The inevitable end result of our last 56 years

[Guest]

Are you guys trialing 15 minute cities in the USA? Thoughts? 

 

[Jeff Carter]

3 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

More of your usual pettifoggery, eh, Jeff?

Far from "refuting basic established information," as you imply, I was simply setting the record straight, for Benjamin Cole, about Kilimnik's longstanding working relationship with Paul Manafort in Ukraine (since 2005.)

Ben had expressed skepticism about Manafort's knowledge of Kilimnik, when Manafort was working for the Kremlin in Ukraine.

Thanks for confirming that I was correct.

As for the question of whether Kilimnik is a Russian GRU intelligence agent, the Republican-controlled U.S. Senate Intelligence Committee concluded that he is.  I believe there is still an outstanding FBI warrant for his arrest.

As for Manafort's history of lying to Mueller's investigators about his 2016 campaign contacts with Kilimnik, where did I say that Manafort's polling data was shared with the GRU for the purpose of Russian social media propaganda?

On the contrary, my belief is that Manafort's polling data had more to do with GRU hacking of U.S. voter registration databases, for the purpose of manipulating vote tallies in key swing states.  (See the Intercept article above.)

 

So your longstanding endorsement of a Manafort/Kilimnik/polling-data/social-media theory has been replaced by a Manafort/Klimink/polling-data/voter-registration-database-hack theory. Note that the voter registration database hack concept is distinguished by an inability to determine who was responsible, what exactly occurred, and even uncertainty if anything occurred in the first place.

[W. Niederhut]

36 minutes ago, Jeff Carter said:

So your longstanding endorsement of a Manafort/Kilimnik/polling-data/social-media theory has been replaced by a Manafort/Klimink/polling-data/voter-registration-database-hack theory. Note that the voter registration database hack concept is distinguished by an inability to determine who was responsible, what exactly occurred, and even uncertainty if anything occurred in the first place.

Nice try, Jeff, but no cigar.  You're the guy who has repeatedly tried to limit any discussion of Putin's 2016 GRU election meddling to mere social media propaganda by Russian trolls.

In reality, Putin's interference in our 2016 election-- on behalf of his compromised stooge Donald Trump-- was multi-faceted.  

It involved channeling Russian money to the Trump campaign, divisive social media trolling in the U.S., hacking and strategic leaking of Democratic Emails, and direct GRU hacking of U.S. voting systems.

Edited February 18, 2023 by W. Niederhut

[Benjamin Cole]

direct GRU hacking of U.S. voting systems.---W

You have provided no evidence of this. 

In addition, if the GRU was able to directly hack US voting system, then surely US-based actors were also (even if operating from offshore). 

If you contend US voting systems can be hacked without concrete (or even flimsy) evidence of the hacking, then why trust either the 2016 or 2020 election?

Are the Trumpers right? The 2020 election could have been hacked? 

 

[John Cotter]

1 hour ago, W. Niederhut said:

Nice try, Jeff, but no cigar.  You're the guy who has repeatedly tried to limit any discussion of Putin's 2016 GRU election meddling to mere social media propaganda by Russian trolls.

In reality, Putin's interference in our 2016 election-- on behalf of his compromised stooge Donald Trump-- was multi-faceted.  

It involved channeling Russian money to the Trump campaign, divisive social media trolling in the U.S., hacking and strategic leaking of Democratic Emails, and direct GRU hacking of U.S. voting systems.

Aye, those darn Russians.

Where would you be without the Russians, William?

[Benjamin Cole]

Egads!

The far left-wing The Guardian (and these guys are serious left-wingers) writes this:

Trump’s Russiagate and the crisis of credibility of the US media

Avatans Kumar

According to the Reuters Institute for the Study of Journalism survey (2022), the US media has the lowest credibility, 26% among 46 nations, writes Jeff Gerth.

On 30 January 2023, the Columbia Journal Review (CJR) published a four-part investigative report on the now-debunked Russiagate narrative that suggested Putin’s Russian agencies, according to Pulitzer Prize-winning independent journalist Glenn Greenwald, “had infiltrated the US and was clandestinely controlling the levers of American power through some combination of sexual and financial blackmail.” CJR is a biannual magazine published by the Columbia University Graduate School of Journalism.
The report dives deep into several key aspects of Russiagate, also referred to as the Russian collusion controversy. It showed the mirror to American journalism and media, and the look in the mirror wasn’t so pretty. It shows how the press uncritically handled the now-discredited Steele dossier, inserted misleading facts, and ignored apparent lacunae in the story to fit their Russia collusion narrative.

The report is the result of painstaking work by Jeff Gerth. The 78-year-old Gerth is a former investigative journalist for the New York Times (NYT). He worked for the NYT between 1976 and 2005. He is the recipient of the prestigious Pulitzer Prize for covering the American satellite-launch technology to China.

https://www.sundayguardianlive.com/opinion/trumps-russiagate-crisis-credibility-us-media

---30---

The "now-debunked Russiagate narrative"!

So add The Guardian to the lengthy list of observers who no longer accept the M$M-intel Russiagate narrative. In fact, they call it "debunked." 

Really, the conversation in this forum should move forward, to an analysis of how such a debunked narrative gained traction---and who benefitted? 

If the M$M-intel state can foist such a narrative on the public, what other narratives are foisted? 

Dudes, let's move the conversation forward. Russiagate was a hoax. Get over it.

That does not make Trump a great guy, it does not mean the red kool-aid team wins, it is just (another) example of how the media is played, and then plays the US public. 

 

 

 

 

[Matt Allison]

50 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Dudes, let's move the conversation forward. Russiagate was a hoax. Get over it.

I'm confident everyone has noticed you don't address Trump's actual ties to Russia, Ben.

If you want to dwell on the strange tale of the bogus Steele dossier, feel free; even Mueller thought it was garbage.

But that doesn't erase everything else the Russians did to the U.S. in the 2016 election, does it?

[Matt Allison]

Meanwhile, how are things going with Putin's war crimes against humanity?

 

 

[W. Niederhut]

50 minutes ago, Matt Allison said:

I'm confident everyone has noticed you don't address Trump's actual ties to Russia, Ben.

If you want to dwell on the strange tale of the bogus Steele dossier, feel free; even Mueller thought it was garbage.

But that doesn't erase everything else the Russians did to the U.S. in the 2016 election, does it?

Matt,

    Ben is either indolent or intellectually dishonest.  I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and attribute his false statements to indolence. 

    For example, I just posted a reference to an Intercept article documenting NSA evidence of GRU hacking of U.S. voting systems in 2016, (in addition to references to the U.S. Senate Intel Report on the subject) and Ben's response was to say that I had "presented no evidence" of GRU hacking!  🙄

    John Cotter is being similarly disingenuous.

    I just posted a key reference for John and others (on the Political Discussion board) which provides the true backstory for understanding Putin's strategic plans in Russiagate/Trumpism, and the invasion of Ukraine.

     The reference is Putin's geopolitical playbook-- Aleksander Dugin's 1997 The Foundations of Geopolitics.

     It's worth a look, bearing in mind that the book was published years ago, around the time that former KGB Lt. Col. Vladimir Putin ascended to the Presidency of Russia's floundering democracy.

  “The Foundations of Geopolitics: The Geopolitical Future of Russia” by Aleksander Dugin was written in 1997. Since then, it has risen to the rank of textbook for the Russian military’s “Academy of the General Staff”. It lays out a Nationalist, Eurasianist political ideology and strategy for Russia to rebuild its influence and rise to world dominance. The strategic objectives laid out in the book are clear and systematic.

The textbook believes in a sophisticated program of subversion, destabilization, and disinformation spearheaded by the Russian special services. The operations should be assisted by a tough, hard-headed utilization of Russia's gas, oil, and natural resources to bully and pressure other countries.

First off, the textbook says that the United States need to be weakened internally.

Russia should use its special services within the borders of the United States to fuel instability and separatism, for instance, provoke "Afro-American racists". Russia should "introduce geopolitical disorder into internal American activity, encouraging all kinds of separatism and ethnic, social and racial conflicts, actively supporting all dissident movements – extremist, racist, and sectarian groups, thus destabilizing internal political processes in the U.S. It would also make sense simultaneously to support isolationist tendencies in American politics".

The book also recommends:

• Isolating the United Kingdom from the rest of Europe

• Annexing Ukraine

• Dismembering Georgia

• Creating a vital alliance with Iran

• Destabilizing Turkey

  

Edited February 19, 2023 by W. Niederhut

[Benjamin Cole]

49 minutes ago, Matt Allison said:

I'm confident everyone has noticed you don't address Trump's actual ties to Russia, Ben.

If you want to dwell on the strange tale of the bogus Steele dossier, feel free; even Mueller thought it was garbage.

But that doesn't erase everything else the Russians did to the U.S. in the 2016 election, does it?

What was "everything else"? 

Look, even the dogmatically left-wing The Guardian dismisses Russiagate as "debunked."

Even modishly hip-left Vox says the Russians "bots and trolls, and social influencers" story is empty (Twittergate).

Do you believe, as have other commentators here have presented, that the Russians went the direct route, and simply "hacked" actual voting tabulations in 2016? That is, hacked the actual voting machines? 

Man, that opens up a Pandora's Box. If results can be hacked...then why believe any voting results? Anyone can claim results were hacked.  

So, the blue kool-aid drinkers and the red kool-aid drinkers can take turns pissing on  election results. 

 

 

Edited February 19, 2023 by Benjamin Cole

[Benjamin Cole]

39 minutes ago, Matt Allison said:

Meanwhile, how are things going with Putin's war crimes against humanity?

 

 

The Russian invasion of Ukraine is a war crime. It is a volitional war. 

I do not understand Western powers accepting a Russian no-fly zone over Ukraine or dithering over whether to send tanks, etc. Talk about enabling and encouraging Putin.

Why is the US outspending Europe in Ukraine? 

Let us hope for an immediate armistice, and then a peaceful roll-back to original borders.

As it stands, a million men could go into the meat grinder on this one. Some say 200,000 already dead, and other human suffering beyond measure. 

Sadly, this looks like a long war. 

These wars of occupation are like tar babies. Once a leader has killed a lot of people and spent gobs of money...just pulling out becomes impossible. 

 

 

 

[Matt Allison]

14 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Look, even the dogmatically left-wing The Guardian dismisses Russiagate as "debunked."

Even modishly hip-left Vox says the Russians "bots and trolls, and social influencers" story is empty (Twittergate).

As I've said before, I couldn't care less what other opinion writers proclaim in the press about this issue.

Their opinions mean nothing to me if they are being ignorant, dishonest, or literally paid to spread Russian propaganda.

The facts are the facts, and no amount of Putin propaganda will change that.

[Benjamin Cole]

3 minutes ago, Matt Allison said:

As I've said before, I couldn't care less what other opinion writers proclaim in the press about this issue.

Their opinions mean nothing to me if they are being ignorant, dishonest, or literally paid to spread Russian propaganda.

The facts are the facts, and no amount of Putin propaganda will change that.

Well, at least we agree on Russia's invasion of Ukraine, and you have not insulted my intellectual honesty.

I enjoy discussing issues of the day with you, even if we disagree. 

Intelligent and honest people can come to various conclusions about public events. 

[Kirk Gallaway]

Fox News reporter Jacqui Heinrich dares to fact check Trump and says:

 

‘There is no evidence that any voting system deleted or lost votes, changed votes, or was in any way compromised.'”

 

 

Carlson tells Hannity about the traitorous Fox news reporter.

 

 

Carlson told Hannity: “Please get her fired. Seriously… What the xxxx? I’m actually shocked. It needs to stop immediately, like tonight. It’s measurably hurting the company The stock price is down. Not a joke.”

 

 

We also now see Tucker Carlson called a Trump "a demonic force."

 

I'm sure this will be unpleasant for those at the forum who would give their life as a mammal to just be a fly on the wall when the Don and Tucker were having their Summit talks. .It must be crushing!

Despite this overwhelming evidence of betrayal,Would some still continue to look up to both of them?

Sadly yes.

 

Tucker has melded  into their identity, as many cherished images in video clips, as well as being the most addictive source of effective tools to facilitate the microsecond satisfaction of "owning the libs." 

 

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/get-her-fired-text-shows-tucker-carlson-wanted-fox-news-colleague-jacqui-heinrich-canned-over-fact-check-of-trump-election-lie/

 

 

 

 

Edited February 19, 2023 by Kirk Gallaway

[Joe Bauer]

And by the way...

We are still waiting for Mr. Carlson to give us even a little tid-bit regarding a source for his CIA Did JFK proposition.

As I predicted, months have passed and ...well ...nothing?