James DiEugenio Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 (edited) I just spent the last three hours watching the PBS taping of the Jan. 6th committee's last hearing. It is on You Tube. Being as objective as I can, I think they are doing a good job. The most impressive thing about the hearings are the many Trump employees high up in the White House who are testifying against the boss. Whatever their political orientation, and they had to be GOP, what happened on January 6th and the lead up to it was simply too much for them. What I think is most revealing is the attempt by Trump and the congressmen--like Louie G--to try to get the DOJ, and the FBI to go along with the allegations of election fraud. Well, people like Donoghue and Rosen did their inquiries with the FBI and they told Trump that it would not pass muster. Trump replies with something like, just say it was corrupt and me and the congressmen will take it from there. This is in notes projected on screen. Can you imagine saying something like that to a DOJ lawyer? It sounds positively Nixonian. And then when these guys would not go along with it, someone, I think Scott Perry, suggested Jeff Clark to Trump. He was someone who would go along. Rosen was stunned by this since Clark had no experience with election fraud. The suggestion is that Rudy G first floated his name. Besides all of this inside the WH testimony, the other thing that is so interesting is this: this whole sorry episode blows to smithereens the whole smear against a large conspiracy being too unwieldy and impractical. There were at least two dozen people involved with this thing--inside and outside the White House. And I find it interesting that both Onorato and Engel have lawyered up. There is a large difference between what the impeachment hearing presented and what these people have. I think that is natural since this committee had so much more time to assemble tapes and interview witnesses. But I will say this, although I find it despicable and cowardly for people like Meadows not to testify, I understand why he is reluctant to do so. Edited July 24, 2022 by James DiEugenio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 1 hour ago, Kathy Beckett said: We allowed this thread to stay in the JFK area a few years ago. It seems to be very popular here, but repeated breaking of rules could result in its removal. Kathy, I'm glad the moderators decided to keep this thread here. If you go to the Education Forum's home page, the JFK Assassination Debate sub-forum has far and away the greatest number of posts - over 330,000 posts. Of these, the Inevitable Result thread has far and away the greatest number of posts - more than 11,000. I know it's not JFK assassination related per se, but I think Joseph McBride struck a nerve when he made his first post. It's symptomatic of the times, I think. Where have we come from in the last 56 years? Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W. Niederhut Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 Well, this is discouraging. A new Marist poll indicates that Trump supporters have largely tuned out the Congressional J6 hearings, and that the hearings have not moved the Trumplicon Denial needle into the Reality Zone. Jan. 6 committee has done little to sway Republicans: poll (axios.com) Excerpt Two out of five Republicans say what happened on Jan. 6, 2021 was a protest protected by the First Amendment, per the poll. Since December, the percentage of Republicans who call Jan. 6 an insurrection and a threat to democracy increased from 10% to 12% - a shift smaller than the margin of error of the survey. Fewer than one in five Republicans say Trump deserves a great or good deal of blame for what happened that day, compared with nine out of 10 Democrats and 57% of independents, according to the poll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 15 hours ago, W. Niederhut said: I see no evidence that Trump and his followers will cease repeating the lies, W., I'm sorry, but I must correct your spelling mistake. It's Trump and his wallowers. Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bauer Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, Kathy Beckett said: Hi everyone. This thread will be pinned here permanently in the Jfk debate, so you wont have to hunt for it. (Up there with Terms of Use, New registration announcement, etc) We allowed this thread to stay in the JFK area a few years ago. It seems to be very popular here, but repeated breaking of rules could result in its removal. It is critical that you folks self police your posts here. We can't be here 24/7, so please post with respect to the rules of the Forum. . Amazing and appreciated. I just can't help reading and posting on this thread. I spend maybe 5 to 10% of my time here especially since it is constantly at the top of the subject thread listings. The Trump chaos drama experience is so pervasively and emotionally effecting in our daily lives now ( you sometimes feel we are on the verge of a civil war!) it's hard to ignore or stay completely away from. I know the thread is mostly totally removed from the JFK education, research and debate forum focus. I've felt a little guilty keeping it going myself at times. Tough call for the forum moderators and guardians. BTW, as you all know, we actually have a separate "Trump" thread category. I've posted there. But removal from the main board is the "kiss of death" in readership and contribution activity. The thread gets maybe a post a month...or two? Edited July 24, 2022 by Joe Bauer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 (edited) William: The indications are that overall, this is hurting Trump. These hearings are doing something that rarely happens. They are increasing the audience as they proceed. They are now getting tens of millions of viewers. Mainly because they are unearthing stuff that had not been revealed before. Often, during the proceedings, the narrator will say something like, "This has not been shown before." I really think that the DOJ is going to have to do something like what Willis is doing in Georgia. The outlines of a conspiracy to incite are pretty clear. I mean what would have happened if Trump had arrived at the scene? Edited July 24, 2022 by James DiEugenio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 BTW, the problem with the above is that while hurting Trump it is helping DeSantis. Sort of like dumping LBJ to get Nixon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bauer Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 I misread Kathy Beckett's post. I thought the "end result" thread was being kept on the main forum. Well...at least we can still express our thoughts there, even though moving a thread to a separate section has always given it the kiss of death regards participation. Oh well, we sure had a good long run with it didn't we posters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 1 hour ago, James DiEugenio said: William: I mean what would have happened if Trump had arrived at the scene? Jim, My wife and I were talking about this very thing last night. The President is not allowed to enter Congress unless he is invited. At that point, he would have been a squatter. Who could have evicted him? The military? The Armed Forces take their orders from him as the Commander-In-Chief. The Sergeant-In-Arms? Not against a mob. The Capitol Police? The Oath Keepers had stashed a cache of weapons outside of DC. There would have been a pitched battle. Would the Mayor of DC or any of the surrounding States activated the National Guards? Trump would probably have nationalized them. Trump would have stayed until Congress re-convened and made him the President. What would have happened if the Democrats had refused to re-convene? Would they have lacked a quorum in a joint session of Congress? Trump would have been in control of two branches of our Government. The third branch, the Supreme Court doesn't have any troops of their own. It would have been a freakin mess. Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Knight Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 What is escaping MOST of those who are following the January 6th hearings is a little-noticed detail. The MOST RANSACKED office in the Capitol was the Senate parliamentarian's office. WHY? Because that's where the insurrectionists supposed they would find the box containing the state-certified Electoral College vote tallies. While the attack itself derailed and delayed the Congressional certification of the state-certified electoral vote totals, had the box been found and absconded with, the Congressional certification of electoral votes could NOT have continued. THAT would have created a constitutional crisis. There is no provision in the constitution for dealing with missing state-certified electoral votes. NONE. So that would leave TWO possible routes to determine the winner of the Presidential election. ONE would be a ruling by the Trump-heavy Supreme Court. The other would have been to use the constitution's mechanism for deciding an election that's too close to call. By a vote of the then-Republican-majority House of Representatives. THAT is how close America came to having our democracy stolen from us. It all came down to the security of that box of state-certified Electoral College vote tallies. Had the insurrectionists captured and absconded with that, it would have been "game over" for our democracy. THAT is why Trump failed to call off the insurrectionists until it was certain that the box with the state-certified Electoral College vote tallies was out of the insurrectionists' reach. THEN Trump acted. And most people MISSED THAT POINT. The MOST IMPORTANT POINT about the insurrection. Had Trump really believed that Antifa was behind the insurrection, he would have acted with VIGOR, not RIGOR. Capitol insurrection: Jonathan Karl reveals Senate Parliamentarian office was ransacked the most during riots - EconoTimes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene Says GOP 'Should Be Christian Nationalists' Party By Nina Golgowski Jul 24, 2022 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/marjorie-taylor-greene-christian-nationalism-republican-party_n_62dd70bde4b081f3a9007344 “The Georgia congresswoman said the Republican Party should conform to Christianity to make it easier to identify with and sway Christian voters. Greene, who is known for her vocal religious beliefs and for imposing them on others, said the Republican Party should conform to Christianity to make it easier to identify with and sway Christian voters. “When Republicans learn to represent most of the people that vote for them, then we will be the party that continues to grow without having to chase down certain identities or chase down certain segments of people,” she said. “We just need to represent Americans and most Americans, no matter how they vote, really care about the same things and I want to see Republicans actually do their job.”” “The first clause in the Bill of Rights, the establishment clause, is widely seen as keeping religion and government separate as a means to prevent government officials from promoting any particular faith. “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,” it states. Rep. Lauren Boebert (R-Colo.), another conservative firebrand, advocated for abolishing that clause last month, saying “the church is supposed to direct the government” and that she’s “tired of this separation of church and state junk.”” Oh goody! Let’s all go back to being Puritans again! “Conform”. That’s the operative word. For a group of people who scream about “freedom” so much, they sure do seem to love that conforming business. Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 (edited) Elizabeth McDonough, the senate Parliamentarian got the two boxes out. BTW, according to an Oath Keepers witness, they were going to kill Pence and Pelosi. This is why the conspiracy to incite statute is so much in play. Man what a trial. Waiting for Garland, hope is not Waiting for Godot. Edited July 24, 2022 by James DiEugenio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Allison Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 1 hour ago, Mark Knight said: While the attack itself derailed and delayed the Congressional certification of the state-certified electoral vote totals, had the box been found and absconded with, the Congressional certification of electoral votes could NOT have continued. Indeed. 100% May God bless these patriotic young ladies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W. Niederhut Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 (edited) This story reminds me of Suetonius's account of the Roman Emperor Caligula wanting to make his horse a Consul of Rome. Trump would have been the first Medal of Honor recipient in American history who dodged the draft and never served in a war.Trump says he wanted to give himself Medal of Honor but was told it was ‘inappropriate’‘They wouldn’t let me do it’www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-honor-medal-turning-point-summit-b2130101.htmlJuly 24, 2022 Edited July 24, 2022 by W. Niederhut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 25 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said: This story reminds me of Suetonius's account of the Roman Emperor Caligula wanting to make his horse a Consul of Rome. Trump would have been the first Medal of Honor recipient in American history who dodged the draft and never served in a war.Trump says he wanted to give himself Medal of Honor but was told it was ‘inappropriate’‘They wouldn’t let me do it’www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-honor-medal-turning-point-summit-b2130101.htmlJuly 24, 2022 You’d definitely give yourself a medal of honour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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