The inevitable end result of our last 56 years

[W. Niederhut]

29 minutes ago, Chris Barnard said:

You gotta love the Dunning Kruger effect. 

It's, certainly, endemic in the Trump/Fox Cult.

Sadly, the Dunning Kruger-ites never seem to ask, or answer, the salient questions.

 

[Benjamin Cole]

7 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

Ben,

    Let's, briefly, analyze this with regard to three serious Trump crimes-- Russia-gate, Ukraine-gate, and the January 6th coup attempt.  There is no equivalence with anything involving "liberals" or Democrats.  Trump's criminal conduct has been unprecedented in American history.

    In all three cases, Trump's modus operandi has been the same (with major assistance from Fox News, Breitbart, and various right wing propaganda outlets.)

1)  Obstruct investigations-- e.g., by firing law enforcement and/or prosecutors (e.g., Sally Yates, James Comey, Andrew McCabe, Jeff Sessions, Robert Mueller, etc.)

2)  Deflect attention from Trump's crimes by accusing the investigators/opposition of illegal conduct (e.g., Obama-gate, Spy-gate, Nunes Memo, Durham Report, Patriot Purge, etc.)

3)  Stonewall investigations by refusing to comply with subpoenas or answer questions

4)  Tie up critical criminal evidence in the courts for years-- through endless appeals

Here's the latest chapter in the endless saga of Trump committing crimes and obstructing justice.

Former DOJ official Jeffrey Clark declines to answer panel questions : NPR

November 6, 2021

 

W.-

 

Thanks for presenting your views. 

I tend to favor the view of Glenn Greenwald and Matt Taibbi, and is that the Russiagate story does not hold water. They can lay out the case better than I in that regard, and you can look up their commentary online. 

This does not make Trump a nice or good President, and I do not think Taibbi or Greenwald hold Trump in high regard. Only that the charges against him were, well, trumped up.

There are many other concerns I have about this trend of attaching the traitor or "Moscow stooge" to political adversaries. Of course, this is an old gag, going back to the 1950s.

One is the oldest concern of all, that we do not go down the road of "guilty until proven innocent."  

As you may know Special Counsel John Durham is bringing charges against various participants who created the Russiagate story. But no one has confessed or been convicted before a jury of peers. Let us see if Durham can convince a jury someone has done something wrong. The corporate-liberal M$M media spin has to be ignored.

On a separate matter, Greenwald recently pointed out that of the 600 people arrested in the Capitol occupation, not one has been charged with conspiring with anybody in the Trump Administration. This despite the federal government's panopticon apparatus. The occupiers are being tried as spontaneous rioters, with some very few exceptions, of people charged with conspiring with other rioters. 

That's what the evidence shows. 

That's my story and I am sticking with it---but I welcome other views. 

 

 

 

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

It's, certainly, endemic in the Trump/Fox Cult.

Sadly, the Dunning Kruger-ites never seem to ask, or answer, the salient questions.

 

In your opinion as an esteemed psychoanalyst, could it apply to the Dems also? Is it possible? 🙂
 

There are no prizes for being the least crazy in a mental asylum. 

Edited November 7, 2021 by Chris Barnard

[Benjamin Cole]

1 hour ago, Chris Barnard said:

In your opinion as an esteemed psychoanalyst, could it apply to the Dems also? Is it possible? 🙂
 

There are no prizes for being the least crazy in a mental asylum. 

The Donks are a corporate party now, deeply aligned with--indeed subservient to--Wall Street, globalists, M$M media-entertainment, the national security state, Silicon Valley, the China lobby, the DC blob. 

The CCP can throw Jimmy Lai, the Hong Kong publisher, into prison, and where are the Donks? Quiet as a dead church-mouse.

The 'Phants are little better, and then only when advantageous. 

Interesting that a truck driver recently won a state seat in NJ, beating the longtime Donk Senate leader. 

In days of yore, a truck driver might have been a Donk hero. No more.  

Man, things have changed. 

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

55 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

The Donks are a corporate party now, deeply aligned with--indeed subservient to--Wall Street, globalists, M$M media-entertainment, the national security state, Silicon Valley, the China lobby, the DC blob. 

The CCP can throw Jimmy Lai, the Hong Kong publisher, into prison, and where are the Donks? Quiet as a dead church-mouse.

The 'Phants are little better, and then only when advantageous. 

Interesting that a truck driver recently won a state seat in NJ, beating the longtime Donk Senate leader. 

In days of yore, a truck driver might have been a Donk hero. No more.  

Man, things have changed. 

 

 

 

 

Of course ... 

It’s so much easier to corral the masses using policy supposedly attached to compassionate causes, or the ethos of collectivism and the greater good. It was so effective for Hitler, Mussolini and Stalin, they’d be mad to ignore such effective methods, especially with the powerful technological methods of delivery today. Its only taken 80 years of educating society differently and 30 years of not teaching kids about the dangers or collectivism to make society oblivious to where it leads. 
That’s perfectly democratic, right? Socially engineering populations. 
 

What’s interesting in this red vs blue pantomime, this theatre or fantasy for the masses to buy into is; as long as there are just two teams, people will vote for the one that seems less dastardly at any give time. Imagine not being able to see that neither are serving the people who put them power. Imaging being that retarded that you put governmental mistakes down to buffoonery and job difficulty, every time. Imagine sitting there believing in coincidence after coincidence that defy the laws or mathematics and probability. Imagine not even realising that consent sits with the masses. Imagine a population of 340 million all sat there watching TV’s with empty eyes and not wondering why you only have two choices, or why the profiteers in pharma, military etc fund the two parties equally?! Imagine being sat there and seeing Bill Clinton & GHW Bush as mates and not thinking thats odd?! 
 

Imagine there is a whole class of people attending meetings, smoking cigars,  with brandy at $900 a bottle  and laughing their bloody arses off at the American public buying into this 4 yearly fakery. Imagine seeing the way boxing promoters and networks hype a heavyweight title fight and not pausing for one second and thinking; is this just to get us to buy pay per view? If you figure that one out while chugging beer and eating popcorn, how come the people don’t see politics that way? Perhaps the American public are no different to WWF fans?!  
 

It’s similar in my own country, I am not singling out Americans. This reply is probably least at you, Ben. I am so taken aback that those who are adamant JFK was murdered as part of a conspiracy that involved high level government have just paused their thinking there. Its absurd that they see no corruption or wrongdoing beyond that point in history. Its blind optimism and moronic thinking to believe that after JFK is murdered, that those insidious forces would suddenly become virtuous or that their protege’s would be more honest. The idea that a political system rotten to the core would veer naturally toward honesty and integrity is bloody delusional thinking. 
Yet, here we are with a thread of left and right, red vs blue, people saying “my team is better than your team” and not realising that you’re all victims and you’re being milked by the same system. 
 

I have a question for anyone on the forum reading this thread. Can you name how many presidents after JFK that you think were:

1) Serving the people. 

2) Honest.

3) Taking the country forward. 

4) Making things better. 

 

🙈

 

 

Edited November 7, 2021 by Chris Barnard

[Paul Bacon]

Jimmy Carter, Barack Obama.  And look what happened to them.

[W. Niederhut]

14 hours ago, Chris Barnard said:

In your opinion as an esteemed psychoanalyst, could it apply to the Dems also? Is it possible? 🙂
 

There are no prizes for being the least crazy in a mental asylum. 

Chris,

     IMO, there is no meaningful equivalence between the sheer volume and extent of disinformation and mass ignorance on the right and "left" sides of the political spectrum in the U.S. today.

     Consider some facts.

1)     Donald Trump told more than 30,000 well-documented lies during his Presidency.  There's nothing remotely comparable to Trump's habitual mendacity in American Presidential history.

2)     What is worse, Trump's daily litany of lies was routinely amplified throughout the right wing media-- Fox, Breitbart, Gateway Pundit, etc.-- and on social media.  His Big Lies about the election and the January 6th coup attempt are only the most recent examples.

3)    Fox News has been rated by fact checking organizations like Politico as the most mendacious of cable news sources.

4)    Fox viewers are the most poorly informed about the real news in various surveys.

 

[Kirk Gallaway]

Chris is always judging everything in the  U,S.  from up on the moon where "everything's everything" and making broad proclamations so he can hide the fact that he can't answer any of the most basic nuts and bolts questions about U.S. politics with any real specificity .He holds the distinction of being the only person on the forum to swallow the big lie the day following the election. Ben isn't quite as clueless because he can pool all of his 3 authors who basically think the same.

[Dennis Berube]

Good to see this thread hasn't moved at all in about 10 months.

 

https://mark-skidmore.com/2021/11/06/dr-peter-doshis-remarkable-speech-everybody-knows/

 

Demoncrats are apparently the champions of bio-fascism and a total surveillance state. Whatever civil rights killing policy that flows from BlackRock/WEF to their corporations to their agents like Biden/Trudeau will be applauded by certain people at this point regardless of the US Constitution. The propaganda is simply too thick for these people to realize they are being lied to. 

Apparently, the 14th Amendment is now cancelled in Colorado by Democrats and this is ok with them. Although I do not believe voting is the answer, I will never vote for any candidate that does not make it clear they are against mandates and passports/digital identity, regardless of whether they are D or R or Trump or whatever else they call themselves. If you do not realize this is the goal of these globalists then you are simply creating your own comfortable narrative out of intentional distractions/misdirections that are not relevant to the critical fight of our time. It is clear that Trump was/is one of the misdirections, just as Biden/Faucci is for those who still somehow think he cares about any Americans.

 

https://beckernews.com/dem-governor-signs-executive-order-to-turn-away-unvaccinated-from-hospitals-and-prioritize-treatment-to-vaccinated-patients-42917/

[Jeff Carter]

Economist Michael Hudson really let it rip this past week with a detailed breakdown of the compromises associated with the Biden infrastructure bill, where the progressive impulse cultivated by the Democratic Party collapsed into a series of tax giveaways directed to the Dem’s donor constituency. Hudson writes caustically that the institutional “Democratic role is to protect the Republican party from challenges from the left.”

“The current Democratic impasse shows that no progress can be made without changing the institutional structure of American politics. It seems that the only way to do this is to make sure that the Democratic Party loses so irrevocably in 2022 and 2024 that it is dissolved enough to enable the Progressives to revive the near corpse.”

Michael Hudson - Is This the End of the Unreformable Democratic Party?

https://www.counterpunch.org/2021/11/05/is-this-the-end-of-the-unreformable-democratic-party/

[W. Niederhut]

David Rothkopf: American politics in a nutshell:


--Progressivism--The source of all ideas being considered to help Americans 

--Centrism--Watering down progressive ideas 

--Conservatism--Blocking progressive ideas and condemning them as socialist

--Trumpism--Racism, misogyny, hate 

Edited November 7, 2021 by W. Niederhut

[W. Niederhut]

21 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said:

duplicate

 

Edited November 7, 2021 by W. Niederhut

[Guest]

5 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

Chris,

     IMO, there is no meaningful equivalence between the sheer volume and extent of disinformation and mass ignorance on the right and "left" sides of the political spectrum in the U.S. today.

     Consider some facts.

1)     Donald Trump told more than 30,000 well-documented lies during his Presidency.  There's nothing remotely comparable to Trump's habitual mendacity in American Presidential history.

2)     What is worse, Trump's daily litany of lies was routinely amplified throughout the right wing media-- Fox, Breitbart, Gateway Pundit, etc.-- and on social media.  His Big Lies about the election and the January 6th coup attempt are only the most recent examples.

3)    Fox News has been rated by fact checking organizations like Politico as the most mendacious of cable news sources.

4)    Fox viewers are the most poorly informed about the real news in various surveys.

 

Hi William, 

Thanks for answering. This the problem that's being highlighted in another post. You're using the word 'facts" and the whole institution of government and those reporting on it in this day and age is a tissue of lies IMHO. 

1) The question regarding those 30K lies. we first need to identify what is a half truth and what has zero truth. At that stage we can then analyse every other president and put it in context, so we are on an even footing. We then still have the question; why are we buying into a political system littered with lies, deception and corruption? If we take a side, does that mean by proxy that we are willing to settle for the person who is the least dishonest? The reason many of us buy into JFK and care about it, is that from our understanding, he was a guy with good intentions (mostly) and he was a victim of fascism (perhaps). Is it a farce that we sit arguing who is the least deceitful out of Trump/Hilary or Trump/Biden? Would our time and thinking be better allocated to changing a system or forcing change via withdrawal of our consent and making our dissatisfaction known? Instead, we're here saying 'my team is better than your team". 

2) His litany of lies again needs to be put in context as per the above answer. I consider him to be the most shameless, the others still tell lies, they are just more artful at it and subtle, like they are in the UK. We're still essentially talking about two XXXXX each election. Unless of course you have some honourable candidates or former presidents that you like to reference as pure? 


3) A couple of things, Fox is required a counterpoint, for this whole system to endure. Its back to these two choices and which you like the sound of best. We could remove Fox and another counterpoint would be required for this ruse to endure. That may sound like conspiracy talk but, you are aware of the 9 conglomerates that own all of the worlds MSM (approximately). If you still believe in CNN or FOX as either being honest, do you then assume that they are not top down structures? That people on a lower level of decision making overrule people at a higher strata? As for fact checking sites, I work in PR, I know the value of any endorsements, and how to shape public opinion. Anyone could learn that by reading 3 or 4 books. I would contest that fact checking sites serve an honest purpose. The human mind will assume because thousands of truths and facts are on such a site that all of the content must be fact but, the reality is they could get away with 20% being lies and most people would assume the 20% was also truths. As they don't look at the funding of such sites or have a clue how corruption can take place. 

In your opinion, is divide and rule strategy being used on the American public? What does your logic tell you is happening?

4) Same again, which surveys? How were they structured, what were the variables. What did the pre-election surveys tell you vs reality? Those parameters dictate the results. Unless we understand those things, how can we know if they are honest? I haven't seen CNN or FOX breaking them down for people on an objective way. re they relying on the public to be too stupid and lazy to understand? This system permits networks and governments to use supporting data that may or may not be true. I'd be interested if with a keen eye for scrutiny you questioned the practices of CNN or your favourite sources of news. If we are to achieve a balanced viewpoint, don't we need to be doing both? If we only scrutinise the perceived villain, and never the perceived hero, we never know if our hero is indeed the virtuous. If we consider all of the US wars in five or 6 decades, in real time we assumed America was the hero or the virtuous, fighting for good, democracy and liberty. However, as time passed we've realised they often were the antagonist, not the hero. The reason that happened is that we have societies directed only to focus on the perceived villain. If we'd looked inwardly at the time these conflicts were starting to escalate, they could have been avoided, as society may have seen they are not the hero. 

What do you reckon?

Cheers

Chris

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Dennis Berube said:

Good to see this thread hasn't moved at all in about 10 months.

 

It's stuck in "divide & rule" o'clock. 

[W. Niederhut]

Chris,

   Trump's daily litany of lies have been exhaustively documented on a weekly-to-monthly basis during the past five years-- most notably by Glenn Kessler.   The details are damning.

Trump Lied More Than 30,000 Times During His Presidency. No Wonder We’re Exhausted.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2021/01/donald-trump-thirty-thousand-lies/

   Something is terribly wrong with our society if we can no longer even agree that an obvious lie is a lie-- or claim that "both sides" engage in the same behavior, to the same extent.  They don't.

   Of course, in the absence of intellectual honesty, people can endlessly claim that honest "fact checkers," themselves, aren't telling the truth-- regardless of the clear documentation of mendacity.  What bunk!

    Tucker Carlson's new, "Patriot Purge" documentary is a case in point.  It's falsified history--disinformation-- served up to a delusional cult to deny the fact that Trump and his associates conspired to obstruct the certification of an election.

    And, sadly, a substantial percentage of the U.S. population actually believe this stuff.  Many of them in a recent poll even believe that violence is necessary to overthrow our Constitutional democracy in the U.S.

Carlson's Gaslighting Is About More Than The Insurrection

When the November 2021 election results end up with eight people who participated in the insurrection elevated to public office as Republicans, the cold reality hits: Disinformation works.

https://crooksandliars.com/2021/11/tucker-carlson-patriot-purge