Pete Mellor

Cliff, what is your take on the windshield hole? Didn't exist? Internal or external damage? Do you consider a shot from the South Knoll to JFK's throat wound?

My big cat is a Celestron CPC800 which I've had for a few years now. If you've never had good skies in Arkansas, that sounds familiar here in U.K. Since Comet Neowise has been about we've been blanketed in cloud! Mark, I think we have similar ideas on aliens, but I think the chances of being visited by some space rock is more likely.

My long interest in astronomy may well be why I can't seriously take the idea of alien crafts buzzing around planet earth. I'll only believe it when I see 'em. However, would I welcome them? Sure! Only to see the effect on the world's states and particularly on world religions.

Taken from old Education Forum post (Don Roberdeau Jan 14th 2005-DAL-TEX 'scope of a rifle mounted on a tripod') Memoir of Mack White's visit to Dealey Plaza on 23rd November '63:- "We walked to Dealey Plaza, passing the Dallas city jail. My father told me that Lee Harvey Oswald was being held inside. This made a great impression on me, to think that inside that very building was the man who had done the horrible thing. We were sure of Oswald's guilt. At that early hour, everyone was. It never occurred to us that his guilt might be less than a sure thing. The doubts would not begin until the next day, when local Mob man Jack Ruby appeared on the stage of history and shot Oswald while in police custody. In front of the Texas Schoolbook Depository a man was selling copies of the Dallas Times-Herald. There was a huge stack of papers, but only a few people to buy them. Strange as it may seem now, tourists had not yet begun to arrive in Dealey Plaza in significant numbers. That morning it was mostly reporters and cops. My father bought one of the papers (which I still have) and we walked around, my father taking pictures (which I also still have). At one point, my father pointed out the so-called "sniper" window to me. As I was looking up, my eye wandered away from the window to the fire escape on the building across the street--the Dal-Tex building-where I saw two men taking turns looking through the scope of a rifle mounted on a tripod. I was alarmed. "What are they doing?" I asked. "It's part of the investigation," said my father. So the police were checking out an alternative sniper perch. Evidently, that morning, there was still something resembling a real investigation. The investigation, of course, would end the next day with Oswald’s death." Maybe the Dallas Police Dept., believed Howard Brennan!

Wise stated that the men acted scared and he could smell wine on the breath of one of them. Wise took the men over to the Sheriff’s Office, and while waiting to turn them over, asked the men for identification. Wise stated that he believes that two of the men had documented ID’s. He wrote the ID’s down on a piece of paper and put them in his hat. “He turned the men over to the Sheriff’s Office (Deputy name unknown), ( I believe this Deputy to be Harold Elkins) and went back to his radio”. He heard over the police radio that a policeman had been shot, and a little later heard that it was J.D. Tippit”. I believe Steve Thomas is correct on Elkins as per Decker exhibit 5323 Supplementary Investigation Report dated 26th Nov '63. Warren Hearings & Exhibits v19.p540. Harold E. Elkins (Deputy, Dallas County Sheriff's Dept.)".....I immediately ran to the area from which it sounded like the shots had been fired. This is an area between the railroads and the TSBD which is east of the railroads. There were several other officers in this area and we secured it from the public. After searching this area for about ten minutes and not finding any evidence, I went to a tower that overlooks the railroad yards and also has a vantage point over the area around the school book building. I talked to an employee there and he gave me the descriptions of two automobiles that he had seen in the area just a few minutes earlier. When I went back outside I learned from the other officers that it had been established that the shots were fired from the school building.......A while later a City of Dallas policeman came to our office with three prisoners who he had arrested on the railroad yards. I took these three to the city jail and turned them over to Capt. Fritz." Also from Marrs' 'Crossfire'.....In 1981 Kent Biffle, a reporter for the Dallas Morning News, wrote an article detailing his experience that day that pinpointed the tramp arrests as shortly after the assassination: "Everyone was pointing toward a fence that connected with the Underpass....I ran that way. Some teenagers followed. One of them darted ahead and hit the fence before I did......Puffing, I followed him. The other side of the fence revealed no gunmen. There was just a maze of railroad tracks and three dazed winos. "What happened?" I asked one. "What happened?" He asked me. People were still climbing over the fence. I ran east to the Texas School Book Depository." Like so many other aspects of the assassination, can we ever pick bones out of the 3 tramps mystery? Still asking "What happened?"

The most important aspect of Bowers' testimony is the sighting of these three vehicles driving around the area. If they were innocent surely you would expect one or more to have come forward to give some innocent explanation of their presence. As that has never happened this gives further weight to nefarious activity behind the knoll.

Oswald's school photographs. Over to you guys to conclude 'what' school & 'what' year.

It came across the pond too Ron. Donovan had the same sign on his acoustic guitar mid sixties.

.....and is it true that Nixon once told an aide that the coverup of JFK's assassination was the greatest hoax ever. (quote from George Schwimmer's 'Doppelganger'.)

Very interesting NYT article. Bob Dylan sounds like he's on the ball. My copy of 'Rough & Rowdy Ways' is in the post.

Cheers Doug. That American University speech sounds better every time I hear it. Such eloquence from a POTUS has never been equalled since. It's a long way down from '63 to 2020!

Bleak House?

MMF does not show on Amazon, however it does list Stanley Marks' book 'Coup d'état: November 22nd 1963' mentioned in the K&K's article... however this too is unavailable.

Jim, I thought your thread was an interesting idea so I did a search through some of my reading material. The information on the Kefauver link came out of Michael Collins Piper's 'Final Judgment'. I have this weird tome on Kindle & it comes with no Notes or references. Take that for what its worth. Don't want to lead you down any dark alleys. Kutner's papers are archived at the Hoover Institute, if they are searchable on line. He was a co-founder of Amnesty International & his bio doesn't fit with the Ruby character, or the charges of him in Piper's book.

I only caught up with this thread today, and watched 'Unacknowledged' on Netflix. The Shakespeare quote from Hamlet I do believe...'there are more things under heaven Horatio' etc. The Drake equation provides a fair figure for intelligent life in our universe. (Or maybe multiverse.) One of my interests is astronomy, whenever the U.K. skies clear of clouds! As for U.F.O.'s until I get proof personally, I keep an open mind. I remember reading of Betty & Barney Hill's abduction back in my teens. I do except that sightings are made by professional and sound people, like airline & military pilots etc., but I've never seen a video that clearly shows proof of some extra-terrestrial craft. Saucer shapes and lights in the sky don't give me definitive convictions either way, although I have nothing to refute all the stories & testimonies. If I have scepticism it comes from the distances of space. Our nearest star to our sun is Alpha Centauri (which is actually 3 stars) & they are over four light years away & no planets that reside in a favourable orbit to set up life, at least the last that I recall. I think the nearest possible system is into double figures of light years. So I ask myself why these clinging ons are travelling all this way in such numbers to play cat & mouse across our skies? My jury votes 'not proven'.

Purely by co-incidence I've just read Hyman's 'Burying the Lead' & p236 which states Miami Chief of Police Walter Headley Jr., quoting from Jesse Curry's book 'JFK Assassination File' ….."Eyewitnesses who reported seeing Dallas police interview two men on the 6th floor of the depository, turned over to the FBI and no statement about the second man or mention of an accomplice was in the FBI report." Assume these witnesses had better eyesight than Howard Brennan!

Interesting. I know next to nothing re:- Jonestown, but I do dig into other assassinations & intel links to these cases. Regarding Lennon's killing, it smells to me. British lawyer Fenton Bresler published 'Who Killed John Lennon' in late 80's which highlighted many similarities with Mark Chapman & other 'patsy' figures. Other writers have also had suspicions of CIA links to doorman Jose Perdomo. The Stones drug bust in '67 involved intel agent Richard Schneidermann, over from the States to supply a wide range of drugs & set up the arrival of cops. Schneidermann was the only person to walk away free, & flew back to California. He was reportedly CIA. Jimi Hendrix's manager was Military intel, & Jimi's demise is full of rumour & doubt. The 'accidental' death of Diana Spencer in Paris also stinks of intel involvement & the official story is as wild as the JFK case.

Did you ask your friend how he knew the alleged assassin hid out in that cabin?

Ron, that Washington Post article states data that is identical to what is the condition in U.K. & I think the per capita death count/population figure is higher here in U.K. than the States!

The antimalarial drug touted by Donald Trump as a treatment for the coronavirus has been linked to an increased risk of death in patients, according to the first major study into its use. The president called hydroxychloroquine a “game changer” in the fight against the virus in March, and has promoted its use ever since, despite no evidence that it had any positive effect for patients infected with Covid-19. Earlier this week he claimed that he had been taking the drug himself. “I get a lot of tremendously positive news on the hydroxy,” Mr Trump said, adding: “What do you have to lose?” But a new study of 96,000 hospitalised coronavirus patients around the world found there was a 34 perc ent increase in the risk of mortality in those given the drug. It also led to a 137 per cent increased risk of serious heart arrhythmias. “Our large-scale, international, real-world analysis supports the absence of a clinical benefit of chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine and points to potential harm in hospitalised patients with COVID-19,” said the authors of the study, which was published in the Lancet medical journal.

Sounds good to me too! This Saturday DPUK have Gary Severson on Skype talking about Richard Case Nagell & members can log into from home....in these times of lockdown it keeps our regular meetings going. I'll notify Bart & he can arrange the link at some point in the future. No rush if the publication is spring 2021.

Sounds like a large body of work there Vince! I'll second Joe's comments above. Sometime in the future could we arrange a Skype link to DPUK so our membership can get an interview with yourself and Bart to discuss the book?

John, purely coincidence that Kittrell was mentioned in this thread & Bart posted a link on DPUK's FB page, to the blog where the Fortean article came from. An attempt to discredit her? No idea. As an amateur astronomer, I don't usually go for UFO's. However a year back I read 'UFO's, E.T.'s & Alien Abductions : A Scientist Looks at the Evidence' by John Crosbie Donderi. Interesting book, but the JFK case is as 'out of this world' as I can handle!

Jim, the special that I saw on U.K. tv recently pumping out this RFK did it BS also included an accusation that Peter Lawford in later years confirmed Bobby's involvement. Does McGovern deal with this in 'Murder Orthodoxies'? And then ask yourself, why are there so many specials on this case? And so few on the JFK and RFK cases? In U.K. if any programmes on these cases are broadcast, they are screened away from the main BBC & main independent channels & mostly appear on a wacko channel that often puts out progs on aliens, Hitler in S. America and assorted conspiracy stuff. Actually, I've only caught a couple on Monroe & RFK...JFK gets the majority. However, in all cases the content is shallow, ridiculous! 'Mortal Error-The Shot that killed JFK' type themes. Second, this case, which is not a conspiracy, gets media time, while the JFK and RFK cases, which were conspiracies, get little or none. I see it all as part of Wilford's 'Mighty Wurlitzer'