Guy Banister and the CIA

[Tom Gram]

On 8/23/2022 at 12:39 AM, James DiEugenio said:

You are correct Gene.

Garrison was interested in Ochsner and Butler.

A rumor began, never verified, that JG was going to indict the doctor.  And this is why Butler fled with files to LA.

In looking through what is left of JG's files I never saw anything to that effect.

But Garrison was interested in Butler and Bringuier

With all due respect to Jerry, he and his publication were never really good on New Orleans.

Garrison was interested in Butler, but his files don't reflect the scrutiny I think Butler deserved as a suspect. Garrison also does not seem to have really investigated INCA as an organization at all, and focused strictly on Butler whenever INCA was mentioned. I've noticed an anti-Garrison bias in some of Rose's articles, but I think he may have been spot on about T&C. I agree that it's ridiculous to think that Garrison would wittingly conspire to shield INCA from investigation, but he might have had no choice, unable to bite the hand that was feeding him.

More likely though I think is that T&C was in a sense an infiltration mechanism. T&C sprung up right after Ferrie died in late Feb '67 and started financing Garrison - and certainly appears to have been used to obtain information, gain access, and exert control over the investigation. 

Butler informed on Garrison to the CIA on 4/4/67 stating that according to a "friend he could trust but not identify", Garrison intended to bring the CIA into his investigation. The very next sentence in the CIA memo points out that William E. Robertson, one of the T&C members financing Garrison, also helped finance INCA "of which Butler is Executive Vice-President":

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=13948

According to Mort Sahl in October '67, "Garrison's staff is the Truth and Consequences Committee":

I also found an interesting handwritten note by Garrison on a memo from May '68, where Garrison basically exonerates INCA as an organization and diverts attention to Butler alone:

("Not significant any more. All "members" were used. The operation is a tool set up + used by Ed Butler)

That seems like quite an assumption to make based on the scant investigative files on Butler and INCA I've seen in the Garrison papers. 

Edited August 24, 2022 by Tom Gram

[Gene Kelly]

15 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

You are correct Gene.

Garrison was interested in Ochsner and Butler.

A rumor began, never verified, that JG was going to indict the doctor.  And this is why Butler fled with files to LA.

In looking through what is left of JG's files I never saw anything to that effect.

But Garrison was interested in Butler and Bringuier

With all due respect to Jerry, he and his publication were never really good on New Orleans.

Thanks Jim ... I suspected as much but given your deep understanding of what Garrison was doing, your input is valuable.  

I agree with Tom that T&C appears to have been an infiltration mechanism (why would they be any different than all the rest of the interlopers surrounding Garrison?). Its notable that T&C arose after Ferrie died in late Feb '63 and began to finance Garrison - a good way to to obtain information, gain access, and exert control over the investigation. 

It's a wonder that Jim Garrison retained his sanity, and still ended up where he did ... on the right side of the truth, never compromising, and later advising Oliver Stone.  Asd other have previously stated, we have a lot to thank him for, as far as what we know today.  He truly was on the trail ... 

Gene

[Mark Knight]

10 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

And another one:

"In February 1993 Marie Robards, a tall, striking Fort Worth 16-year-old, pulled off what a prosecutor called the perfect crime, murdering her 38-year-old father, who was divorced from her mother, by slipping a spoonful of the poisonous chemical barium acetate into the refried beans of the take-out Mexican food he was eating one evening. The autopsy found nothing unusual. To detect certain poisons and less common chemicals such as barium acetate, a specialized $150,000 machine was required, which the Tarrant County medical examiner’s office did not own. The coroner attributed Robards’ death to a heart attack."

---30---

https://www.texasmonthly.com/news-politics/poisoning-daddy/

The murderess was only caught when she suddenly confessed, not under duress. 

I guess from this story we can conclude barium acetate is tasteless or relatively so, and can kill a 38-year-old man pronto. 

So offing Banister was as simple as putting some barium acetate in his food....

barium acetate is common enough to be found in high-school chemistry kits, and has been around since the 1800s.

 

 

 

My ex-wife's niece, a nurse, was a serial killer in Texas. Most of her murders initially went undetected.

Angel of Death – Texas Monthly

[Benjamin Cole]

1 hour ago, Mark Knight said:

My ex-wife's niece, a nurse, was a serial killer in Texas. Most of her murders initially went undetected.

Angel of Death – Texas Monthly

My ex-wife would likely be a serial killer given the opportunities. 

[Bob Ness]

15 hours ago, Matt Allison said:

William Gaudet, and numerous Banister employees.

I also want to add that a good source of info on INCA exists in Edward Haslam's book "Mary, Ferrie, and the Monkey Virus". While the book contains speculation on the topic of Ferrie, the section on INCA was well researched and valuable.

 

11 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Destiny Betrayed, second edition, pp. 109-113.

It was so well known that the custodian at 544 Camp Street, James Arthus, teased Banister about it.

Even Jesse Core, Shaw's right hand man, warned the FBI that Oswald was placing Banister's address on his flyers.

Isn't it revealing how the FBI went along with Banister's cover up, and then, from my understanding, Banister got out of that building, after the assassination. If anything shows how rigorous the FBI cover up was afterwards, its probably that.

Thanks to you both. Doug Caddy suggested something earlier but took his explanation off line. Beginning to think I'm no longer part of the cool kids hahaha!

[Bob Ness]

On 8/15/2022 at 11:34 AM, Douglas Caddy said:

Gerry -- I have sent you a private message on the forum regarding this, -- Doug

Doug would you mind answering that for me too? That's the first thing that came up for me too.

[Pete Mellor]

13 hours ago, Tom Gram said:

More likely though I think is that T&C was in a sense an infiltration mechanism. T&C sprung up right after Ferrie died in late Feb '63 and started financing Garrison

Typo=Feb. 22nd 1967.

[Allen Lowe]

On 8/19/2022 at 12:38 PM, Steve Roe said:

Delphine Roberts and another individual were the ones that discovered Banister (not Bannister) in his bed dead. Delphine was a total crackpot. She was ardent Segregationist, Anti-Commie and a member of the John Birch Society. Delphine was often protesting various causes in New Orleans at the City Council, in the streets picketing. 

Delphine was a very paranoid lady and doesn't surprise me she would say Banister may have been murdered. When someone believes the communists were poisoning the drinking water with Fluoridation (Bircher belief), I would call that paranoid. 

Banister had been under the care of a doctor for some time. He went downhill financially, owing $1,100 Sam Newman for back rent (almost a year). He got arrested for a fight on a bus with a couple of men fighting over a pistol a couple of months before his death. 

Well we obviously don’t rule out crackpots occasionally telling the truth. Hence we allow a few LNers here.

[James DiEugenio]

If you follow the Roberts testimony from the beginning, it has all the earmarks of a reluctant witness holding back the facts because of what they would reveal.

1.  Garrison-she gives just about zero. Sworn to secrecy by Banister.

2. HSCA, visit one-some tidbits but not that much. No admission to seeing LHO there.

3. HSCA visit two-she finally cracks the door open. Spills some beans about seeing LHO at 544 Camp Street.

4.  Summers, post HSCA- The story finally comes out in full.

The circumstances surrounding the last are necessary to understand in order to see just how reluctant she was.

Summers met her at a  rightwing, John Bircher type attorney's office.  With him there, the lawyer advised her not to talk. When they left, Summers went to his rented car and drove around front.  It was raining as it often does in the afternoon in New Orleans. He saw her standing outside there  and asked her if she needed a ride.  She jumped in.  After a few minutes, she started to weep.  And that was the beginning of her dumping it all out.

How can anyone not see this pattern for what it was? A person who was in denial for over a decade.

Now, one of the worst parts of Posner's POS book was his interview with her.  I heard about this through our mutual pal Gus Russo.  How Roberts had now taken back her story.  I talked to Allen Campbell about it, who was close to her. He told me that Jerry Boy left out a rather important detail.  Roberts was in  a nursing home, because she was suffering from dementia.

🤧

Today, with the declassification of files, there is all kinds of corroboration for Roberts.  See ppgs. 109-113 of second edition of Destiny Betrayed where I describe and list 11 of them.  But to me the anger of Banister about the 544 Camp Street address and Jesse Core sending that flyer to the FBI  with that address arrowed, I mean geez, what else do you need?

Edited August 25, 2022 by James DiEugenio

[James DiEugenio]

Let me add something to update this.

With what we know today about the CIA and FBI campaigns against the FPCC, stemming from 1961 with McCord and Phillips and DeLoach,  this certifies what Oswald was doing there in New Orleans.

And with what Paul Bleau has done, it goes even further.  He revealed in his excellent "Exposing the FPCC" articles that Oswald wrote to the FPCC in 1962, and Stuckey was in contact with the FBI about the FPCC that year also.  And as John Newman notes, there were two stages to the FPCC operation.  The first part was when Oswald was doing his work covertly, trying to flush out sympathizers at places like Tulane; and then the overt side, when he starts going for the street theater. This is when Core picks up the 544 Camp Street flyer on Canal Street, arrows the address, and sends it to the FBI. 

He did that right out of the ITM, which will be the next place LHO will leaflet at.  And its Core who called the cameras.  

[Tom Gram]

3 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

If you follow the Roberts testimony from the beginning, it has all the earmarks of a reluctant witness holding back the facts because of what they would reveal.

1.  Garrison-she gives just about zero. Sworn to secrecy by Banister.

2. HSCA, visit one-some tidbits but not that much. No admission to seeing LHO there.

3. HSCA visit two-she finally cracks the door open. Spills some beans about seeing LHO at 544 Camp Street.

4.  Summers, post HSCA- The story finally comes out in full.

The circumstances surrounding the last are necessary to understand in order to see just how reluctant she was.

Summers met her at a  rightwing, John Bircher type attorney's office.  With him there, the lawyer advised her not to talk. When they left, Summers went to his rented car and drove around front.  It was raining as it often does in the afternoon in New Orleans. He saw her standing outside there  and asked her if she needed a ride.  She jumped in.  After a few minutes, she started to weep.  And that was the beginning of her dumping it all out.

How can anyone not see this pattern for what it was? A person who was in denial for over a decade.

Now, one of the worst parts of Posner's POS book was his interview with her.  I heard about this through our mutual pal Gus Russo.  How Roberts had now taken back her story.  I talked to Allen Campbell about it, who was close to her. He told me that Jerry Boy left out a rather important detail.  Roberts was in an a nursing home, because she was suffering from dementia.

🤧

Today, with the declassification of files, there is all kinds of corroboration for Roberts.  See ppgs. 109-113 of second edition of Destiny Betrayed where I describe and list 11 of them.  But to me the anger of Banister about the 544 Camp Street address and Jesse Core sending that flyer to the FBI  with that address arrowed, I mean geez, what else do you need?

I did not know that bit about Summers. If there was no corroboration for Roberts’ story about Oswald at 544 Camp St. it’d be one thing - but like you said, there is plenty. Wendell Roache and the vanishing Church Committee records are honestly enough IMO, but the other witnesses seal the deal. Oswald was there, and there’s no way around it. 

Mary Helen Brengel was very suspicious of Roberts, and told the HSCA and ARRB a very interesting story about Roberts’ gleeful reaction to the news of JFK’s death. Roberts’ reaction to Summers sounds like denial but also possibly repressed guilt. If she’d suspected that Banister had some involvement in the assassination, covered for her deceased lover for years, and due to her extreme right-wing views had actually celebrated JFK’s murder, the break-down in front of Summers makes perfect sense, IMO.

[Cory Santos]

Not to sidetrack this but……

if we are going to use the above logic about changing stories, Marilyn Monroe’s house cleaner Eunice Murray was interviewed by….

you guessed it, Anthony Summers, 

when the cameras went off but the sound continued she admitted RFK was in LA the night Marilyn was murdered and he was at her house.   
So I went out to my pool where my never leave house guest Cliff Varnell was lounging and mentioned this.  He said I would be remiss if I did not notice the incongruity here. 

Edited August 25, 2022 by Cory Santos

[Tom Gram]

49 minutes ago, Cory Santos said:

Not to sidetrack this but……

if we are going to use the above logic about changing stories, Marilyn Monroe’s house cleaner Eunice McMurray was interviewed by….

you guessed it, Anthony Summers, 

when the cameras went off but the sound continued she admitted RFK was in LA the night Marilyn was murdered and he was at her house.   
So I went out to my pool where my never leave house guest Cliff Varnell was lounging and mentioned this.  He said I would be remiss if I did not notice the incongruity here. 

You make a good point, but the meat of Roberts’ story has been independently corroborated by several sources, including a highly credible government intelligence agent whose actual testimony, along with that of at least two of his immediate colleagues, has disappeared under the most suspicious circumstances imaginable. 

With all the evidence available today, I see zero reason to honestly doubt that the 544 Camp St. address stamped on Oswald’s FPCC fliers reflects his presence in the Newman building in the Summer of ‘63. Roberts’ story is just one of many corroborative data points - and though she may have embellished a bit, I agree with Jim that her overall story seems more like that of a reluctant witness than a compulsive xxxx, IMO.  

Edited August 25, 2022 by Tom Gram

[Ron Bulman]

1 hour ago, Cory Santos said:

Not to sidetrack this but……

if we are going to use the above logic about changing stories, Marilyn Monroe’s house cleaner Eunice Murray was interviewed by….

you guessed it, Anthony Summers, 

when the cameras went off but the sound continued she admitted RFK was in LA the night Marilyn was murdered and he was at her house.   
So I went out to my pool where my never leave house guest Cliff Varnell was lounging and mentioned this.  He said I would be remiss if I did not notice the incongruity here. 

Cliff hasn't visited the forum in over a year.  I hope he's alright.  If not maybe that's his ghost by your pool.

[Cory Santos]

28 minutes ago, Tom Gram said:

You make a good point, but the meat of Roberts’ story has been independently corroborated by several sources, including a highly credible government intelligence agent whose actual testimony, along with that of at least two of his immediate colleagues, has disappeared under the most suspicious circumstances imaginable. 

With all the evidence available today, I see zero reason to honestly doubt that the 544 Camp St. address stamped on Oswald’s FPCC fliers reflects his presence in the Newman building in the Summer of ‘63. Roberts’ story is just one of many corroborative data points - and though she may have embellished a bit, I agree with Jim that her overall story seems more like that of a reluctant witness than a compulsive xxxx, IMO.  

Ok, applying your same logic and rules now, Ms. Murray’s account that RFK visited LA on the day Marilyn was murdered is corroborated by a mayor, police officer, Peter Lawford’s ex,Fred Otash, a former police chief, and John Dickie, just to name a few.   
The same logic and rules have to be consistently applied.