Bob Dylan song about JFK assassination

[Chuck Schwartz]

There were a great deal of eyewitnesses that contradicted the Warren Commission that died an unnatural death ( car accidents, plane accidents, suicide, murder, etc.).Belzer's " Hit List" is a good book on this subject.  At the end of the movie " Executive Action " Lloyds of London was quoted as saying that the odds were 100,000 trillion to one that all the eyewitnesses of the JFK Assassination would die of unnatural causes within 3 yrs. of the Big Event.

[Pamela Brown]

On 4/13/2021 at 6:33 PM, Richard Booth said:

He would have been shot, and A.J. Weberman would have been setup as the patsy for his murder. "Crazed fan shoots Dylan" ...

Dylan could have asked questions about the WCR without risking his life. And, while we're at it, let's not beg the question of those who did. I imagine Dylan's people wanted to distance him from the event. Fortunately, Suze Rotolo was taking herself out of the picture by then.  She was a firm Communist, as was her family. Dylan's manager Albert Grossman made sure to introduce him to a girl with a good background ...Sara Lownds. And he made sure to replace Suze with his wife Sally on the cover of Bringing it all Back Home.  

Here's my post that references Suze and Sally...

https://dylagence.wordpress.com/2021/03/12/a-possible-connection-in-the-vortex-odd-references-in-bob-dylans-my-own-version-of-you/

Edited April 18, 2021 by Pamela Brown

[Pamela Brown]

On 4/13/2021 at 6:25 PM, Richard Booth said:

Hi Pam,

This absolutely happened. There is a podcast called "Wind of Change" which is a podcast about investigating whether or not the German rock band "The Scorpions" was used by the CIA at the end of the Cold War. Their song, "Wind of Change" is basically about the fall of the Berlin Wall and collapse of the USSR, and it became a #1 hit--you may be familiar with it. It swept through the USSR and the youth loved it.

The podcast was a result of a discussion one of the podcasters had with a high ranking former CIA agent. The CIA officer told him that the CIA was responsible for the "Wind of Change" song. You can see more about the theory here:

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2020/may/15/wind-of-change-did-the-cia-write-the-cold-wars-biggest-anthem

During the podcast, the podcasters contacted and spoke to a number of CIA officials: Burton Gerber, Milt Bearden, Jonna Mendez, and a few more, and asked each one about the story. Most of them denied it. However, one agent told them about a dinner party that Senior Intelligence Staff members attended in the 2000s. She said that there was a "rock star" present at the party, and one of the members asked the rock star why he was there, how he knew all of the predominantly CIA employees. The rock star replied that during the cold war, the agency had used him for some of their "messaging"

The CIA is sending glomar responses and non-denial denials when you send FOIA requests about the CIA possibly being involved with the Scorpions' "Wind of Change" song. One agent told the podcasters that one of the primary reasons the agency would avoid this subject is because the practice of using pop stars to saturate pop culture with ideas is still probably being carried out--it's still an active source/method.

With this in mind I wonder just how many pop/rock stars might have been part of some kind of CIA operation. 

Regarding "Wind of Change" -- I tend to believe the CIA officer who says the agency was involved in that song. And one thing I noted that was very interesting, is that song was released in three languages. There was the English language version, there was a version recorded in Russian, and a version recorded in Spanish. Now, tell me this, how many rock bands released 3 different language versions of a song!? That struck me as unusual! 

Another thing, too, is when I look at the lyrics to Wind of Change and compare those lyrics to other Scorpions songs, it's quite evident to me that the lyrical and poetic sophistication in 'Wind of Change' was leaps and bounds above the level on display in other Scorpions songs. Most of their material looks like it was written by a fifth grader, with very crude lyrics and little poetic value.  

This is very insightful. I agree.  Thank you...

[Pamela Brown]

One thing that I would really like an answer to is what possible stake a network could have in trying to manipulate the investigation -- or non investigation -- of the JFK assassination.

Why did NBC go after Jim Garrison? He was conducting a legal investigation.

I also wonder if Bob Dylan was told to stand back in his non-response to the WCR by CBS, for whom he recorded.

If so, would his non-response to the WCR have had a profit-motive? eg -- being a dissenter was unpopular and could have cost them.  If that were the case, the logical follow-up question is was the timing of MMF profit-motivated? And, if so, to what end...

[Robert Burrows]

28 minutes ago, Pamela Brown said:

One thing that I would really like an answer to is what possible stake a network could have in trying to manipulate the investigation -- or non investigation -- of the JFK assassination.

Why did NBC go after Jim Garrison? He was conducting a legal investigation.

I also wonder if Bob Dylan was told to stand back in his non-response to the WCR by CBS, for whom he recorded.

If so, would his non-response to the WCR have had a profit-motive? eg -- being a dissenter was unpopular and could have cost them.  If that were the case, the logical follow-up question is was the timing of MMF profit-motivated? And, if so, to what end...

I don't believe that Bob Dylan ever worried much about being popular, given his penchant for alienating large segments of his audience (i.e. by "going electric" in 1965 or by converting to Christianity in 1979.) 

I also believe that Dylan was well aware of the potential of becoming a victim of the mindless menace of the violence. 

 

 

[W. Niederhut]

2 hours ago, Robert Burrows said:

I don't believe that Bob Dylan ever worried much about being popular, given his penchant for alienating large segments of his audience (i.e. by "going electric" in 1965 or by converting to Christianity in 1979.) 

Exactly right, Robert.

Dylan always lived by his own iconoclastic moral lights.  He infuriated Pete Seeger and the folk purists in Newport when he went electric, and didn't really give a damn.

Some of my friends-- serious fellow Dylan fans-- were utterly appalled when Dylan converted to Christianity back in the day.  For them, it was experienced as a very upsetting, "cultural" betrayal of Judaism.

The music from that phase of Dylan's career is my least favorite, personally, but I viewed it as part of a serious, existential and spiritual quest.

[Robert Burrows]

36 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

Exactly right, Robert.

Dylan always lived by his own iconoclastic moral lights.  He infuriated Pete Seeger and the folk purists in Newport when he went electric, and didn't really give a damn.

Some of my friends-- serious fellow Dylan fans-- were utterly appalled when Dylan converted to Christianity back in the day.  For them, it was experienced as a very upsetting, "cultural" betrayal of Judaism.

The music from that phase of Dylan's career is my least favorite, personally, but I viewed it as part of a serious, existential and spiritual quest.

There's some beautiful stuff on the Bootleg Series set that covers Dylan's gospel phase. I think that the previously unreleased "Making A xxxx Out Of Me" is a gem.

 

 

[Pamela Brown]

5 hours ago, Robert Burrows said:

I don't believe that Bob Dylan ever worried much about being popular, given his penchant for alienating large segments of his audience (i.e. by "going electric" in 1965 or by converting to Christianity in 1979.) 

I also believe that Dylan was well aware of the potential of becoming a victim of the mindless menace of the violence. 

 

 

I think it is correct to say that in his general conversations and relationships Dylan doesn't pander to people, but you may not completely understand what Dylan is all about. That's the way it's supposed to be. But I happen to think I can unravel it. Dylan has been re-invented a number of times to keep him positioned where his team want him to be.  You will notice that his protest songs don't invoke actual protest, for example. He has been positioned in such a way as to seem to be part of the anti-establishment while really keeping the dissidents quiet and more focused on him than on any real causes.

Dylan has been re-invented a few times.  The slightly scraggly folk singer gave way to the thin and eccentrically dressed heroin waif.  Then, after the motorcycle accident, things got serious.  He was reinvented as a good family man. Etc, etc.  All this was done for reasons decided upon by his team, not simply by him. All of the sweeping changes he and his team made that alienated people were calculated and done for a reason. 

And throughout all this he never mentioned a word about the WCR having issues...

 

Edited April 19, 2021 by Pamela Brown

[W. Niederhut]

14 hours ago, Pamela Brown said:

I think it is correct to say that in his general conversations and relationships Dylan doesn't pander to people, but you may not completely understand what Dylan is all about. That's the way it's supposed to be. But I happen to think I can unravel it. Dylan has been re-invented a number of times to keep him positioned where his team want him to be.  You will notice that his protest songs don't invoke actual protest, for example. He has been positioned in such a way as to seem to be part of the anti-establishment while really keeping the dissidents quiet and more focused on him than on any real causes.

Dylan has been re-invented a few times.  The slightly scraggly folk singer gave way to the thin and eccentrically dressed heroin waif.  Then, after the motorcycle accident, things got serious.  He was reinvented as a good family man. Etc, etc.  All this was done for reasons decided upon by his team, not simply by him. All of the sweeping changes he and his team made that alienated people were calculated and done for a reason. 

And throughout all this he never mentioned a word about the WCR having issues...

 

Pamela, what Dylan "team" are you referring to here?

And, surely, you're not suggesting that Dylan "reinvented" himself as a Christian convert in 1979 as part of a judicious career move?

Many of his most dedicated fans were aghast at the time.

As for the sincerity of his protest songs, I beg to differ with your opinion.

I believe Dylan was completely sincere in his profound criticism of the military-industrial complex (e.g., his Masters of War song written shortly after the Cuban Missile Crisis) and his support for the Civil Rights movement. As a young man he even went to Mississippi with Pete Seeger at a time when Civil Rights protesters in the South were being beaten and murdered.

Edited April 19, 2021 by W. Niederhut

[Robert Burrows]

7 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

Pamela, what Dylan "team" are you referring to here?

And, surely, you're not suggesting that Dylan "reinvented" himself as a Christian convert in 1979 as part of a judicious career move?

Many of his most dedicate fans were aghast at the time.

As for the sincerity of his protest songs, I beg to differ with your opinion.

I believe Dylan was completely sincere in his profound criticism of the military-industrial complex (e.g., his Masters of War song written shortly after the Cuban Missile Crisis) and his support for the Civil Rights movement. As a young man he even went to Mississippi with Pete Seeger at a time when Civil Rights protesters in the South were being beaten and murdered.

Well said. The time that Bob Dylan walked off the set of the Ed Sullivan show:

https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/bob-dylan-walked-out-ed-sullivan-show-censor/

 

[Pamela Brown]

22 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

Pamela, what Dylan "team" are you referring to here?

And, surely, you're not suggesting that Dylan "reinvented" himself as a Christian convert in 1979 as part of a judicious career move?

Many of his most dedicated fans were aghast at the time.

As for the sincerity of his protest songs, I beg to differ with your opinion.

I believe Dylan was completely sincere in his profound criticism of the military-industrial complex (e.g., his Masters of War song written shortly after the Cuban Missile Crisis) and his support for the Civil Rights movement. As a young man he even went to Mississippi with Pete Seeger at a time when Civil Rights protesters in the South were being beaten and murdered.

Dylan has always been presented as a product.  That takes a team.  CBS, John Hammond, to start. Albert Grossman.  Ad strategies were used to promote him, including featuring the kind of clothes he wore in dept stores.  Surely you don't think Dylan did all that on his own?

As for his being saved, I do agree that is a mystery.  I do think Dylan thought it was a good thing.  The charismatic Christian movement opened up new doors.  Keith Richard even called him the "Prophet of Profit." 

Dylan did do some valuable things as part of the civil rights movement.  He also left a gaping hole, to my thinking, when he said not one word about the Jonestown massacre.  That happened about the same time he was saved, ironically. 

There are a lot of layers to Dylan that most people don't realize.  As he contacted me, I can speak from my own impressions.  https://dylagence.wordpress.com/2020/05/10/whats-up-mr-dylan-is-someone-posing-as-you/

 

Edited April 20, 2021 by Pamela Brown

[Robert Burrows]

5 hours ago, Pamela Brown said:

Dylan has always been presented as a product.  That takes a team.  CBS, John Hammond, to start. Albert Grossman.  Ad strategies were used to promote him, including featuring the kind of clothes he wore in dept stores.  Surely you don't think Dylan did all that on his own?

As for his being saved, I do agree that is a mystery.  I do think Dylan thought it was a good thing.  The charismatic Christian movement opened up new doors.  Keith Richard even called him the "Prophet of Profit." 

Dylan did do some valuable things as part of the civil rights movement.  He also left a gaping hole, to my thinking, when he said not one word about the Jonestown massacre.  That happened about the same time he was saved, ironically. 

There are a lot of layers to Dylan that most people don't realize.  As he contacted me, I can speak from my own impressions.  https://dylagence.wordpress.com/2020/05/10/whats-up-mr-dylan-is-someone-posing-as-you/

 

Paul is dead redux, ad nauseam. 

[Pamela Brown]

On 4/20/2021 at 2:28 AM, Robert Burrows said:

Paul is dead redux, ad nauseam. 

With all due respect, you may be missing my point.

Everything is orchestrated. Dylan is not the only credible performer presented as a product and directed by a team, but I think he was one of the first.  I don't think we can understand the Ongoing Coverup of the assassination of JFK and also RFK without taking into account the impact of the networks and those represented by them on the unsuspecting citizens of this country. To this day, most of us would rather be happily distracted by the songs, words and events in the lives of some of our favorite performers than on fighting to hold onto the rights they are not telling us are important...

[Ron Bulman]

On 3/27/2020 at 1:19 AM, Joseph McBride said:

 

Bump. A moving listen, worth re listening to.

[Pamela Brown]

Bob Dylan possible mysterious connection to the Mozart vortex?  New post on Dylagence...

https://dylagence.wordpress.com/2021/04/25/and-at-the-center-of-the-vortex/

Edited April 29, 2021 by Pamela Brown