The inevitable end result of our last 56 years

[Matt Allison]

2 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Well, add The Colombia Journalism Review, and its writer Jeff Gerth and editor Kyle Pope to those who say Russiagate was largely a hoax, aided by a complicit media. 

Let's try a different tack here, Ben.

What exactly was a hoax regarding the Russia story?

Just succinctly and very briefly lay out the points for me, in order, as I did when I explained my position to you.

[W. Niederhut]

3 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Well, add The Colombia Journalism Review, and its writer Jeff Gerth and editor Kyle Pope to those who say Russiagate was largely a hoax, aided by a complicit media. 

 

46 minutes ago, Matt Allison said:

Let's try a different tack here, Ben.

What exactly was a hoax regarding the Russia story?

Just succinctly and very briefly lay out the points for me, in order, as I did when I explained my position to you.

Matt,

     Ben's CJR articles (above) don't demonstrate that, "Russiagate was a hoax," at all.  But people need to study the facts to understand that.

     So, you are quite correct to re-focus Ben on the actual facts about Russiagate.   

     I took the time to post a detailed summary of the Russiagate facts for Ben and Mathew this week.

     They had no response to the summary.

     What was it Paul Simon wrote -- "Still, a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest?"

Edited February 2, 2023 by W. Niederhut

[Steve Thomas]

Do you remember the lawsuit that Donald Trump filed against Hillary Clinton and like 35 other people?

And the lawsuit was so bad that the judge  not only threw the lawsuit out, but also jointly fined Trump and his lawyer $1,000,000 for filing such a frivolous lawsuit in the first place?

Well, Trump just fired the lawyer.

It's all her fault.

https://www.rawstory.com/trump-replaces-yet-another-lawyer-after-she-is-sanctioned-for-frivolous-election-lawsuits-report/

And the beat goes on...

The beat goes on...

Steve Thomas

[Ron Bulman]

5 hours ago, John Cotter said:

Yep, those anti-Russian sanctions and the blowing up of the Nordstream natural gas pipeline have really worked a treat.

True.  But not the whole story for me at least.  Why waste my time on this thread where it will disappear in a couple of hours?  Nowhere else to express my frustration.  Maybe an initial trial run of a letter to the editors of a few Texas newspapers, the few that are left.

Valentines day 2021. 0 degrees Stephenville, Texas.  Rolling blackouts, little. heat, no water, for days.  Worse elsewhere, many Texans died.  

After about three days of this Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones CEO of his natural gas company said words to the effect of "unbelievable profits, we're getting rich".   Because some gas facilities were themselves frozen.  Demand outstripped supply.  Prices went up.   Unreasonably, Usery, price gouging of working people, and retirees like me.

Electric delivery services like Brazos Electric went Bankrupt.  Refinanced, cost somewhat reduced in litigation.  The rest passed on to us over the nest 20 years plus.

All because we Texans insist on unregulated independence from the National grids. 

Then natural gas prices doubled in the last year.   

[Matt Allison]

Hmm, according to this nat gas futures are at their lowest price in 2 years.

https://www.cnbc.com/quotes/@NG.1

But I do know that Texas runs it's own energy grid and infrastructure.

Back when I was running my studio, that kind of electric bill would have sunk me; 2,000 sq ft and gear running 24/7... no chance

[Benjamin Cole]

1 hour ago, W. Niederhut said:

 

Matt,

     Ben's CJR articles (above) don't demonstrate that, "Russiagate was a hoax," at all.  But people need to study the facts to understand that.

     So, you are quite correct to re-focus Ben on the actual facts about Russiagate.   

     I took the time to post a detailed summary of the Russiagate facts for Ben and Mathew this week.

     They had no response to the summary.

     What was it Paul Simon wrote -- "Still, a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest?"

W-

Well, we have to agree to disagree on this one. 

When CJR's Jeff Gerth and Kyle Pope, both veteran news reporters, join Brett Stephens (NYT), Matt Taibbi, Glenn Greenwald, Kim Iversen, Krystal Ball, Saagar Enjeti, Ryan Grim, Emily Jashinsky and others whose names I forget, in generally defining Russiagate as a hoax, or at least considering the topic one the illustrates a collusion between media and the intel state, then I think the topic is open to discussion. 

As Peter Strzok said himself, "There is no big there, there." 

As students of the JFKA, we should be skeptical of official storylines and complicit M$M coverage, as well as the growing alliance among Donks, financial and global elites, the military-industrial complex, media and the intel state. 

This ain't JFK's party. 

The House 'Phants are now going to launch an investigation into some of these issues (although not the JFKA---what else is new?). 

I expect little from the 'Phants, and they will be able to release a report on their  "investigation." Politicized investigations are usually highly misleading---see the WC, 9/11, or 1/6 "investigations."  

Stay independent, is my advice. 

 

[Matt Allison]

36 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

CJR's Jeff Gerth and Kyle Pope, both veteran news reporters, join Brett Stephens (NYT), Matt Taibbi, Glenn Greenwald, Kim Iversen, Krystal Ball, Saagar Enjeti, Ryan Grim, Emily Jashinsky and others whose names I forget, in generally defining Russiagate as a hoax

I'm not looking for a list of people bellowing "hoax" or "witch hunt" or whatever; anyone in need of that only has to subject themselves to Donald Trump's rantings.

I want to know specifically what you're talking about.

With regard to Trump's Russia connections, which part is a hoax?

[Steve Thomas]

Letter from Hunter Biden to the Department of Justice requesting that the Department open an investigation into John Paul Mac Isaac, Rudy Giuliani, Steve Bannon, et.al for the interstate transport of stolen property across state lines.

This applies to any computers and the personal data to be found on them.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23595947-letter-to-ns-aag-re-request-for-investigation

Wonder what that will do to all those big Republican plans.

Trafficking in stolen goods...

Steve Thomas

 

[Benjamin Cole]

32 minutes ago, Matt Allison said:

I'm not looking for a list of people bellowing "hoax" or "witch hunt" or whatever; anyone in need of that only has to subject themselves to Donald Trump's rantings.

I want to know specifically what you're talking about.

With regard to Trump's Russia connections, which part is a hoax?

Matt:

Well, we could go on for hours. 

In so many investigations, what is called a "connection," a "tie," or a "link"...means what?

For example, LHO visited Valerie Kostikov in Mexico City...so is LHO is "linked" to KGB's Department 13, known for wet work (assassinations)? It is suspicious, but is it meaningful? Is it meaningful in the way intended? 

It is indisputable that Manafort sucked down millions of dollars from Deripaska, evidently a Russian oligarch. In my view, Manafort was either working for, or grifting from Moscow kleptocrats (Deripaska came to believe grifting).  

Manafort evidently gave Trump campaign polling data to Deripaska---Manafort says limited basic info, but who knows? 

And? So what? An oligarch knows what polling data says? 

The whole Russian bots influence story has also been debunked (Twittergate). 

Manafort was found guilty of grifting type crimes, and deserved prison. Trump pardoned Manafort, showing Trump was either loyal to a fault, or lacking character.

I am unsure of Manafort's obstruction of justice charges. 

Explain the Carter Page debacle. That poor guy was guilty of nothing, and yet was defined in the M$M as a Moscow stooge. On bogus FISA submissions to the FISA court. Hey, if they can do that to Carter Page, they can do it to anybody. You should be angered. 

The Alfa Bank "link" turns out to been some sort of automatic pinging software impulse. 

At bottom, showing that people have "links," "ties," "connections" is not enough. Remember the purported restaurant meeting among underlings that "linked"  Saddam Hussain to 9/11? Maybe it did, maybe it didn't. Since we do not know what was discussed in the meeting....

Also, at bottom, the Mueller report was a government investigation, with no opposing narrative or defense counsel present. 

Even so, IMHO, there is no there, there. 

----

LHO met with Kostikov. And you conclude? 

(I suspect the CIA arranged that meeting, by intentionally leaking provocative info to Kostikov...but that is only my speculation). 

 

 

[John Cotter]

2 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

True.  But not the whole story for me at least.  Why waste my time on this thread where it will disappear in a couple of hours?  Nowhere else to express my frustration.  Maybe an initial trial run of a letter to the editors of a few Texas newspapers, the few that are left.

Valentines day 2021. 0 degrees Stephenville, Texas.  Rolling blackouts, little. heat, no water, for days.  Worse elsewhere, many Texans died.  

After about three days of this Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones CEO of his natural gas company said words to the effect of "unbelievable profits, we're getting rich".   Because some gas facilities were themselves frozen.  Demand outstripped supply.  Prices went up.   Unreasonably, Usery, price gouging of working people, and retirees like me.

Electric delivery services like Brazos Electric went Bankrupt.  Refinanced, cost somewhat reduced in litigation.  The rest passed on to us over the nest 20 years plus.

All because we Texans insist on unregulated independence from the National grids. 

Then natural gas prices doubled in the last year.   

I see your point, Ron. Deregulation exacerbates the worst effects of capitalism.

My post was partly prompted by a WhatsApp message from a friend in Ireland yesterday complaining about her latest gas bill.

[Sandy Larsen]

On 1/31/2023 at 7:58 PM, Matthew Koch said:

You don't even know what a "Liberal" is and are not using in the right context.

 

I most certainly do know what a liberal is, given that I've been politically liberal for more than 35 years.

 

On 1/31/2023 at 7:58 PM, Matthew Koch said:

liberal

adjective

respecting and allowing many different types of beliefs or behavior: 

a liberal society/attitude

 

 

That is one of the definitions of the word "liberal".... technically speaking not the definition of liberal when used in the context of politics. A political liberal is one who believes the principles of political liberalism, which include the following:

lib·er·al·ism

/ˈlib(ə)rəˌliz(ə)m/

noun: liberalism

2. a political and social philosophy that promotes individual rights, civil liberties, democracy, and free enterprise.

 

Another major principle of American liberalism that sets it apart from American conservatism is government support for the needy.

 

 

On 1/31/2023 at 7:58 PM, Matthew Koch said:

You are not a "Liberal" just like most of the people here who have TDS, you are a partisan leftist Democrat who parrots the propaganda he see on MSNPC and doesn't think it's biased.

 

"Partisan leftist Democrats" ARE liberals, as you can see in the chart below. (See "Left" on the first line of text, "Democrats" on the third line, and "Liberal" on the fifth line.)

 

 

 

[Sandy Larsen]

On 1/31/2023 at 7:23 PM, Benjamin Cole said:

The Columbia Journalism Review is more or less saying Russiagate was a hoax story.

 

 

That is not true Ben. The article criticizes The New York Times' coverage of it. I think it even says so in the title of the article.

 

There may not have been enough evidence to indict Trump for his alleged role in Russiagate. But Russiagate most definitely did occur, just as Mueller said it did.

 

 

[Benjamin Cole]

43 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

 

That is not true Ben. The article criticizes The New York Times' coverage of it. I think it even says so in the title of the article.

 

There may not have been enough evidence to indict Trump for his alleged role in Russiagate. But Russiagate most definitely did occur, just as Mueller said it did.

 

 

SL--

But what happened?

I repeat: A man (even the loathsome Trump) is not guilty until proven innocent. He is innocent until proven guilty. 

There were meetings between Trumpies and Russian agents for oligarchs. It is alleged that one agent also was a Russian intel asset. We do not know if Manafort knew if that oligarch agent was also an intel asset.

There are "links," "ties" and "connections" and so on. Manafort bilked Deripaska out of millions likely. 

Other parts of Russiagate are softer than a month-old banana. Carter Page? Alfa Bank? The Steel Dossier? 

But even Deripaska sneered at the idea Manafort was a Russian asset. 

No one has charged Trump with a crime re Russiagate, let alone won a conviction. 

You have to have a crime to prosecute. Where is the crime? People say Manafort gave polling data to Deripaska. So what? 

The Twittergate follies show the Russian bots and influencers angle was US globalist state propaganda (btw, the same neo-libs and neo-cons that get the US into repeated occupational wars). 

Russiagate has the look of a regime change-op, or soft coup, with the usual media complicity. 

This goes way beyond red or blue. This is neo-libs and neo-cons asserting control. 

That's my story, and I am sticking with it (IMHO!). 

 

[Sandy Larsen]

On 1/31/2023 at 7:58 PM, Matthew Koch said:

Defund the police killed alot of people, which you don't seem to care.

 

What do you mean, Defund the Police killed a lot of people?

I know about Treyvon Martin and George Floyd being killed by the police. I watched the whole George Floyd killing on video and must say that that was definitely a case of murder.

There were a couple of other unjustified killings of black kids back then, and now the recent killing of a young black man by five black officers. I believe I heard that they were being indicted for murder.... at least some of them.

I do care about those people. But I don't recall anything about the Defund the Police movement killing people.

 

On 1/31/2023 at 7:58 PM, Matthew Koch said:

There was no cherry picking I could put up a lot of more Clips of Joy Reed pushing the 1619 project. Do you even know what 1619 project that is Sandy??? I'm sure you don't....

 

You're right, I don't know what the 1619 Project is. And what does that tell you Matthew? I watch three primetime MSNBC shows daily and I've never heard of the 1619 Project. Nor had I ever seen before that Pundit on the Joy Reid show with his brief tirade against the slave-owning, misogynistic founding fathers. I don't know about them because they are on the fringe and not given much time on MSNBC. They are given zero time on primetime MSNBC  AFAIK.

Matthew, these crazy things that you come up with and claim that liberals believe in are really what just a few extremists believe.

 

On 1/31/2023 at 7:58 PM, Matthew Koch said:

....it's that our country was actually founded in 1619 by Slave Owning Racists. Which is the back bone to Critical Race theory propaganda Democrats what to poison children with after they teach them about Queer Theory and being Binary. These are the attacks on the family I mentioned earlier that you couldn't understand because MSNPC didn't tell you what to think.

 

Wait a second... earlier you said that MSNBC propagates these crazy things and that's the reason I believe them, because I watch MSNBC. But now you're your saying that MSNBC doesn't tell me what to believe? Please make up your mind.

Are you saying that MSNBC is propagating those things, but that I choose not to believe them?

 

[Sandy Larsen]

25 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

1 hour ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Russiagate most definitely did occur, just as Mueller said it did.

I repeat: A man (even the loathsome Trump) is not guilty until proven innocent. He is innocent until proven guilty.

 

Russiagate is not a man or woman. It cannot be tried in a court of law.

Russiagate is an incident, which can be discovered or verified with an investigation. Mueller investigated Russiagate and concluded that it indeed did happen.

Of course, you don't need to believe what Mueller reported. But if you want to have any credibility you should at least show flaws in Mueller's report. Otherwise it is all just speculation on your part.

And you shouldn't make false claims, like saying that a Columbia Journalism Review  article is more or less saying Russiagate was a hoax.