames of videos could get a close up of the one or two Z film ones that clearly depicts the upper right side JFK skull blowout flap as I described in my post above? It's clear to me but still so small in the view finder I could understand skeptics saying it's too hard to prove what exactly those frames show. A lot to ask of someone else's time and effort I know.

Showing the Zapruder film for the 8,550th time again but in regards to the actual JFK head wounds I ask that you go back to the very basic real time visual evidence and ask you to describe what "you" see? In the micro-second of the head shot I see a huge blowout of skull and scalp close to but just above and to the right of JFK's right-side ear! A major section of scalp and skull starting from just above the ear and continuing to a right-side temporal area. A huge piece blowout. I see this exploded out piece coming off as a "flap" of hair and bone. A flap that remained attached to JFK's skull. In the Z film one can easily see the pink spray cloud emanating from this blowout as well as the pink matter exposed underneath by the blowout. It is all brightly illuminated in the direct noon time sun. You can even see a "glistening" from all the blood and fluid that was just underneath the blown off skull. Now, how this upper right side skull blowout connects to or in any way contradicts a rear occipital blowout I cannot say. I do wonder however, if Jackie Kennedy may have pulled up the blown out "flap" on JFK's upper right-side head, to try to piece back together her husband's skull? What I see in the bright pink, bloody spray right of the ear blowout Z film footage confuses me. I my opinion it seems so obvious as to my blown off flap and it's location description being correct. Closest Dealey Plaza grassy knoll sidewalk bystander witness Bill Newman ( 15 feet away when the head shot occurred ) always described a much more upper right side of the skull blow out wound as I do. He said something like "we seen his ear blowed off." Which was specifically inaccurate upon close visual study, but was still far from describing a much farther back right rear blowout. Clint Hill described a large blowout hole farther back from JFK's right ear and with a large amount of brain matter missing from it's interior. And Hill was just inches away from JFK's head? Does anyone else here see the JFK skull flap blowout as I describe and it's just above but to the right of JFK's right side ear temporal location upon looking closely at the Z film below? And I have to assume that at least some of the Parkland doctors eventually viewed the Z film. If they did, they would clearly see this major brain matter exposing skull flap blow out above JFK's right ear, right? I would have liked to have viewed the Z film with them and asked them what they think they were seeing in regards to it? 0:33 NOW PLAYING Zapruder Film Restored HD

I second that question. J. Edgar H. ... correct?

Dazzle and Debut tended to Lancer and Lace? Dagger tended to Volunteer in the Varsity? Dusty remained in the halfback? Digest was in the SS 100 X? Where was Deacon during the Dealey Plaza debacle? And where the heck were Domino and Duplex? Back in DC? Deciphering all those "D" letter code names was definitely discombobulating.

SECRET SERVICE CODE NAMES IN THE KENNEDY WHITE HOUSE These days, Secret Service communications are securely encrypted using state-of-the-art technology. But back before transparent encryption of day-to-day electronic communications was a practical reality, a layer of obfuscation was added by assigning code names to the first family, staffers, and locations. Assigned by the White House Communications Agency, these code names also provided a quick and efficient verbal short-hand. JFK’s Secret Service code name was LANCER. In general, subsets begin with a particular letter. L was for the Kennedy family, C for places and logistics, W for White House staff, D for Secret Service Agents, A for Air Force, V for the Vice President, and so on. Secret Service code names don’t usually turn up on the Kennedy tapes, but you can hear them being used in the very earliest Johnson tapes that captured communications from Air Force One as the newly sworn-in President Johnson flew back from Dallas to Washington DC on November 22, 1963. THE PRESIDENT AND HIS FAMILY LANCER President John F. Kennedy LACE Jackie Kennedy (First Lady) LYRIC Caroline Kennedy LARK John F. Kennedy Jr. THE VICE PRESIDENT AND HIS FAMILY VOLUNTEER Vice President Lyndon B. Johnson VICTORIA Lady Bird Johnson VELVET Lynda Bird Johnson VENUS Lucy Baines Johnson ADVISERS, AIDES, AND ADMINISTRATION OFFICIALS FREEDOM Dean Rusk, the Secretary of State WAND Kenny O’Donnell WILLOW Evelyn Lincoln, the President’s Personal Secretary WAYSIDE Pierre Salinger, the White House Press Secretary MARKET Dr. George Burkley, the President’s Personal Physician WATCHMAN General Chester Clifton, the President’s Military Aide SILVER Mr. Hays (Military Aides Office) WARRIOR Malcolm Kilduff WING General Godfrey McHugh, the President’s Air Force Aide WITNESS Captain Tazewell Shepard, the President’s Naval Aide TIGER Colonel James Swindal, the President’s Pilot TULIP MBGT Magan (Corky), the Presidential Pilot OFC VIGILANT Walter Jenkins TOURIST Major Brown (Military Aides Office) PLACES CASTLE The White House (Mansion plus East and West Wing) CROWN White House (Executive Mansion) CENTRAL The Old Executive Office Building CHARCOAL / BASE President’s Temporary Residence CABIN Kennedy Compound at Hyannis Port (Massachusetts) CACTUS Camp David HAMLET Auchincloss Home on O Street (Washington DC) CHATEAU President’s Home at Glen Ora (Virginia) CROSSROADS Middleburg (Virginia) VOLCANO LBJ Ranch (Texas) CALICO The Pentagon (Arlington, Virginia) / Defense Communications Agency CORK FBI Headquarters (Washington DC) TRANSPORTATION ANGEL Air Force One / Aircraft 26000 SS 100 X Presidential Limousine HALFBACK Presidential Follow-Up Car VARSITY Vice Presidential Follow-Up Car CARPET White House Garage ACROBAT Andrews Air Force Base (for Air Force One) ALPHA / CATER / PAT Army Helicopter Operations, Davison Field CHEER Helicopter Operations, Anacostia CADET Exec FLT Det, Davison Field NOMAD USN Honey Fitz, the Presidential Yacht NEPTUNE USN President Yacht #2 NIGHT HAWK Marine Copters, Anacostia NOVICE Crash Boat PT109 ROCKFISH Vice Presidential Speed Boat COMMUNICATIONS CASTLE Signal Corps Shops 26th Street SATCHEL Presidential Courier / Bagman SPECTATOR Gen. Sampson (Defense Communications Agency) SPUD Mr. Nash (Messenger Service White House) SUBWAY DO COMM CEN EAST END WH STAR Colonel George McNally, White House Communications Agency STURDY Art Bales, White House Communications Agency SHADOW Ira Gearhart, White House Communications Agency SECRET SERVICE AGENTS DOMINO James Rowley, Chief of the Secret Service DUPLEX Gerald Behn DEACON Floyd Boring DAZZLE Clint Hill, First Lady Detail DANDY Lem Johns DIGEST Roy Kellerman DAYLIGHT Jerry Kivett DEBUT Paul Landis DUSTY Emory Roberts DAGGER Rufus Youngblood DASHER Tom Wells DRESSER Bob Foster DRUMMER Lynn Meredith DRAGON Agent Campion DAPPER Mr. O’Leary (Muggsy) HERMIT Secret Service Field Office New York City OTHER AND UNIDENTIFIED SMOKEY SMAJ Duffy SUPER MBGT Giordano WINNER Mr. Hatcher Data Source: This list is compiled from ST448-1-62, Still Pictures, John F. Kennedy Library; and William Manchester, The Death of a President: November 20 – November 25, 1963 (New York: Harper & Row, 1967) pp.xv-xvi.

I'm sorry, but the above quote made me laugh out loud. Robenhalt helped Paul Landis ... "process his memories?" I pictured Robenhalt ( and a "helper/associate" ?) seating Landis down into a big, soft leather, back lowered recliner in a darkened room and saying: "Now Paul ... I want you to close your eyes. Close your eyes ... and relax." "Relax Paul ... that's it ... relax your mind" "That's it ... relaaax." "Now listen to the tick-tock of the clock on the wall Paul ... tick-tock ... tick-tock ... tick-tock ... that's it ... relaaax." "Now, you're going back in time Paul - back in time. Back to November 22nd, 1963, in Dallas, Texas ... back to riding through a sunny bright and warm Dealey Plaza and standing on the outside footrest of your big SS car." "Now Paul, tell us what you are seeing ... hearing ... feeling?" "Now you've arrived at Parkland hospital Paul. What are you seeing ... feeling ... doing?" "You see a lighter on the back seat of the presidential limo? Jackie Kennedy's pink hat as well? You pick them up? What else do you see Paul? What else ... remember! "GD it ... what else did you find in or on that back seat Paul?" Sometimes after years of heavy and sometimes depressing serious thought and study of the JFKA, you gotta take a break ... and laugh. Can't believe how the main MSM is lapping this particular story up and hugely reporting it with such continuous hyped-up serious coverage. Especially when it is so unprovable. Again I say that someone wanting this weakly credible story and book to get the ridiculously over-reported coverage it is getting sure has a big in with some very powerful news editors of our most powerful MSM entities.

Yes, good find. Bell admits that the trauma to her psyche was so great she experienced some amnesia. The following however, does sound like she was being honest. She admits it may have been Dr. Robert McClelland who in some way drew her attention to the JFK head wound. Dr. McClelland was at the head of the table and a mere 18 inches from JFK's skull and the massive wound there. During Harrison Livingstone's 1992 Dallas conference, Audrey Bell said "I remember Dr. Perry turned Kennedy's head to show me the wound", she then turned to Dr. McClelland and said "or it could've been you". McClelland didn't give a reply, but nevertheless, the interaction suggests an air of honesty.

So, what is going to come of Landis's so-called bombshell JFK limo full bullet finding and JFK gurney planting claims story outside of it giving his book a higher sales volume boost? It will not inspire any new investigative efforts. It will not inspire any major debate or discussion on national radio, TV or even on the internet. No major media newspaper editorials. It will be old and forgotten news in one month or so. American's under the age of 50 who may see or hear about this Landis book will simply be more confused as ever regards what they may have read or heard about the JFKA and the "Magic Bullet" story the last 50 years. A non-important nothing burger in their more immediate need tackling priority daily lives. Not one person who might have seen or otherwise known what Landis claims he found and did and given his story even a little corroboration is even alive. His story is impossible to prove or disprove. It's as fleetingly gripping as a National Enquirer headline story. His publisher should have added to the book title the word "Killing." Bill O'Reilly has made a fortune ( over $20,000,000 ) selling his line of books, all of which have the word "Killing" in their titles. It's a good gimmick! Really grabs the reader. Landis should have latched onto O'Reilly's shtick. His book would probably be a much better seller if it's title was something like "Killing The Magic Bullet Myth."

Prouty was an incredibly important and commendable truth revealing protagonist in the JFKA and beyond story of the century imo. A man of superior intelligence required lifelong highest responsibility achievement so numerous and varied and almost always in service to his country it's ludicrously illogical and even childishly irresponsible to try to broad brush paint him as simply a "nutcase." A normal human flawed hero in my book.

May you be surrounded with compassionate caring feelings and thoughts through whatever you are going through. If human thoughts and feelings can transcend time and space on a spiritual plane...you will be.

Prouty's life-time of highest level achievement is so remarkable in it's broadness it's mind blowing. Surely only the top 5% of Americans ever achieve what Prouty achieved in his combined stellar military and later civilian life. If Prouty fits the definition of "nutcase" the rest of us must be hapless cretins.

Who cares if Groubert displays some showmanship in his presentations. So did Mort Sahl! He's easier to watch and listen to not just because he really has interesting and imo insightful takes on so many JFKA related issues but also because he injects some humor into them that I personally find intelligently funny. I really like what Groubert has to say regards this Ropenalt guy. Ropenalt's background is so clearly revealing of what Groupert suggests. Landis seems clueless and guided. Someone big behind the scenes has created, financed and is running this whole "bombshell" book affair and probably for the reasons Groupert suggests.

MC...the McClelland comments scribbled to the right of his JFK head wound sketch are clearly qualified as "guesses" by McClelland! He isn't stating with any certainty the bullet entry location. He clearly uses the word "probably" and also states honestly that "I did not see this" in regards to any clearly seen bullet entry ID. He shouldn't have even wrote this on the paper. Even he admits his view on the entry wound location is a speculation versus medical examination proven fact.

Can you elaborate on this a little more MC? I'm wondering what your point is regards JFK's brain weight not being taken and recorded as standard procedure would require. And who was most responsible for that significantly important negligence? Sounds like Humes was over his head in certain aspects of the autopsy. He had what, only "2" bullet wound autopsies in his career up until his being called to autopsy JFK? In Hawaii he claimed? He felt he needed the help of two other more experienced pathologists to assist him? Seemed even Humes's two assisting navy medical corpsmen knew more about skull cutting brain removal procedure that he did. Too bad the hugely more experienced pathologist Dr. Earl Rose in Dallas didn't tackle the autopsy of JFK. I would guess he wouldn't have felt he needed two other pathologists to help him in that task.

Pat, I respectfully disagree. In this interview, seated right next to Dr. McClelland, is another Parkland hospital surgeon Dr. Jones. He was just feet from Dr. McClelland during JFK's emergency medical treatment. He is listening to Dr. McClelland's commentary including McClelland's very detailed description of JFK's "back of the head" wound and how much of JFK's brain was missing and more brain matter still oozing out onto "the cart" upon which JFK was laying. McClelland's details were so specific, he even mentioned watching part of JFK's "cerebellum" falling out of that wound! Never once did Dr. Jones even look like he was in anyway uncomfortable with or disagreeing with what his fellow hands-on JFK treatment Parkland ER doctor was describing. I think McClelland easily could have misremembered certain details in his decades of many interviews as any person would, especially into their older age. But the "core" of his descriptive remembrance sharing does not shift as far as you express it does imo. I would assume that every doctor present in Trauma Room 1 while JFK was being attended to that day has had misremembrances over their lifetimes and even made occasional contradictory statements regards everything from entrance wounds, brain damage/loss, vital sign activity, Jackie Kennedy's actions, you name it. Especially if they chose to be interviewed many times about what they witnessed. Many of those doctors never allowed themselves to be interviewed at all. Malcolm Perry for one, correct? Almost every doctor attending to JFK in Trauma Room 1 the afternoon of 11,22,1963 was in their youthful 30's mental acuity prime on that day. And they were hands-on witnessing the most shocking and memorable event of their lives and the rest of their lives. 10's of thousands of men who were engaged in hand-to-hand combat situations in war such as WW II, Korea and Viet Nam and who are interviewed 40, 50 even 60 years later often say they can remember every detail they witnessed in the bloodiest heat of battle they were a part of even that many years past. The human brain, when experiencing a life and death first-hand trauma goes into hyper-energized adrenaline rush mode. Memory sensors included. Any doctor or other witness to JFK's head and head wound as close up as McClelland was to them and who claims something different than what McClelland states has the exact same liabilities of long ago experience memory loss and misremembering as him. If one wants to impugn the veracity of highly trained and experienced professionals talking about something they directly witnessed ( lifetime shocking ) in their specific field of work from 60 years past, I am sure they can find misstatements or contradictories with all of them to a certain but not always a significant story changing degree. I simply feel that McClelland's main core sharing of what he saw up close regards JFK's head and head wound in Trauma Room 1 on 11,22,1963 was consistent and as believable as any other JFK attending doctor's sharing of what they witnessed that day. The bullet entry and exit stuff is so subjective and speculative due to many factors such as the shattering of JFK's skull into so many pieces, some of which were even blown off and away. Bullet hole ID into a shattered skull like JFK's was too difficult to determine definitively. Like looking at a puzzle with missing pieces? Too many JFK treating witnesses got trapped when asked to "speculate" about bullet entry and exit locations showing up on skull bone pieces. Their conclusions on that specific subject were obviously contradictory. Same with asking witnesses whether they believed there was just one gunman, whether they believed the Warren Commission findings, how they felt about Jim Garrison and his investigation etc. Those questions and their answers to them are not at all relevant to their hands-on / right there JFK injury observation sharings and the veracity of such imo. In the end, I believe McClelland's personal observation memory sharings of his Trauma Room 1 JFK treating experience on 11,22,1963 as much as any other doctor in that room that day and even more so Navy Commander Humes's regarding his work on JFK at Bethesda.

Start at the 13 minute mark of the interview video I am posting and hear Parkland surgery doctor Robert McClelland describe "in detail" the wound in the back of JFK's head and how much of JFK's brain matter was truly missing. The man was just "18 inches" from JFK's skull in his position at the top of the table upon which JFK was laying. And he remained there for what 15, 20 or even 30 minutes? What other Dr. or other witnesses to see JFK's head that close up within minutes of it's obliteration can one suggest to have had a better view of it, it's wound and brain matter loss including watching brain matter fall out of it right onto the cart/table underneath than Dr. McClelland? McClelland's fellow surgeon Dr. Jones was right there just a couple of feet away from McClelland at JFK's side in Trauma Room 1 that day and in this interview he doesn't contradict one thing Dr. McClelland describes. Bethesda Dr. Commander Humes said he didn't know why he nor anyone else failed to weigh JFK's brain upon his removal of it in his autopsy procedure. A procedure so standard in autopsies of criminal action head wound victims it is ludicrous that such an arrogantly confident man like Humes or even assisting Dr. Boswell could have missed this top priority criminal case evidence procedure just by forgetfulness. Imo it suggest they purposely avoided weighing JFK's brain because it was too significantly blown out. "The damn thing just fell out into my hands!" Assisting Bethesda medical corpsman James Jenkins quoted a startled Humes as saying upon removing JFK's brain. Dr. McClelland's description of the JFK back of the head wound and how much of JFK's brain was honestly missing (including more oozing out during JFK's ER treatment and even the chunk Jackie Kennedy held in her hand to give to another doctor there with McClelland) matches what Bethesda Navy Corpsman Paul O'Conner ( a trained brain removal technician ) described in sworn testimony. That "for all essential purposes most of JFK's brain was gone!" 1:02:33 NOW PLAYING Parkland Trauma Room One Reunion SixthFloorMuseum

It seems to me that Hickey didn't raise his automatic rifle until after the JFK head shot. And Clint Hill himself was in the line of fire when Hickey started blasting away...correct?

Pamela I wonder how much Landis was paid for his memoir book deal. It must have been a substantial amount. Our resident SS expert forum member Vince Palamara was trashed for years by certain SS agents ( as were his published findings books ) as simply a guy looking for book deal bucks with over-sensationalized and hugely misinformed tales of their history, especially their engagement in the JFKA. And they did so ...with their own profit making books and paid appearances to discuss the same subjects! Their hypocritical judgmental standard was that former SS agents had more integrity than to profit off anything to do with the JFKA and their roles in protecting JFK and Jackie K.. So, here once more we have another JFKA connected SS agent going after the big bucks with a non-provable highly sensationalized book and tale of his own. And again I state this so called "bomb shell" Landis book/tale is not worthy of highest level national news media coverage when it's main story line cannot in anyway be proved to be true. This is a "National Enquirer" story imo.

In todays real world, most Americans under the age of 50 are forced to think about one main subject over all others by a huge degree... Work, pay, bills, keeping up with the cost of basic needs living. For them and/or their young adult children. It consumes and exhausts them 24/7 ... and it's been this way for years and years. The JFKA? That part of our history isn't taught in our primary school curriculum at all and hasn't been for decades. Reading, math, science. That's it! Half our society is made up of people just continually struggling day to day to meet their basic needs. Keep them struggling and you keep them from the mental thought freedom to question or even think about anything nefarious that may be happening in the highest levels of government power. If Oliver Stone's film "JFK" were shown to every high school junior year civics, history or social study class students in the American public school system you would see a spike in poll numbers reflecting a belief in a JFKA conspiracy. Those class subjects however have been removed from most public school curriculums for quite awhile now.