Pete Mellor

Yes, Joseph, agree entirely, this guy couldn't keep quiet & let Clark tell his story.

Another great piece Gil. Questions remain on whatever rifle was supposedly found on the 6th floor of the TSBD & the so called ballistics evidence associated with it. Just like the Oswald hand gun supposedly involved in the Tippit killing along with the ballistic evidence and the chains of possession in each case. Also, as Ben has pointed out the evidence against Sirhan's weapon being responsible for killing RFK is equally shoddy. Add to all this the case against James Earl Ray & the investigation into the killing of Malcolm Little.....all would make a satirical comedy if the subject wasn't so tragic.

Greg, even though it is a long time mantra that U.S. & G.B. have a special relationship, I do not really feel able to comment on the viability of an American national membership and lobbying organisation from across the pond, that could engage with the U.S. Congress while being headquartered in D.C. etc. However, as usual, the meat of your thread here I find very interesting. If Joan Mellen can organise the scrutiny of fingerprints from boxes on the TSBD and obtain the prints of Mac Wallace from WWII U.S. Naval records to get recognised experts to compare the two, then I would think it should be possible to achieve the same with Curtis LaVerne Crafard's (Craford) prints, (unless some nefarious higher power deem that not in their interest.) Unless there is a significant improvement in the photographic quality of images of 'prayer man', I do not see that route being of value in the pursuit of exoneration of Oswald in the JFK case. Jonathan Cairns has a fair defence attorney's post on Kennedy's and King. As for General Walker, Gil's present thread on 'The Witness' has a good post from Jim Hargrove regarding CE573 (the item dug out of Walker's wall) being a steel jacketed bullet. I would think this evidence should have more weight to exonerate Oswald with the public etc., than anything. The fact that Walker himself could not identify the bullet that the Warren Commission presented to him also says much. Whatever you develop along these lines I am sure to watch from afar with great interest. Good luck!

Yes, excellent tributes in Fort Worth. One of my favourite bands, the Allman Brothers, never got to see them but those Fillmore albums are top of my Spotify list!

Yeah John, I was adding to Jeremy's post.

God only knows how I got home from a drinking session with John in 1972 after Pentangle's gig at Manchester's Free Trade Hall. White House Blues for Ron.

'Four Days' must be the earliest publication on the JFK assassination beating Buchanan's 'Who Killed Kennedy?' & the Warren Report. I obtained my copy from a DPUK book auction for £10. Later editions have a cream colour front with a photograph of JFK but my hardback copy is black with just 'FOUR DAYS' printed in silver lettering. The book was compiled by UPI and published by American Heritage Magazine, although my copy has Simon & Schuster printed on the hardback spine. As the title indicates it covers the events from Friday morning in Fort Worth to the interment at Arlington. There are just four pages of assassination pictures in Dealey Plaza. P16 has a Muchmoor frame showing the limo with the Newman's standing on the north side of Elm & Babushka/Brehm on the south side. P17 again shows a Muchmoor frame (No55) with Jean Hill & Mary Moorman on the south side of Elm around the same time of Moorman's b/w polaroid No5, which occupies a double spread on pages 18 & 19. P20 has another Muchmoor frame showing Clint Hill just reaching the limo which I think is equivalent to the Nix film frame No66. Finally on P21 there are two pictures which show Hill with his foot on the rear step, very similar to Nix frame No66 & the other shows Jackie on the trunk & Hill assisting her back into her seat. The Notes do not acknowledge any source/picture takers, simply stating that "The photographs are from the UPI newspicture services, & the sequences showing the assassination of the President are from UPI Newsfilm. All in all, a great historical souvenir. Although I am no expert on film matters I would tend to agree that authorities (FBI/Warren etc) did not have access to Muchmoor's film or Wilma Bond's & although FBI agents watched Bronson's brief images they were not used because of a lack of clarity and because they did not show the TSBD.

I think this first appeared in 1965 in Jean Stafford's 'A Woman in History' where Marguerite rambles about JFK's life threatening illnesses leading to the government mercy killing. Stafford also writes that Marguerite "had petitioned to have Lee Harvey buried in Arlington Cemetery". Although no mention is made as to who and when Mrs Oswald made the petition.

Thanks for the detailed reply Greg. You must wear out many keyboards!

Agree. I've never held the view of Oswald walking towards Ruby's apartment & meeting Tippit at 10th & Patton. What is not mentioned in your post above is the vehicle (cop) pipping horn that Roberts testified to. (Maybe you've dealt with that on another thread.) Also, as well as changing dirty work clothes Oswald is supposed to have picked up his gun at Beckley! To go watch a movie!?! Did that really happen or do you consider that part of the framing by DPD for the Tippit killing? I have mentioned previously that I appreciate your logical and thoughtful posts on many aspects of this case. The discarded snub nose found on Saturday morning I have never read of that previously. I do sit on the picket fence on many points of the JFK assassination & I'm still vague on Oswald trying to escape the JFK killers....but great food for thought.

See Thompson's 'Last Second in Dallas' chapter 6 "A Matter of Reasonable Doubt" pgs 85-90. Tink photographed Zapruder transparencies of individual frames in Time's office.

When President Kennedy's car was about ten feet from us, I heard a noise that sounded like a firecracker going off. President Kennedy kind of jumped like he was startled and covered his head with his hands and then raised up. After I heard the first shot, another shot sounded and Governor Connolly kind of grabbed his chest and lay back on the seat of the car....Just about the time President Kennedy was right in front of us, I heard another ring out and the President put his hands up to his head. I saw blood all over the side of his head. -Gayle Newman. Michael, Gayle Newman's statement taken at the Dallas Sheriff's Dept., on Nov. 22nd., & she and husband Bill were, as we know, two of the nearest witnesses to the kill shot(s). These witness statements are what keep us debating this topic! The Secret Service agent who claimed to see the back wound shot was Glen Bennett.

Nice one Gil, so the next question is:- Did DPD search team purportedly find the bus transfer in the pocket of CE151?

So, the bus transfer was found two hours after Oswald's arrest in his shirt pocket, after his second frisk by Boyd & Sims. Didn't Oswald change his shirt at his rooming house, or is that story just more uncorroborated confusion?

Termed Mondegreens:- a misunderstood or misinterpreted word or phrase resulting from a mishearing of the lyrics of a song. I can think of many that I misheard too!

Tin soldiers and Nixon's comin'We're finally on our ownThis summer I hear the drummin'Four dead in Ohio

I can only think of Judyth Vary Bakeries.

It was President Johnson's aide, Cliff Carter, who ordered DPD to turn over all evidence to the FBI on Friday evening and there is little doubt that it was LBJ who instructed Carter to phone DPD. Chief Curry told the Commission, "Around midnight of Friday night we agreed to let the FBI have all the evidence and they say they would bring it to their laboratory and they would have an agent stand by and when they were finished with it to return it to us." The Dallas Police then gave all of the physical evidence, *without a written inventory*, to FBI agent Vince Drain who departed from Carswell Air Force Base aboard a C-130 tanker at 3:10 A.M. for Washington, D.C. (SA Drain DID NOT testify before the Warren Commission.) From the testimony of Jesse Curry the WC learned that the FBI had taken Oswald's possessions to Washington D.C., during the early morning hours of November 23rd. As seasoned lawyers, the Commission members and their staff understood the "custodial chain of evidence" from the DPD to the FBI had been broken. There was no written record of the items taken by the FBI to Washington on November 23rd, nor was there a written record of the items returned to the Dallas Police three days later (November 26th). James Cadigan, and FBI document specialist, received the confiscated items (Oswald's possessions) at FBI headquarters in Washington. When Cadigan first testified before the Warren Commission, the only Commission member present was former CIA director Allen Dulles. Cadigan said, "Initially, the first big batch of evidence was brought into the laboratory on November 23 and this consisted of many, many items......It was a very large quantity of evidence that was brought in." Commission attorney Melvin Eisenberg learned just how many items that the FBI received when he asked Cadigan if he remembered one particular item. Cadigan said, "On November 23, when the vast bulk of this material came in it was photographed....to select one item out of four or five hundred, I cannot, in all honesty say I definitely recalled seeing this...." Eisenberg now knew that "four or five hundred" items of evidence, which belonged to Oswald were brought into the FBI laboratory on November 23rd. He also knew that no inventory list accompanied these items from Dallas to FBI Headquarters (Nov. 23) or from FBI Headquarters to Dallas (Nov. 26). More Alice in Blunderland.

Paul, David, Greg's post is purely concerned with the DPD evidence photo to decide if a Minox can be seen. Even with David Butler's quality pic, I for one cannot identify a Minox. Questions of whether Oswald had a Minox in his seabag, or what film(s) were taken with the Minox, and by whom, or what belonged to Michael Paine, or what happened to the evidence at FBI HQ are Q's for further topics. I completely agree with Paul:-"I don’t think we have enough information to prove that if the Minox is not in this particular photo then the DPD never took one into evidence, nor that Oswald didn’t own one." but I have a feeling that question will be debated further.

A Russian state TV host has said the reason president Vladimir Putin’s “special operation” in Ukraine is taking so long is because the country has entered World War Three against Nato. The remarks from one of Russia’s most prominent television presenters follow a stinging symbolic defeat for Moscow with the sinking of the flagship of its Black Sea fleet, Moskva. Presenter Olga Skabeyeva implored Rossiya 1 viewers to “recognise” that the country was now “fighting against Nato infrastructure, if not Nato itself.” She said: “Many are saying ‘could it not be done more quickly?’ Everyone wants it to happen more quickly. Everyone would like a conclusive victory. Everyone would like all the objectives set to be implemented. “Otherwise, on the whole, it’s impossible to accept the special operation which we started - Russia’s special operation in Ukraine. The presenter continued: “One can safely call what it has escalated into World War Three. That’s absolutely for sure. “Right now, we’re definitely fighting against Nato infrastructure, if not Nato itself. We need to recognise that.” It comes as the 610 ft flagship Moskva sank on Thursday while being towed back to port, the Russian defence ministry said. Russian defence officials said ammunition on board the ship had exploded in an unexplained fire, but Ukraine claimed it struck the ship with its Neptune missiles. Moscow denied there was an attack on the warship and said that its guided missile launchers were intact. The Moskva’s loss dealt a fresh blow to the Russian offensive as it prepares for a new assault in the eastern Donbas region that is likely to define the conflict’s outcome. In his nightly address on Thursday, President Volodymyr Zelensky told Ukrainians they should be proud of having survived 50 days under the Russian seige when the invaders “gave us a maximum of five.” Listing the ways Ukraine has defended against the onslaught, Zelensky mentioned “those who showed that Russian warships can sail away, even if it’s to the bottom” of the sea. It was his only reference to the Moskva. Russian state TV presenter Olga Skabeyeva says her country is fighting World War Three against Nato.

Curiouser & curiouser to quote Lewis Carroll. I have to say that Greg has posted many interesting and thought provoking threads over past months which I have found both original and logical in their analysis of evidence in this case. I may not be convinced of some of the theories that he has put forward, on Crafard for instance, but I certainly think these posts benefit the 'JFK Assassination debate'. Pro or anti conspiracy has no bearing for me, it is his logical analysis of evidence that is important. So, IS THERE, OR, IS THERE NOT, A MINOX CAMERA IN THE DPD EVIDENCE PHOTO? A question that would be put to a jury in any Anglo-Saxon jurisdical proceeding. Why the DPD could not photograph these items of evidence (in a case of such monumental importance) in a clear format with i.d. tags on each item, or even better, with each item photographed individually, instead of this hotch-potch ambiguous mess. Did the DPD have no film for their cameras, like they had no voice recorders for their interviews? I find it all very sus. So, NO, there is not a Minox camera in the DPD evidence photo.......or your eyesight is better than mine Gunga Din!

Vince, My copy of the April 2022 DPUK journal arrived in the post this week.

Sandy, just advising against a coronary! 🚑

All this is so convoluted....it does seem as bent as a nine shilling note! One important piece of evidence that was not present during the initial searches of the property, but turned up at a later date, was the Imperial Reflex duo-lens camera. This inexpensive, gray metal body camera was proven by FBI photographic expert Lyndal Shaneyfelt to have taken the infamous “Backyard Photos” which featured Lee Oswald holding his guns, seemingly the same guns used to commit his notorious crimes.10 One of these photos, purportedly taken by Marina Oswald outside their Neeley Street apartment in Dallas, was featured on the cover of Life Magazine and seemed to influence public opinion about Oswald’s guilt. As stated, the photographs and their negatives were found at the Paine residence on the 22nd, but according to detectives present at that search, the camera that took the pictures was nowhere to be found. According to an FBI document from March 26, 1964 (published in the Warren Commission as Exhibit 2557), Marina Oswald, on February 17, was shown photographs of the “Cuera-2” and Stereo Realist cameras in an effort to determine which camera was used. She did not recognize either. She stated that she had taken the photos with an American-made box camera, gray, and made of aluminum. She recalled that she had to look down into the viewfinder located on the top of the camera while holding the camera at chest level. Robert Oswald, too, had been asked about any cameras the previous day and did not recognize either, nor could he furnish any additional information. On February 19, Detective John McCabe of the Irving Police Department notified the FBI that he found a camera amongst boxes of Oswald’s possessions during the November 23 search of the Paine residence, but he left the camera because it was in poor condition. (None of the four Dallas Police detectives, Rose, Adamcik, Stovall, or Moore, recalled seeing the camera on the 22nd or the 23rd. According to an FBI document, “They all stated that if it (the camera) had been discovered during the search, they would have brought it in.”) Later that day (Feb. 19), Ruth Paine relayed to the FBI that Robert Oswald picked up the last remaining items at their home after the assassination, later verified to have been on December 8. On February 24, Robert Oswald was contacted by investigators, whereby he surrendered possession of the Imperial Reflex dual lens camera. He said that his brother had purchased the camera before he went into the Marines in 1957, leaving it in Fort Worth with Robert when he left for the Soviet Union in 1959.” As quoted elsewhere, Robert Oswald, alone, felt the items were of no evidentiary value and held onto them, an explanation was good enough for the FBI and Warren Commission. Seemingly, no investigative body was concerned that Robert, under Secret Service scrutiny when he retrieved the camera from the Paines’, neglected to mention this potential evidence to anyone for three months.