The Paine Files

[James DiEugenio]

This is part of the film that I don't think Max did as completely as he could have.

In my review, I will discuss this.

Edited May 5, 2022 by James DiEugenio

[Denny Zartman]

I can't wait to see the film. Based on Greg's reaction, it must be pure dynamite. 

[W. Niederhut]

13 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

The Paines had 6 or 7 small portable metal file cabinets in their garage with information on Cuban sympathizers in some.  Confirmed in a DPD report.  Michael Paine told a DPD or Sherrif's Officer on 11/23/63 "These are the people he writes to".  The file cabinets were confiscated.  DPD tried to drop them off at the Sheriff's office, Decker refused.  They, all but one and all the contents disappeared.  It's in WC testimony (read the thread).

Poor, broke Lee didn't transport these from New Orleans to Dallas on the bus he told Ruth he took to get there - per her.  Nor did she when she picked up Marina in New Orleans on the way back from her convoluted trip to see her sister, of the CIA, in Virginia.

The proven existence of the files proves the Paine's were collecting information on Cuban sympathizers before they ever met the Oswald's.  Probably for the CIA.  

   

Unless, of course, they were tracking commies for the Quakers... 🤥

BTW, wasn't Nixon-- the man who carpet-bombed Cambodia-- also a Quaker?

[Greg Doudna]

The incredible allegation that Ruth Paine had files of names of Cuban sympathizers in her garage

In the Max Good film, "The Assassination & Mrs. Paine":

DiEugenio: When the Dallas police went to the Paine household, one of the detectives wrote a report about taking out several filing cabinets of notations and cards and maps etcetera of Castro sympathizers. This makes a very good case, I believe, that Michael and Ruth were involved in surveillance activities of the American left. These cabinets existed until the Warren Commission. Because there are several exhibit numbers in the Warren Commission that refer to them. But the big difference is when the Warren Commission went through them, they only found something like one letter from Ruth to one of her relatives. So in other words, if the original report is accurate, somebody fiddled with the contents of those cabinets.

This is an astonishingly irresponsible allegation which is known to be untrue. It is irresponsible in that the film does not disclose to the viewer that the officer, deputy sheriff E.D. “Buddy” Walthers, in his testimony under oath to the Warren Commission, denied that he ever had personal knowledge that that earlier report was accurate—a report uncorroborated by any other officer or witness either, and that he, the sole source of the claim, repudiated it

Even in Walthers’ original report of Nov 22, 1963 in which the statement was made that DiEugenio quotes, the wording strictly construed does not claim Walthers himself ever saw such or witnessed such (“also found was a set of metal filing cabinets containing records that appeared to be names and activities of Cuban sympathizers” [19H520]). No other officer reported any such thing, and Walthers, the sole foundation for the story, made it clear to the Warren Commission that the story is baseless. Here is Walthers’ testimony to the Warren Commission in 1964: 

Mr. Liebeler. What was in these file cabinets?

Mr. Walthers. We didn't go through them at the scene. I do remember a letterhead--I can't describe it--I know we opened one of them and we seen what it was, that it was a lot of personal letters and stuff and a letterhead that this Paine fellow had told us about, and he said, "That's from the people he writes to in Russia"; he was talking about this letterhead we had pulled out and so I just pushed it all back down and shut it and took the whole works.

Mr. Liebeler. I have been advised that some story has developed that at some point that when you went out there you found seven file cabinets full of cards that had the names on them of pro-Castro sympathizers or something of that kind, but you don't remember seeing any of them?

Mr. Walthers. Well, that could have been one, but I didn't see it.

Mr. Liebeler. There certainly weren't any seven file cabinets with the stuff you got out there or anything like that?

Mr. Walthers. I picked up all of these file cabinets and what all of them contained, I don't know myself to this day.

Mr. Liebeler. As I was sitting here listening to your story, I could see where that story might have come from--you mentioned the "Fair Play for Cuba" leaflets that were in a barrel.

Mr. Walthers. That's right--we got a stack of them out of that barrel, but things get all twisted around.

In an article published on the Kennedys and King site, “Oswald’s Intelligence Connections”, July 29, 2017, DiEugenio claimed of the original sentence in the Nov 22, 1963 report, fifty-four years after its author and sole proponent, Walthers, repudiated the error on July 23, 1964:

“This cinches the case that the Paines were domestic surveillance agents” (https://www.kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/oswald-s-intelligence-connections-how-richard-schweiker-clashes-with-fake-history). (emphasis added)

Talk about "hanging judge" logic! 

One is left speechless at this, in which any unverified claim put into print even one time, no matter how much contradicted by other evidence and later published corrections, retains its currency undiminished in sectors of JFK assassination conspiracy-believer circles fifty-four years later and is considered to “cinch” a case against Ruth Paine. 

The contents of those cabinets were Ruth Paine’s personal property and should never have been taken by Dallas police or sheriff's deputies. Neither police nor the FBI nor the Warren Commission had any right to Ruth’s personal papers without her permission or a search warrant. But never mind that—the important point here is that the contents of those file boxes were examined, reviewed, and known to the Dallas police and FBI and there was no surveillance of leftists in them or anything else of the sort, nor anything incriminating of Ruth of anything, all perfectly mundane personal papers. It is not as if there is some mystery over what was in that property of Ruth Paine's. What DiEugenio calls "fiddl[ing]" reflects the return of Ruth’s property, a citizen's property, to her. 

Nor is there any indication that Ruth or Michael were involved in surveillance of leftists independently of what was not found in those seven file boxes.

Apart from attendance at a Dallas Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) meeting, a respected mainstream civil liberties advocacy organization of which Michael and Ruth Paine were members, there is no known attendance of Ruth or Michael at any left-wing meeting in Dallas. No known association of either Michael or Ruth with leftists other than Lee as Marina’s husband. No document ever indicating Ruth or Michael were involved in “surveillance of the American left”. Neither Ruth nor Michael are known to have attended a meeting concerning Cuba or Castro sympathizers. 

There is also an issue of plausibility. Ruth was functioning as a single mom of two toddlers demanding pretty much full-time attention. Just in practical terms how would she surveil leftists. There is no trace of evidence of such and DiEugenio's representations of Ruth Paine in this way in this film without the producer doing elementary fact-checking before airing this is nothing other than a gratuitous and shameful smear of Ruth Paine pure and simple.

From the film:

Ruth Paine (a film clip speaking to an audience): I learned a lot about what is written isn’t always true, in newspapers and magazines. One magazine said the police took out seven file boxes of Cuban sympathizers’ names. Well, there were my three boxes of folk dance records [audience laughter], my three little file boxes of my college papers, and a projector for a 16 mm camera. Those were the seven boxes of Cuban names.

Max Good (displaying a metal file holder to Atesi): This is one of the so-called filing cabinets that contains—there’s a report that they contained names and info on Cuban sympathizers.

Joe Atesi (shaking head): Yeah I think that’s nonsense. This is who I used to work for years ago. [shows plexiglass embossed seal of “Defense Investigative Services, United States of America”]. I was a Special Agent, did background investigations for the government, and—just, you know, for security clearances—so I’ve got a natural curiosity. In 2013 I found out that Ruth Paine was living right here in Santa Rosa and a friendship developed, we’re not best of friends, but, you know, she knows me well and she likes me enough that she’s given me some very interesting items. This entire album here [showing album] is relating to the Paines and the many things they’ve assigned to me. This [showing cardboard box] is Ruth’s texts of FBI investigative reports that she obtained under the Freedom of Information Act. She’s read books, she’s got a collection, her notes are on here. And certainly I’m sure she went through all of this and read all of it. She’s an avid student of the assassination herself. This is Ruth speaking to me in August 2017 [holds letter]. She says “Thanks for all the work investigating what was available on the internet.” She wanted me to find out about this particular Warren Commission exhibit [a different metal filing box than the one Good showed but the same kind]. It says “Commission Exhibit No. 458”. [Continuing to read] “There is certainly a lot of misinformation traveling around the internet. All the things the police took were taken without my permission.”

Narrator: When the issue of the contents of the file cabinets came up Ruth’s testimony was taken off the record, and the exhibit numbers were omitted without explanation. [Camera closeup of Warren Commission testimony showing going off the record.]

There are lots of “off the record”’s in the Warren Commission witness testimony transcripts. In the absence of knowledge of what was discussed, this is no basis for assuming something untoward was discussed and yet this is presented in the film as if that is being insinuated. The physical metal file boxes were returned to Ruth because they were her property. The Warren Commission had no right to the personal property of a citizen who was not under investigation and without a search warrant. That the Warren Commission left intact exhibit numbers which originally may have been occupied by Ruth’s metal file holders, without explanation in the Warren Report, is none of Ruth’s concern nor does it have anything to do with anything.

Is Ruth Paine due an apology from Max Good for airing this completely bogus accusation that "Ruth Paine had files of names of Cuban sympathizers in her garage", for not doing the most basic fact-checking of that claim of DiEugenio before airing it?

Where is the justice for Ruth Paine?

[James DiEugenio]

And was not Michael doing that, smoking out commie symps,  literally across from a college campus at a student hangout.

[Ron Bulman]

3 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

And was not Michael doing that, smoking out commie symps,  literally across from a college campus at a student hangout.

As well as taking Ozzie to ACLU meetings, then the exact opposite to a General Walker gathering and attending John Birch Society meetings.  Considering his family history, flunking out of Harvard (or whatever Ivy League school it was), his trust fund and more.  How much more circumstantial evidence would a logical person need to believe him suspicious in his incriminating Lee to police immediately after the assassination?

[Greg Doudna]

18 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

And was not Michael doing that, smoking out commie symps,  literally across from a college campus at a student hangout.

Irrelevant to issue of the false statement regarding Ruth Paine's file boxes.

Also, "smoking out commie symps" a total fabrication, not a document anywhere claiming that of Michael Paine. The only two students he was known to have talked to in a Lubys cafeteria were not commie symps. 

Is it possible to acknowledge and apologize for a specific false accusation you made against a person who is innocent of that specific accusation that you made?

Is it you just don't care? 

[Greg Doudna]

On 5/4/2022 at 12:05 PM, W. Niederhut said:

Unless, of course, they were tracking commies for the Quakers... 🤥

BTW, wasn't Nixon-- the man who carpet-bombed Cambodia-- also a Quaker?

Not in the view of Friends he wasn't. 

He was raised in a Quaker home as a child.

I have met Nixon relatives who are Friends. They tried everything during the Nixon presidency to meet with him and appeal to him to end those actions in southeast Asia, tried to invite him to attend the Washington, D.C. Friends Meeting (since he was claiming to be Quaker). It did not work.

In 1965 Norman Morrison, 31 years old, member of the Baltimore Friends Meeting, immolated himself in front of the White House Pentagon in protest of the Vietnam war. That action horrified Friends as much as the rest of the nation, but I have read more than one account of how disturbing that was to some of the men in high places inside the White House running their operations of great darkness on other peoples of the world. who looked out their windows and saw that.

Edited May 7, 2022 by Greg Doudna

[Joseph McBride]

Morrison immolated himself in front of the Pentagon, not the White House.

McNamara witnessed it and was troubled by it.

[James DiEugenio]

From John Armstrong, Harvey and Lee, pp. 879-80: 

 

According to Walthers, the detective found "about 7 metal boxes which contained pamphlets and literature from abroad, in Ruth Paine's garage.  Walthers said, "The records appeared to be names and activities of Cuban sympathizers."

  For some reason these 7 metal boxes were not listed in the DPD inventory sheets for November 22 and it remains unknown what happened to these boxes.  

 

Larry Hancock wrote about these file boxes also through the very rare Eric Tagg book about Walthers.  From what I can find, once these got to the FBI and then the WC they were pretty much stripped.

Edited May 6, 2022 by James DiEugenio

[James DiEugenio]

I was wrong, the Tagg book is online

 

https://archive.org/stream/brushwithhistory--adayinthelifeofdeputye.r.waltherserictagg1998/Brush with History—A Day in the Life of Deputy E. R. Walthers%2C Eric Tagg (1998)_djvu.txt

[Greg Doudna]

4 hours ago, Joseph McBride said:

Morrison immolated himself in front of the Pentagon, not the White House.

McNamara witnessed it and was troubled by it.

Thanks Joseph McBride you are right. 

[Ron Bulman]

On 8/5/2017 at 10:07 AM, Ray Mitcham said:

Buddy Walthers

"Upon searching this house we found stacks of hand bills concerning "Cuba for Freedom" advertising, seeking publicity and support for Cuba. Also found was a set of metal file cabinets containing records that appeared to be names and activities of Cuban sympathizers. All of this evidence was confiscated and turned over to Captain Fritz of the Dallas Police Department and Secret Service Officers at the City Hall."

"Mr. WALTHERS. You could tell it from the way it was tied and the impression of where that barrel went up in it where it was tied, that a rifle had been tied in it, but what kind---you couldn't tell, but you could tell a rifle had been wrapped up in it, and then we found some little metal file cabinets---I don't know what kind you would call them---they would carry an 8 by 10 folder, all right, but with a single handle on top of it and the handle moves. 
Mr. LIEBELER. About how many of them would you think there were? 
Mr. WALTHERS. There were six or seven, I believe, and I put them all in the trunk of my car and we also found a box of pictures, a bunch of pictures that we taken. 

 

 "Some imagination."

6 or 7, 8 X 10.

[Ron Bulman]

On 7/10/2020 at 1:08 AM, Ron Bulman said:

See the barrel in the back ground?

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10897#relPageId=11&tab=page

"Libeler, ... you found seven file cabinets full of cards that had the names of pro Castro sympathizers on them, but you don't remember seeing any of them..."

Walthers, "could have been one, but I didn't see it."

Libeler, "you mentioned the Fair Play For Cuba leaflets that were in a barrel".

Walthers:  "That's right - we got a stack of them out of that barrel..."

 

Has anyone ever thought to contemplate this?

FPCC pamphlets distributed by Oswald multiple time over the summer of 1963 by Oswald. 

FPCC pamphlets with 544 Camp street stamped on them distributed one day only per Garrison.

Dallas County District Attorney Henry Wade corrected by Jack Ruby on 11/22/63 "That's the Fair Play For Cuba Committee, Henry"

A barrel with FPCC pamphlets in it in Michael and Ruth Paine's garage on 11/22/63.  Per a Dallas County Deputy Sheriff.

I guess Lee hitchhiked or rode a bus from New Orleans per Ruth's testimony toting the 6-7 small file cabinets And the barrel full of Fair Play For Cuba flyers?  As well as the rifle?

Edited May 26, 2022 by Ron Bulman

[Ron Bulman]

On 7/21/2020 at 1:27 AM, Max Good said:

Here is one of the original file cabinets.  It is in the possession of a collector in California who got it from Ruth in the last few years.  Note that it is labeled as CE 458 and CE 457-458 are footnoted with "These numbers were not used." in WC volume XVII.  https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1134#relPageId=7&tab=page

 

I've not bumped this thread in a couple of years now.  Probably the best one I've ever started, though Two Oswald's in the Texas Theater turned out pretty informative as well. Many comments from people I respect.  Not much deflection.  Re reading it I thought Max is really Good, is he not?

I think the Stones got it wrong.  It was not you and me.  But they got it right, the devil is in the details, maybe David Talbot might agree?  I've never seen this version from Austin, Tx before.  Keef gets to jam with Ronnie Woods playing lead in the back ground on some of it.  Good stuff.