David Atlee Phillips: Oswald never went to Mexico!

[Bob Ness]

16 minutes ago, Greg Doudna said:

 

No I make no such suggestion. The expression "(Discussion off the record)" is part of the Warren Commission transcript of the court reporter, not from me. Notation of discussion off the record occurs frequently with Warren Commission transcripts of testimony of witnesses. Your guess is as good as mine what that was about. One possibility in keeping with Belin behavior elsewhere is Belin could have asked where Holmes was going with his testimony on a particular point, before entering it into the record, i.e. Belin asking the witness a question off the record, finding the answer suitable, then asking the same question again on the record. That could be one possibility but who knows.

I phrased it incorrectly. That's what I meant. Belin leading, coaching or grooming the answer. That's my suspicion at least.

[Gene Kelly]

10 hours ago, Bob Ness said:

Is that correct? Source?

Bob

See the August 2021 Kennedys and King article by Paul Bleau "Exposing the FPCC, Part 2":

“Follow the money” is one of the things that the FBI and Warren Commission did not do in trying to understand how such a destitute person like Oswald could run an FPCC chapter, raise a family, and save money for Marina (at least $1600 in today’s money).[1] He was so poor that the White Russians paid for his YMCA fees. The FPCC added the following to this drifter’s cost of living: FPCC membership fees, renting of a space, hiring leafleteers, paying a fine for disturbing the peace, the purchase of rubber-stamping equipment, personal displacements, printing of up to five different pieces of literature, correspondence with the FPCC, and use of a Post Office Box…with not one single member to help absorb the costs. The following exchange between Oswald’s lawyer and Wesley Liebeler of the Warren Commission suggests something more plausible than Oswald giving away time and money for a passé organization rather than focusing on his growing family—he was paid $25 a day (Note that Oswald’s job at the Texas Schoolbook Depository paid $1.50 per hour):

This commentary is derived from Dean Andrews' July 21, 1964, Warren Commission testimony to Wesley Liebeler:

Mr. ANDREWS.  Only time I really paid attention to this boy, he-was in the front of the Maison Blanche Building giving out these kooky Castro things.

Mr. LIEBELER. When was this, approximately?  Mr. ANDREWS. I don’t remember. I was coming from the KBC building, and I walked past him. You know how you see somebody, recognize him. So, I turned around, came back, and asked him what he was doing giving that junk out. He said it was a job. I reminded him of the $25 he owed the office. He said he would come over there, but he never did.

Mr. LIEBELER. Did he tell you that he was getting paid to hand out this literature?  Mr. ANDREWS. Yes.

Mr. LIEBELGR. Did he tell you how much?  Mr. ANDREWS. No.

Mr. LIEBELER. Do you remember telling the FBI that he told you that he was being paid $25 a day for handing out these leaflets?   Mr. ANDREWS. I could have told them that. I know I reminded him of the $25. I may have it confused, the $25. What I do recall, he said it was a job. I guess I asked him how much he was making. They were little square chits a little bit smaller than the picture you have of him over there [indicating].

Mr. LIEBELER. He was handing out these leaflets?  Mr. ANDREWS. They were black-and-white pamphlets extolling the virtues of Castro, which around here doesn’t do too good. They have a lot of guys, Mexicanos and Cubanos, that will tear your head off if they see you fooling with these things. 

Gene

 

[Tom Gram]

14 hours ago, Greg Doudna said:

Comments on Oswald and Mexico City

Nothing about Oswald going to Mexico City assists, but only complicates, the Warren Commission conclusion that Oswald acted alone in killing President Kennedy. It runs counter to interest for the FBI and Warren Commission et al to fabricate evidence or influence witnesses or marionette-string Marina to have her say Oswald did go to Mexico City, after ca. midnight Nov 22, 1963. 

If there was incentive to cover up or suborn some witnesses to perjure testimony a certain way etc., would that not work in the opposite direction, toward if possible denying Oswald went to Mexico City? Was there even a brief period of time in which a complete coverup of Oswald's having been in Mexico City was contemplated at the LBJ/Hoover level? (But not carried out because it could not be carried out?)

As Steve Roe notes Silvia Duran's and the Cuban consulate's information was in Oswald's address book. There is no secure evidence Oswald was anywhere else during the days of Mexico City. Oswald wrote a draft of a letter in his handwriting in which he refers to having been in Mexico City. Marina spilled it that he had been to Mexico City. I have come to see that the Silvia Odio visit, far from being an argument against the Mexico City trip as often perceived and as the Warren Commission considered a difficulty, is a strong argument in support of it for this reason: the date of the Silvia Odio three-person visit can be securely established by argument to have been early eve. Wed. Sept 25, 1963. (More likely earlier evening according to Annie Odio's testimony than later in the evening of Silvia's, from Houston logistics considerations.)

Apart from the independent argument establishing that date, there is a further argument supporting that Wednesday date that I have not seen cited: in the very tiny and runon handwritten letter of Silvia's father, from his imprisonment in Cuba and writing past the eyes of his Cuban censors, Odio Sr. writes advice to family members and includes, buried in the tiny, runon difficult-to read handwritten sentences, a line of advice to Silvia to not go out Wednesday evenings with her girlfriends, that he does not think that is a good idea, at the same time telling her whoever claimed to know him on that occasion she must verify before believing. It may be that the "Wednesday evening" reference (not any other day of the week) is an allusion to what Silvia wrote in her letter to him (which has not survived, but it is clear she wrote him of the three-man visit to her), and supports that it occurred on a Wednesday evening, i.e. Wed Sept 25. Silvia was going out the evening the three men including Oswald visited her; Odio Sr. answering her letter about that visit comments on her going out on Wednesday evenings, q.e.d. a Wednesday, supporting the Wed Sept 25 date.

The point about the Wed Sept 25 date of the Silvia Odio incident is that is precisely the correct time to account for Oswald having been driven, first from New Orleans to Dallas that day, and then from Dallas to Houston that evening, to catch the bus from Houston onward for the Mexico City trip. The Warren Commission could find no evidence of or realistic mechanism of Oswald getting from New Orleans to Houston by bus, but assumed it must have happened that way anyway, when the solution is there was no bus to Houston for Oswald, but instead a witnessed presence of Oswald in a car being driven at exactly the right time on that trip. It resolves that mystery. The juxtaposition of the timing is the argument here that it was part of the Mexico City trip, and therefore that Oswald did go to Mexico City.

In addition according to sworn testimony, Oswald himself talked of the Mexico City trip in his final interrogation, not to Fritz, but to federal officials questioning him, as told by postal inspector Holmes who was present. This can be combined with calling into question the common report that Oswald denied he went to Mexico City in his interrogations. Oswald's words directly are not known to have been recorded, and have been represented as having him deny to Fritz that he went to Mexico City when asked in his first interrogation.

Agreed-upon facts are that the question was asked of Oswald by Fritz at Hosty's urging, and whatever Oswald replied was cut off by a knock on the door and Oswald then taken out for a lineup. The issue is what exactly did Oswald say in response to the question before the interruption. Hosty in little-known sworn testimony to the Church Committee, and I believe elsewhere (not only to the Church Committee), was very clear (in that testimony, though Hosty says the opposite in his book Assignment: Oswald) that Oswald did not answer the question before the interruption. There is no known record of Fritz ever asking that question again. So although it is widely believed and claimed that Oswald denied he went to Mexico City, there is some conflicting evidence on that point, competing hearsay, and it is not fully clear that he denied it.

Whatever he actually answered on Friday, by Sunday morning Oswald was openly discussing his Mexico City trip. I was surprised to notice that according to an account of Leavelle of the Dallas Police, he (Leavelle) and Fritz drank coffee in a restaurant across the street for a good part of the time between 10 am and 11:20, before it was time for Oswald to be brought down from Fritz's office for the transfer to be killed. (According to the accounts I can see, Fritz though in charge of the transfer does not appear to have been hands-on in charge of its timing, with the insistence on the risky daytime transfer from Chief Curry, who was receiving orders from the mayor's office above his level on that, though the whole issue of who was responsible for what is murky. ) Therefore the objection that Fritz never mentions Oswald speaking of Mexico City Sunday morning in Fritz's written reports of the interrogations may have a possible explanation in that Fritz and Leavelle were across the street drinking coffee when Oswald talked about Mexico City on Sunday morning. Leavelle:

"Around 10: AM while the Federal agents were talking to Oswald, Captain Fritz asked me if I would like a cup of coffee. We walked across the street to the White Plaza Hotel Coffee Shop had coffee and discussed the transfer. On our way back to the office ... By the time we returned to the third floor office it was about eleven AM. The federal agents were bringing to a close their questioning of Oswald ... ("Detective Leavelle's Personal Notes", n.d., https://www.seandegrilla.com/detective-leavelle-s-personal-notes)

That is, according to this account of Leavelle, Fritz was not even present most of the time before it was time for Oswald to go below to be killed. Here is what Holmes said was going on:

Mr. BELIN. Anything else about Russia? Did he ever say anything about going to Mexico? Was that ever covered?
Mr. HOLMES. Yes. To the extent that mostly about--well--he didn't spend, "Where did you get the money?" He didn't have much money and he said it didn't cost much money. He did say that where he stayed it cost $26 some odd, small ridiculous amount to eat, and another ridiculous small amount to stay all night, and that he went to the Mexican Embassy to try to get this permission to go to Russia by Cuba, but most of the talks that he wanted to talk about was how he got by with a little amount.
They said, "Well, who furnished you the money to go to Mexico?"
"Well, it didn't take much money." And it was along that angle, was the conversation.
Mr. BELIN. Did he admit that he went to Mexico?
Mr. HOLMES. Oh, yes.

Mr. BELIN. Did he say what community in Mexico he went to?
Mr. HOLMES. Mexico City.
Mr. BELIN. Did he say what he did while he was there?
Mr. HOLMES. He went to the Mexican consulate, I guess.
(Discussion off the record.)
Mr. BELIN. Now, with regard to this Mexican trip, did he say who he saw in Mexico?
Mr. HOLMES. Only that he went to the Mexican consulate or Embassy or something and wanted to get permission, or whatever it took to get to Cuba. They refused him and he became angry and he said he burst out of there, and I don't know. I don't recall now why he went into the business about how mad it made him.
He goes over to the Russian Embassy. He was already at the American. This was the Mexican--he wanted to go to Cuba.
Then he went to the Russian Embassy and he said, because he said then he wanted to go to Russia by way of Cuba, still trying to get to Cuba and try that angle and they refused and said, "Come back in 30 days," or something like that. And, he went out of there angry and disgusted.
Mr. BELIN. Did he go to the Cuban Embassy, did he say or not?
Mr. HOLMES. He may have gone there first, but the best of my recollection, it might have been Cuban and then the Russian, wherever he went at first, he wanted to get to Cuba, and then he went to the Russian to go by Cuba.
Mr. BELIN. Did he say why he wanted to go to Cuba?
Mr. HOLMES. No.
Mr. BELIN. Did--this wasn't reported in your interview in the memorandum that you wrote?
Mr. HOLMES. No.
Mr. BELIN. Is this something that you think you might have picked up from just reading the papers, or is this something you remember hearing?
Mr. HOLMES. That is what he said in there. 

Again, I do not understand the logic that all these witnesses were fabricating testimony--under oath with all the seriousness that means for personal jeopardy let alone conscience--and that physical evidence was being fabricated and planted to show Oswald was in Mexico City, against interest, when the interest of LBJ and Hoover after ca. midnight Nov 22, and then the Warren Commission appear to run in the opposite direction. I do not understand the thinking that says the FBI and Warren Commission were furiously undertaking extraordinarily elaborate machinations to fabricate witness testimony and physical evidence of an Oswald trip to Mexico City that never happened, when it flies in the face of plausibility and counter to reasonable motive. (What was going on in Mexico City when Oswald was there is of course a whole other set of issues, not to the point here.) There is also the question of was the CIA itself fooled, or was it knowingly fooling other agencies in reporting that Oswald had visited the Soviet embassy in Mexico City, and did the CIA have a track record of being fooled or fooling other agencies in that manner (I doubt it). 

I don’t think Holmes’ testimony on Mexico City is very credible. Holmes didn’t mention Oswald saying anything about Mexico City in his 12/17/63 report on Oswald’s final interrogation, and the report covers the entire interrogation i.e. not just questions asked by Holmes: 

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10673#relPageId=184

Also, as far as I know, no one else who attended that interrogation ever corroborated Holmes or mentioned anything about Oswald admitting to being in Mexico City in their reports.

Will Fritz wasn’t even asked about what Holmes said in his testimony, and Fritz testified on 4/22/64, just three weeks after Holmes testified to Belin on April 2nd. Fritz did mention that Oswald denied being in Mexico City in his first interrogation - so it’s kind of hard to believe IMO that 1) Fritz wouldn’t mention that Oswald eventually admitted to it if that actually happened; and 2) the WC’s failure to ask Fritz to corroborate Holmes wasn’t intentional. 

Also, the evidence that Holmes was perfectly willing to lie under oath, repeatedly, is stronger than just about any other WC witness, so I’m not sure he’s the best example to support your argument here.

I have no problem with Oswald being in Mexico City, and I think the evidentiary anomalies can just as if not more plausibility be explained by a cover-up of Oswald’s true method of travel than if he didn’t go at all. The earliest CIA reports have Oswald entering Mexico by car - so if that’s true, it’s not hard to figure out why it’d be a big, big problem. I’ve said this before, but if the early CIA reports are accurate and Oswald drove, or was driven, to Mexico, I think that’s just as bad as if he wasn’t there at all. 

There are major problems with the bus trip evidence, and I think pretty much everyone agrees that the evidence is basically conclusive that Oswald was impersonated, at least on the phone, but I haven’t seen anything to really convince me that the entire Mexico City trip is bogus. 

[Gene Kelly]

14 hours ago, Greg Doudna said:

Comments on Oswald and Mexico City

Nothing about Oswald going to Mexico City assists, but only complicates, the Warren Commission conclusion that Oswald acted alone in killing President Kennedy. It runs counter to interest for the FBI and Warren Commission et al to fabricate evidence or influence witnesses or marionette-string Marina to have her say Oswald did go to Mexico City, after ca. midnight Nov 22, 1963. 

If there was incentive to cover up or suborn some witnesses to perjure testimony a certain way etc., would that not work in the opposite direction, toward if possible denying Oswald went to Mexico City? Was there even a brief period of time in which a complete coverup of Oswald's having been in Mexico City was contemplated at the LBJ/Hoover level? (But not carried out because it could not be carried out?)

As Steve Roe notes Silvia Duran's and the Cuban consulate's information was in Oswald's address book. There is no secure evidence Oswald was anywhere else during the days of Mexico City. Oswald wrote a draft of a letter in his handwriting in which he refers to having been in Mexico City. Marina spilled it that he had been to Mexico City. I have come to see that the Silvia Odio visit, far from being an argument against the Mexico City trip as often perceived and as the Warren Commission considered a difficulty, is a strong argument in support of it for this reason: the date of the Silvia Odio three-person visit can be securely established by argument to have been early eve. Wed. Sept 25, 1963. (More likely earlier evening according to Annie Odio's testimony than later in the evening of Silvia's, from Houston logistics considerations.)

Apart from the independent argument establishing that date, there is a further argument supporting that Wednesday date that I have not seen cited: in the very tiny and runon handwritten letter of Silvia's father, from his imprisonment in Cuba and writing past the eyes of his Cuban censors, Odio Sr. writes advice to family members and includes, buried in the tiny, runon difficult-to read handwritten sentences, a line of advice to Silvia to not go out Wednesday evenings with her girlfriends, that he does not think that is a good idea, at the same time telling her whoever claimed to know him on that occasion she must verify before believing. It may be that the "Wednesday evening" reference (not any other day of the week) is an allusion to what Silvia wrote in her letter to him (which has not survived, but it is clear she wrote him of the three-man visit to her), and supports that it occurred on a Wednesday evening, i.e. Wed Sept 25. Silvia was going out the evening the three men including Oswald visited her; Odio Sr. answering her letter about that visit comments on her going out on Wednesday evenings, q.e.d. a Wednesday, supporting the Wed Sept 25 date.

The point about the Wed Sept 25 date of the Silvia Odio incident is that is precisely the correct time to account for Oswald having been driven, first from New Orleans to Dallas that day, and then from Dallas to Houston that evening, to catch the bus from Houston onward for the Mexico City trip. The Warren Commission could find no evidence of or realistic mechanism of Oswald getting from New Orleans to Houston by bus, but assumed it must have happened that way anyway, when the solution is there was no bus to Houston for Oswald, but instead a witnessed presence of Oswald in a car being driven at exactly the right time on that trip. It resolves that mystery. The juxtaposition of the timing is the argument here that it was part of the Mexico City trip, and therefore that Oswald did go to Mexico City.

In addition according to sworn testimony, Oswald himself talked of the Mexico City trip in his final interrogation, not to Fritz, but to federal officials questioning him, as told by postal inspector Holmes who was present. This can be combined with calling into question the common report that Oswald denied he went to Mexico City in his interrogations. Oswald's words directly are not known to have been recorded, and have been represented as having him deny to Fritz that he went to Mexico City when asked in his first interrogation.

Agreed-upon facts are that the question was asked of Oswald by Fritz at Hosty's urging, and whatever Oswald replied was cut off by a knock on the door and Oswald then taken out for a lineup. The issue is what exactly did Oswald say in response to the question before the interruption. Hosty in little-known sworn testimony to the Church Committee, and I believe elsewhere (not only to the Church Committee), was very clear (in that testimony, though Hosty says the opposite in his book Assignment: Oswald) that Oswald did not answer the question before the interruption. There is no known record of Fritz ever asking that question again. So although it is widely believed and claimed that Oswald denied he went to Mexico City, there is some conflicting evidence on that point, competing hearsay, and it is not fully clear that he denied it.

Whatever he actually answered on Friday, by Sunday morning Oswald was openly discussing his Mexico City trip. I was surprised to notice that according to an account of Leavelle of the Dallas Police, he (Leavelle) and Fritz drank coffee in a restaurant across the street for a good part of the time between 10 am and 11:20, before it was time for Oswald to be brought down from Fritz's office for the transfer to be killed. (According to the accounts I can see, Fritz though in charge of the transfer does not appear to have been hands-on in charge of its timing, with the insistence on the risky daytime transfer from Chief Curry, who was receiving orders from the mayor's office above his level on that, though the whole issue of who was responsible for what is murky. ) Therefore the objection that Fritz never mentions Oswald speaking of Mexico City Sunday morning in Fritz's written reports of the interrogations may have a possible explanation in that Fritz and Leavelle were across the street drinking coffee when Oswald talked about Mexico City on Sunday morning. Leavelle:

"Around 10: AM while the Federal agents were talking to Oswald, Captain Fritz asked me if I would like a cup of coffee. We walked across the street to the White Plaza Hotel Coffee Shop had coffee and discussed the transfer. On our way back to the office ... By the time we returned to the third floor office it was about eleven AM. The federal agents were bringing to a close their questioning of Oswald ... ("Detective Leavelle's Personal Notes", n.d., https://www.seandegrilla.com/detective-leavelle-s-personal-notes)

That is, according to this account of Leavelle, Fritz was not even present most of the time before it was time for Oswald to go below to be killed. Here is what Holmes said was going on:

Mr. BELIN. Anything else about Russia? Did he ever say anything about going to Mexico? Was that ever covered?
Mr. HOLMES. Yes. To the extent that mostly about--well--he didn't spend, "Where did you get the money?" He didn't have much money and he said it didn't cost much money. He did say that where he stayed it cost $26 some odd, small ridiculous amount to eat, and another ridiculous small amount to stay all night, and that he went to the Mexican Embassy to try to get this permission to go to Russia by Cuba, but most of the talks that he wanted to talk about was how he got by with a little amount.
They said, "Well, who furnished you the money to go to Mexico?"
"Well, it didn't take much money." And it was along that angle, was the conversation.
Mr. BELIN. Did he admit that he went to Mexico?
Mr. HOLMES. Oh, yes.

Mr. BELIN. Did he say what community in Mexico he went to?
Mr. HOLMES. Mexico City.
Mr. BELIN. Did he say what he did while he was there?
Mr. HOLMES. He went to the Mexican consulate, I guess.
(Discussion off the record.)
Mr. BELIN. Now, with regard to this Mexican trip, did he say who he saw in Mexico?
Mr. HOLMES. Only that he went to the Mexican consulate or Embassy or something and wanted to get permission, or whatever it took to get to Cuba. They refused him and he became angry and he said he burst out of there, and I don't know. I don't recall now why he went into the business about how mad it made him.
He goes over to the Russian Embassy. He was already at the American. This was the Mexican--he wanted to go to Cuba.
Then he went to the Russian Embassy and he said, because he said then he wanted to go to Russia by way of Cuba, still trying to get to Cuba and try that angle and they refused and said, "Come back in 30 days," or something like that. And, he went out of there angry and disgusted.
Mr. BELIN. Did he go to the Cuban Embassy, did he say or not?
Mr. HOLMES. He may have gone there first, but the best of my recollection, it might have been Cuban and then the Russian, wherever he went at first, he wanted to get to Cuba, and then he went to the Russian to go by Cuba.
Mr. BELIN. Did he say why he wanted to go to Cuba?
Mr. HOLMES. No.
Mr. BELIN. Did--this wasn't reported in your interview in the memorandum that you wrote?
Mr. HOLMES. No.
Mr. BELIN. Is this something that you think you might have picked up from just reading the papers, or is this something you remember hearing?
Mr. HOLMES. That is what he said in there. 

Again, I do not understand the logic that all these witnesses were fabricating testimony--under oath with all the seriousness that means for personal jeopardy let alone conscience--and that physical evidence was being fabricated and planted to show Oswald was in Mexico City, against interest, when the interest of LBJ and Hoover after ca. midnight Nov 22, and then the Warren Commission appear to run in the opposite direction. I do not understand the thinking that says the FBI and Warren Commission were furiously undertaking extraordinarily elaborate machinations to fabricate witness testimony and physical evidence of an Oswald trip to Mexico City that never happened, when it flies in the face of plausibility and counter to reasonable motive. (What was going on in Mexico City when Oswald was there is of course a whole other set of issues, not to the point here.) There is also the question of was the CIA itself fooled, or was it knowingly fooling other agencies in reporting that Oswald had visited the Soviet embassy in Mexico City, and did the CIA have a track record of being fooled or fooling other agencies in that manner (I doubt it). 

Greg

I would seriously doubt the hearsay that Postal Inspector Harry Holmes relates here.  He states "he went to the Mexican Consulates, I guess ... ".  Then, he admits that none of this was reported in his memorandum of interview.  Holmes is not a reliable source on anything.  He is frankly a suspect in the entire affair.  

Holmes is the one and only person in Dallas to know the number of the money order that linked Oswald with the Mannlicher-Carcano rifle; the only person who claimed to have located the money order "stub" (and had access to postal money orders and GPO cancellation stamps); and then waited 4 hours before telling postal inspectors that this never-deposited, never-cashed money order could be found at the Federal Records Center in Washington, DC?

Harry D Holmes, a Dallas postal inspector, an active informant for the FBI (Dallas T-2 and T-10), who according to his abbreviated Warren testimony was "feeding change of addressses as bits of information to the FBI and Secret Service, and sort of a coordinating deal on it ..." (before he was cut off by David Belin and taken off the record). There exist no stenographic records or tape in evidence for Oswald's interrogation sessions ... just the word of Harry Holmes, whose summary was not submitted until December 17th, almost a month after the assassination. Then, under oath, he said he heard Oswald say things that others did not hear him say.  

The only non- law enforcement officer allowed to sit in during Oswald's final interrogation.  A guy who dropped his wife off at church the morning of Oswald’s transfer to county jail, and just happened to wander over to the police station where his friend Will Fritz was going to interview Oswald one more time, and asked to sit in Room 317 with Fritz, Forrest Sorrells of the Secret Service, and several deputies who were supposed to be guarding Oswald. And then Fritz allows Holmes to ask questions ...  a lowly off-duty postal Inspector walks in during an interrogation of the alleged assassin of the President and interrogates the prime suspect.

Really ... 

Gene

[Sandy Larsen]

10 hours ago, Matt Allison said:

 

 

It seems like this segment of "Frontline: Who was Lee Harvey Oswald?" was designed specifically to show that Oswald did indeed go to Mexico City. It even interviewed the two Australian girls he supposedly met on the bus, and they say they remembered Oswald.

In addition, it has the three KGB agents who said Oswald slammed his handgun down on the desk.

I don't believe any of them. Any ideas oh how they got the girls to say they remember Oswald? It's as though the CIA had some input or involvement in the making of some parts of the documentary.

 

[Matt Allison]

11 hours ago, Greg Doudna said:

One possibility in keeping with Belin behavior elsewhere is Belin could have asked where Holmes was going with his testimony on a particular point, before entering it into the record, i.e. Belin asking the witness a question off the record, finding the answer suitable, then asking the same question again on the record. That could be one possibility but who knows.

That guy was quite the weasel, wasn't he?

Like you could go to a Hollywood casting agent and say "We need a really weaselly dude for this upcoming project" and they would say "I know the perfect guy."

[James DiEugenio]

13 hours ago, Bob Ness said:

Do you have sources on that, Jim?

Yes I do Bob.   And its been out there for awhile.

Others have even named the two people.  I don't like doing that, I just used their code names.

[James DiEugenio]

4 hours ago, Gene Kelly said:

Bob

See the August 2021 Kennedys and King article by Paul Bleau "Exposing the FPCC, Part 2":

“Follow the money” is one of the things that the FBI and Warren Commission did not do in trying to understand how such a destitute person like Oswald could run an FPCC chapter, raise a family, and save money for Marina (at least $1600 in today’s money).[1] He was so poor that the White Russians paid for his YMCA fees. The FPCC added the following to this drifter’s cost of living: FPCC membership fees, renting of a space, hiring leafleteers, paying a fine for disturbing the peace, the purchase of rubber-stamping equipment, personal displacements, printing of up to five different pieces of literature, correspondence with the FPCC, and use of a Post Office Box…with not one single member to help absorb the costs. The following exchange between Oswald’s lawyer and Wesley Liebeler of the Warren Commission suggests something more plausible than Oswald giving away time and money for a passé organization rather than focusing on his growing family—he was paid $25 a day (Note that Oswald’s job at the Texas Schoolbook Depository paid $1.50 per hour):

This commentary is derived from Dean Andrews' July 21, 1964, Warren Commission testimony to Wesley Liebeler:

Mr. ANDREWS.  Only time I really paid attention to this boy, he-was in the front of the Maison Blanche Building giving out these kooky Castro things.

Mr. LIEBELER. When was this, approximately?  Mr. ANDREWS. I don’t remember. I was coming from the KBC building, and I walked past him. You know how you see somebody, recognize him. So, I turned around, came back, and asked him what he was doing giving that junk out. He said it was a job. I reminded him of the $25 he owed the office. He said he would come over there, but he never did.

Mr. LIEBELER. Did he tell you that he was getting paid to hand out this literature?  Mr. ANDREWS. Yes.

Mr. LIEBELGR. Did he tell you how much?  Mr. ANDREWS. No.

Mr. LIEBELER. Do you remember telling the FBI that he told you that he was being paid $25 a day for handing out these leaflets?   Mr. ANDREWS. I could have told them that. I know I reminded him of the $25. I may have it confused, the $25. What I do recall, he said it was a job. I guess I asked him how much he was making. They were little square chits a little bit smaller than the picture you have of him over there [indicating].

Mr. LIEBELER. He was handing out these leaflets?  Mr. ANDREWS. They were black-and-white pamphlets extolling the virtues of Castro, which around here doesn’t do too good. They have a lot of guys, Mexicanos and Cubanos, that will tear your head off if they see you fooling with these things. 

Gene

 

Nice one Gene. 👋

[James DiEugenio]

3 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

It seems like this segment of "Frontline: Who was Lee Harvey Oswald?" was designed specifically to show that Oswald did indeed go to Mexico City. It even interviewed the two Australian girls he supposedly met on the bus, and they say they remembered Oswald.

In addition, it has the three KGB agents who said Oswald slammed his handgun down on the desk.

I don't believe any of them. Any ideas oh how they got the girls to say they remember Oswald? It's as though the CIA had some input or involvement in the making of some parts of the documentary.

 

Got that one right Sandy.

Their so called bottom line about him being there, the visa application and photo, has been vitiated by David Josephs.

I have a problem with a show that features Carlos Bringuier, Ed Butler and Dick Helms. And does not inform the reader about the whole Duran story.  And culminates in that dog and pony show about the trigger guard print that Pat Speer did such a nice expose on.

Bottom line:  When Tony Summers asks to have his name taken off,  that is saying something.

I will be doing an essay on Gus Russo soon.

Edited December 31, 2022 by James DiEugenio

[Gerry Down]

23 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

Got that one right Sandy.

Their so called bottom line about him being there, the visa application and photo, has been vitiated by David Josephs.

I have a problem with a show that features Carlos Bringuier, Ed Butler and Dick Helms. And does not inform the reader about the whole Duran story.  And culminates in that dog and pony show about the trigger guard print that Pat Speer did such a nice expose on.

Bottom line:  When Tony Summers asks to have his name taken off,  that is saying something.

I will be doing an essay on Gus Russo soon.

Are you saying that Tony Summers did not want his name appearing in the credits for the 1993 Frontline documentary?

[Steve Roe]

23 hours ago, Mart Hall said:

I’m only a five year newbie to all this but it’s very difficult to accept that there were at least 4 security services involved in this and yet none of them are able to provide incontrovertible evidence that LHO who was killed on 11-24-63 was in attendance at either embassy.

His Cuban Visa application. Mirabal (Cuban Consulate in MXC) testified to the HSCA that he saw the application and it was legit. It was Oswald, no doubt. 

[Matt Allison]

3 hours ago, Gerry Down said:

Are you saying that Tony Summers did not want his name appearing in the credits for the 1993 Frontline documentary?

I believe it. In fact I had to use Vince Palamara's upload of that doc in order to show Summers' interview with the Odio sisters and Father Machann; the version PBS has on their YouTube channel does not contain that footage.

[Bob Ness]

4 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Yes I do Bob.   And its been out there for awhile.

Others have even named the two people.  I don't like doing that, I just used their code names.

Where would I find them or search for them? It's interesting for sure.

[Bob Ness]

8 hours ago, Gene Kelly said:

And then Fritz allows Holmes to ask questions ...  a lowly off-duty postal Inspector walks in during an interrogation of the alleged assassin of the President and interrogates the prime suspect.

Of course. Thanks for the previous response.

[James DiEugenio]

A preview os my Gus Russo article that blows up Roe.

Edited January 1, 2023 by James DiEugenio