Joe Bauer

So well articulated Paul. We need to come to terms with the JFKA and our contemplation/understanding of it's direction, impact and place in our minds 60 long years after it's occurrence in new ways now imo. As you state, part of doing so is acknowledging and facing the huge impact failures of our MSM in responsibly seeking the JFKA truth. As our very own Joseph McBride has been illuminating so well. Looking back upon Eisenhower's famous leaving office Military, Industrial , Corporate unchecked influence and confluence speech, it should have included the extra massive influence entity of our MSM. IMO anyways.

There were also reports of Reagan's secret negotiation team going to the Vatican months before the election. To do what? Make a deal for their help in getting Reagan elected? All I know is that every Catholic family I knew growing up ( hundreds here ) were always, and I mean ALWAYS. the most staunch Democratic party voters in every presidential election until 1980. Especially starting with their first Catholic president JFK. I always figured this was so because the Democratic party platforms were always more Catholic/Christian values poor and working class considering versus the Repubs favoring the wealthiest income groups and agendas. Heck, every Catholic family I grew up around were working class and working class poor. 10 to 12 kids. Tough to keep up with all those kids needs. But something illogically weird happened in the 1980 presidential election. Every one of those Catholic families just instantly changed their tune regards their decades long Democratic party voting loyalty! I was the type to engage others in political discussion. I came right out and asked many of my Catholic friends why they were doing so. I was hearing them promote the extreme right, rich man favoring Republican party and their poster boy Ronnie Reagan! And acting as if the Democrats were all of a sudden these anti-Christian boogie man agents of the devil! What was going on here? I reminded my new right-wing repub promoting friends of how the Democratic party had always championed the Christian values edicts of their church in caring about the poor, the down trodden, and especially the working class and the labor unions that finally lifted them up to realize the "American Dream" life with home purchases, higher education and job opportunities for their children etc. I asked them how they could vote for those in our country who wanted to emasculate those labor unions which had benefitted so many Americans like themselves as well as cutting back on other governmental programs that helped the working class and instead promoted what was more benefitting the wealthy class interests? I remember these Catholic persons not really being able to make their argument for their instant abandonment of the working class value party to the rich man's party. Except for one issue...abortion! That was it...one issue! I was told by a few brave Catholic Church goers who risked being called traitors to their church...that the church hierarchy from their father/pastors all the way up to Archbishops and Cardinals ( and even the Pope himself!) were instructing their flocks to abandon their Democratic party loyalties...because the Democrats were not just liberal about abortions...but promoting them! The work of the DEVIL! That was it! To hell with the working class defending Democrats. The Republican party gained millions of Catholic votes that election they had never had before. To this day, I lost so much respect for those Catholics who abandoned their much more Christian values Democratic party loyalty and instead handed our nation over to the anti-working class rich right wing that election, again, just over one manipulated super-hyped up issue. I strongly suspect that Reagan's roving back room deal maker Bill Casey and his team made a deal with the highest rungs of the Catholic Church hierarchy during their Vatican meet up. You tell your Cardinals, Archbishops and church fathers to instruct their flocks to embrace the Republican party in the 1980 election. Work them up with boogie man sermons regards the Democrats being baby killing agents of the devil! And it worked! Catholics across the country voted for the Republicans in unheard of numbers relative to their past presidential election Democratic loyalty voting records. Reagan and his extreme right wing, wealthy class favoring, union busting working class weakening clan got the ultimate power grab prize. And just years later, the Catholic church was revealed to be a massively corrupted institution of child sex abuse ... afflicting millions of children "world wide." A scandal so deeply effecting and disturbing...it has damaged their reputation to the point they have lost membership by the millions and donation funding by the billions! They haven't recovered from that diabolical debacle. To this day disturbing jokes about Catholic priests are common place. So, the Catholics handed their votes to the extreme right wing, rich man's party in 1980 to the detriment of all working and poorer class Americans ( even many of their own! ) all because they were worked up to believe Democrats were the ultimate child hurting anti-Christian heathens. And in the end it was "they themselves" who were exposed for the same sinful act affliction. You would think the world-wide Catholic church child sexual abuse scandal would have humbled them. But I've never heard any Catholic church adherent ever express such a feeling or thought. And here's what is equally crazy imo. Most of those Catholics who abandoned their more Christian principles Democratic party loyalty in 1980? They've continued their Republican party defending and voting for them...until today? And they are "still" using the single issue of abortion as their one and only rational for doing so!

Perhaps it is a victory that the massive work, time and effort of tens of thousands of researchers and seekers of the JFKA truth has kept the majority of Americans from accepting the Warren Commission finding of LHO being the one and only guilty party without help ... for 60 years? That the "losing effort" is as much that of the Warren Commission failing to convince the clear majority of the American public of their LN finding ...even after all that time? 60 years of societal majority felt mistrust of our government is not "a win." So, could this issue also be framed as a no winner, no loser "stalemate?" My original thread point was to bring this dark society wrenching dichotomy into the open for discussion and debate. One positive society benefitting fact throughout these last 60 years regards the massive research truth seeking effort into the JFKA and LHOA is how much it has helped to enlightened us all with revelations about so many other areas of dark power at our highest levels of governing and control...that we might never had been made aware of otherwise. One result of this revelatory knowledge is a good percentage of our society does not just blindly believe and trust everything our power leaders tell us...all the time. That questioning caution of great power is absolutely important in a democracy, especially ours, yes?

Very what?

True...seemed almost everyone just didn't know what to make of Ruby whacking Oswald right inside the DPD building parking garage. What could you say to others? It was just too unbelievable, even surreal. Yet, I "know" most people were very disturbed by Oswald being shot right inside the DPD building. The event caused unprecedented suspicion nationwide. Tens of millions of Americans feeling this.

Yes. What you say above is true. Yet, still, the fact is that after "6 decades" no one has identified JFK's killers and no one has been charged and punished for it. In that sense, JFKA truth and justice seekers must admit that JFK's killers have gotten away with this crime ... for 60 years now! That's not a victory in solving the case unless you accept the final conclusion findings of the Warren Commission.

He is once again gas lighting his violence minded followers.

How can millions of Trump loving and supporting people go to their churches every week to learn about the teachings of Jesus Christ for the goal of trying to honor and incorporate them into their daily lives ... and then justify their support for a man Jesus would have thrown out of his gatherings for a dozen reasons! Trump is a "Money Changer" personified! Everything he does comes with a "making money" mind set and angle. Here today he is once again asking his much poorer flock to send him money to fight his enemies. Trump lusts after his neighbor's wives. He kisses women without asking for permission and even grabs their private parts and brags how he gets away with doing so. He sleeps with porn stars and who knows who else while his wife is pregnant. He then li*s about it, and actually accuses his bed mates of l*ing about his doing so. He li*s incessantly. He cheats on his taxes by making up false numbers regards his assets values. He glorifies material wealth. Shows off and brags about his. He praises murderous dictators and men who deny Christian religion history and values. He defends those who commit physical violence in his name ( "we love Trump" ) when it comes to this benefitting his power and standing. He promotes the sin of gambling when it made him money. A corrupt person who has made a lot of money is considered a "winner" in his mind versus a more moral but penniless one being a "loser." The man apparently has never done any hands-on charity work outside of throwing paper towel rolls to hurricane ravaged Puerto Ricans. The man laughs about hand holding prayer religious leaders to his fixer after they leave. Can you believe that crap? He curses constantly and calls others junior high school bully crude and demeaning names..."publically!" "Horseface", "Fat", "Ugly", "Sleaze Bag", "Nasty", "Dumb", "Stupid", "Pencil Neck", "Pumpkin Head", "Little", and hundreds of other crude names. He associates with child sex traffickers like Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell and even expresses sympathy for Maxwell when she had to go to prison for this? Christ himself would surely have overturned Trump's tables and ordered him out of his presence. Christ parable ...“How hard it will be for those who have wealth to enter the Kingdom of God!” It is easier for a camel to go through “the eye of a needle” than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God." Fits Trump to a "T." How can these millions of church going Trump followers think this guy is their "chosen one?" He is the "opposite" of a Christian morals living and respecting person. One must consider the possibility that these Christian religion worshiping people are trapped into some type of delusional mental illness where they worship, praise and follow a human being who is at the "opposite end" of the Christian values and respect spectrum.

Matson - Caglecartoons.com

Really! Surprised you never posted this before. Did your mom ever share with you things she may have heard from those she knew and worked with at Parkland regarding their experience and thoughts and views about that day?

Yes. He's purposely gas lighting his most extreme base again. Just like he did in his January 6th speech at the Ellipse. Where he worked thousands of them up into a blind rage fury with his final call of ( if you don't fight like hell...you won't have a country anymore ) action, to the point they charged down to the Capital building and stormed through with incredible violence. Now, here he is "again" gas lighting his most blindly following and easily worked up base to "PROTEST, TAKE OUR NATION BACK!" In all caps to simulate angry shouting. After the Trump urged January 6th storming of our capital building full of our life and death fearing and traumatized Congress inside, this new call to Trump's most willing followers to physically protest in the streets about his coming arrest is simply...a repeat of his outrageous sedition call to arms he perpetrated on January 6th, 2021. The man never quits! No wonder his most rabid minions even infer a "civil war with separation of states" would be a good thing. High position and reputation conservative Judge Michael Luttig was right...in spades. Trump is "a clear and present danger to our Democracy."

If Oswald shot Officer J.D. Tippit he instantly knew his life was toast. Oswald also knew there were witnesses to the shooting and that some had seen him up close enough in his run away from the scene to give a general description of him. Oswald's mind set from the murder scene to the theater must have been one of absolute desperate life and death fearing and even expecting confusion. When he saw the movie stop and the theater lights come on and high energy armed officers rushing in he knew he might even be shot to death right there. If Oswald said as officers were closing in on him just feet away... "Well, it's all over now" It would reveal his resignation to the worst case ending to his situation. Oswald's actions after leaving his North Beckley Avenue room, shooting Tippit, running to a downtown public area and struggle in the theater...were desperate to a suicidal degree. I always have a curious gnawing about Oswald throwing "everything" to the wind like that. He purposely put his two daughter's future into a probable curse of continuous sadness and pain...doing what he reportedly did on 11,22,1963. He put his personal rage expressing over his love for his babies? And then has the gall to ask his wife Marina to make sure baby June got a new pair of sneakers during her visit to him at the jail? The contradictions of Oswald's actions and words make your head spin.

Just viewed their Sirhan Sirhan analysis video. The clips of Sirhan were after 20 years of his incarceration and what...16 parole hearing turn downs? And with an upcoming parole hearing soon to take place? Although Sirhan was mostly smiling in those clips, you could see and feel his deep, deep resentment and even rage about his circumstances of long-term imprisonment. I will share that he seems to be very honest and open in those clips regards his feelings about RFK in 1968 and his motives for shooting at him in the Ambassador Hotel pantry. And as bitter and angry as Sirhan was and showed in those 20 year incarceration time-line interviews...I can't imagine his physical and mental mind set now at the ... "55" year mark! Wow! That's a long, long incarceration time period. He must be just an empty shell in every human feeling way.

Your personal experience story Mr. Steve Roe is exactly the kind of fascinating and important "right there - on that morning" sharing that adds so much to the fuller historical perspective, especially regards the true full emotional impact the Ruby/Oswald and JFK events had on our entire society at that time. An impact that included deep mistrust and suspicion ( nation wide ) of everything. Unlike any we had seen up to that time and which has lasted 6 decades since. To this day, even with a third generation, polls show that a majority of Americans still don't fully believe the Warren Commission findings. SR...you were right there in Dallas on that day! Fascinating to read the sharings of those who were.

I think it's very important to know that most of our top military leaders on 11,22,1963 were not enamored with and with some even hating of their own President. Seeing JFK as a commie sell out...a traitor! I don't recall seeing many highest rank 1963 era military officers expressing true sadness regards JFK's slaughter in public interviews then and ever since. Obviously, those who hated JFK like LeMay simply showed their contempt for him by not saying much at all when asked about their feelings regards JFK's murder. Same goes for our secret intel agencies and their highest rank officers and covert team leaders. Dulles, Cabell, Hoover, and on and on. E. Howard Hunt and David Phillips never expressed much sorrow over JFK's killing...did they? David Morales bragged how they got "that SOB" to his old friends in his heavy drinking retirement. And William Harvey's widow's years later recounting of his and her shared contempt for JFK ( including even Jackie and Robert Kennedy ) was literally seething. "They were scum!" No feelings of sorrow and empathy expressed at all for the Kennedy's and their brutal murders and the losses to their immediate family survivors. Knowing all these powerful co-power sharing communities of our federal government and their top tier leaders hated JFK and RFK to the point of feeling no sorrow for their brutal and painful mid-life age cut short murders, this fact can't help but to add a sense of doubt and suspicion regards the JFK hating climate of the times.

Thank you Denny Z. And yes; Thank you all for contributing your stories. It's been 60 years and to hear these personal recountings of the actual event by those of us that saw it happening right in front of our eyes brings the emotional power impact of it to others who may want to know what if felt like. It keeps the event and it's importance alive in our later generation societal thoughts as well.

I vote cigar.

Great MU! Thanks.

If JFK Jr. ever decided to run for office his incredibly iconic lineage and stunning movie star looks alone would have made him a front runner from the starting gate. I am sure the typical JFK ideology adversarial powers to be considered him a future threat to their interests of the highest degree.

Ford was the perfect choice to not just pardon Tricky Dick, but to keep control of the whole situation by the same WC/FBI cabal that controlled the JFK event investigation back in 1963/64. I wonder whether Haig would have pardoned Nixon...or not.

Oh wow. Would love to see that. Could you provide a link Chris? Thanks, JB

Incredible.

As I mentioned and like the great majority of JFKA truth seekers, I have to admit this fact. I am "not sure" who killed JFK. If Oswald did some shooting, I am more sure of his being assisted in some way versus not, especially in his perfect shooting perch location and supposed timing luck. I am also more sure than not that Jack Ruby had help in getting into the DPD basement at just the right time to do Oswald. I have run through so many witness testimonies in my head over and over that suggest Oswald and Ruby did not do their deeds without some help. I have filtered these suggestive claims through my logic screening filter so many times I am often just tired of doing so. Still, the Sylvia Odio, Rose Cheramie stories and so many others and Oswald's laughably incriminating New Orlean's shenanigans will never allow me to believe Oswald and Ruby simply "got lucky" in pulling off the crimes of the century. The conundrum of still not being sure who killed JFK is accompanied by the same one of Oswald just getting lucky ( and Ruby too ) in doing their deeds by themselves. So, the unsureness goes both ways imo.

Generally, I agree Mr. Mileto.

Readership numbers? I am guessing the number of "visitors" to the forum site may be well over 100...maybe even over two hundred? They read everything here. I have seen the actively queued in visitor numbers vary from 10 to as high as 35 at times. Yet, those numbers are from a much larger total pool. Correct? Some pop in one day. Others the next. I am sure many of our visitors come from other JFK forums. Remember too that several of our members and their research and published works often cross over into much broader media venues. Huge audience ones. National audience "Coast To Coast AM" talk radio show and many other more regional audience ones. Well known podcasts. Occasional magazine and newspaper articles. Even internet news venues. Major book publishing deals for a few. Our own Jim Di working hand in hand with Oliver Stone himself! On a nationally and even internationally distributed film? Having lunch one on one with Stone and the great film writer David Mamet! Remember also, all the other JFKA forums know this one is the highest bar one with the highest esteem contributors. The small readership claim is misleading. Maybe a better analogy is that this forum is like an elite membership private country club with strict vetting rules. Only the most respected and intelligent are allowed in? It was never intended to be a Jerry Springer/Maury Povich/Pit Bulls And Parolees TV show fan drop in venue.