BANG........BANG-BANG

[Joseph McBride]

Keep doing what you're doing, Gil. It's appreciated.

[Sean Coleman]

2 hours ago, Mark Ulrik said:

No, it makes posts harder to read and looks incredibly ugly. You're punishing the rest of us because you have a problem.

Mark, when reading Gil’s posts simply take two steps back and the script will appear to be normal sized. 
Hey presto, problem solved! 

 

[Gerry Down]

13 hours ago, Chris Bristow said:

I would do that but it drives me crazy to have to keep scrolling left and right because the magnified text doesn't fit on the screen.

It seems most of us here are getting pretty old. It used to be that the best advice for macular degeneration was to flood the reading material with as much light as possible. I wonder if increasing the brightness of the screen would give similar or less benefits.

I said I'd mention it in case it would be of any use. That's tough losing your sight like that.

[Gil Jesus]

3 hours ago, Mark Ulrik said:

No, it makes posts harder to read and looks incredibly ugly. You're punishing the rest of us because you have a problem.

Funny how it's only the Warren Commission supporters who have a problem with my typesize.

You people can't debate the evidence so now you're resorting to bitching about my type size ?

That's all you got ?

LOL.

The world is a diverse place with people who have special needs. It's not taylor-made for you. If you can't deal with that, too bad.

Bottom line----Nobody's forcing you to read my posts.

Edited January 26, 2023 by Gil Jesus

[Charles Blackmon]

6 hours ago, Mark Ulrik said:

No, it makes posts harder to read and looks incredibly ugly. You're punishing the rest of us because you have a problem.

There is N-O-T-H-I-N-G ugly or hard to read about Gil's choice of font size.

[Gil Jesus]

2 hours ago, Charles Blackmon said:

There is N-O-T-H-I-N-G ugly or hard to read about Gil's choice of font size.

I can't believe that these people are trying to make an issue of this.

All they have to do is to hold down the <CTRL> key and press the DASH key ( the one to the right of the "0" key ) and the font will reduce.

To make it larger, hold down the <CTRL> key and press the <+> key ( two over from the "0" key ) and the font will increase.

They just want to distract from the topic and avoid the evidence.

Edited January 26, 2023 by Gil Jesus

[Joe Bauer]

10 hours ago, Gil Jesus said:

I can't believe that these people are trying to make an issue of this.

All they have to do is to hold down the <CTRL> key and press the DASH key ( the one to the right of the "0" key ) and the font will reduce.

To make it larger, hold down the <CTRL> key and press the <+> key ( two over from the "0" key ) and the font will increase.

They just want to distract from the topic and avoid the evidence.

You tell em Gil!

Stand your ground!

 

 

Edited January 27, 2023 by Joe Bauer

[Mark Ulrik]

1 hour ago, Gil Jesus said:

I can't believe that these people are trying to make an issue of this.

All they have to do is to hold down the <CTRL> key and press the DASH key ( the one to the right of the "0" key ) and the font will reduce.

To make it larger, hold down the <CTRL> key and press the <+> key ( two over from the "0" key ) and the font will increase.

They just want to distract from the topic and avoid the evidence.

Gotta love the self-righteous rhetoric. My eyesight also isn't what it used to be, but that's my problem to deal with. I've found glasses (and sometimes keyboard shortcuts) to be helpful when I need to read the fine print. But, hey, perhaps I'm wrong and Gil is right, and we should kindly ask the forum admin to raise the default font size by a visually pleasing 50 %.

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

On 1/25/2023 at 12:59 AM, Gil Jesus said:

Was the sound of the shots proof of a second gunman ?

By Gil Jesus ( 2023 )

One of the pieces of evidence crucial to the Warren Commission's conclusion of a lone gunman was the sequence of the shots.

The Commission, in its report, stated that the minimum time required to operate the bolt of the CE 139 rifle and fire a shot was 2.25 seconds.

That means that any sound emanating from the rifle as a result of firing around throught it, would also take a minimum of 2.25 seconds.

The speed of sound is affected by temperature, the warmer it is, the faster sound travels. Since it was 70 degrees in Dallas that day, the speed of sound in Dealey Plaza was about 1,129 feet per second ( 344 m/s ).

http://artsites.ucsc.edu/EMS/music/tech_background/TE-01/soundSpeed.html#:~:text=At 21 degrees C


Suffice it to say that while the position of witnesses in Dealey Plaza was relevent to WHEN the sound of the shots reached their positions, it had no bearing on the number of shots they heard nor did it have any bearing on the sequence of those shots.

For example, if one stood under the sixth floor window of the Texas School Book Depository, one should hear the sounds of the shots spaced apart at a minimum of 2.25 seconds, the time the Warren Commission's expert, FBI Agent Lyndal Shaneyfelt, said it took to fire a shot and cycle the bolt on the CE 139 rifle. ( 5 H 153 )

And if one stood further down on Elm St., one should hear the shots with the same 2.25 second spacing since the speed of sound was the same down by the triple underpass as it was under the sixth floor window.

The timing of WHEN you first heard the shots would be different because of your position, but the sequence would be the same because the speed of sound was a constant.

Unless of course, the unlikely possibility that the temperature changed drastically between shots.

To prove this point, many of the witnesses described a shot sequence that was incompatable with three shots being fired from the CE 139 rifle. These witnesses were scattered around Dealey Plaza and yet described the same shooting sequence with a first shot, a pause and then two shots right on top of each other.

Witness testimony and accounts can be a reliable tool for investigators when those accounts corroborate each other.

So what did the witnesses say ?

In 1966, Mark Lane interviewed Lee Bowers, a railroad employee who had been in a 14 foot tower in the parking lot behind the picket fence. He recreated the sequence he heard:

https://gil-jesus.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/lee-bowers-sequence.mp4
 

Patsy Paschall shot her film from the third floor of the old red courthouse. This is what she said she heard:
 

https://gil-jesus.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/patsy-paschall-sequence.mp4
 

Newspaper reporter Mary Woodward stood on the north side of Elm St. This is what she heard:
 

https://gil-jesus.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/mary-woodward-sequence.mp4

 

And these are not the only witnesses who heard the first shot, a pause and the last two shots close together. So close, in fact, that they could not have been fired from the CE 139 rifle.

Witness Victoria Adams watched the motorcade from an office on the fourth floor of the Texas School Book Depository. She testified that, "we heard a shot and then it was a pause and then a second shot and then a third shot." ( 6 H 388 )

Witness Bonnie Ray Williams was also inside the Texas School Book Depository on the fifth floor. He testified that, "... there was two shots rather close together. The second shot and the third shot was closer together than the first shot and the second shot, as I remember." ( 3 H 175 )

Secret Service Agent, Roy Kellerman, who rode in the front seat of the Presidential limo, described the first shot as a firecracker and the last two as shots, describing them as "...like a double bang----bang, bang." ( 2 H 76 )

Those were the witnesses who testified before the Warren Commission and whose testimony the Commission chose to ignore.
 

But there were other witnesses who the FBI interviewed and whose accounts corroborated those witnesses who testified. The FBI made sure these witnesses were kept off the witness list and never appeared before the Warren Commission.

Witnesses like Carolyn Walther, who stood on the east side of Houston St, just 17 feet from the intersection of Elm. She told the FBI that, "there was a pause after this first report, then a second and third report almost at the same time". ( CD 7, pg.25 )

Secret Service Agent George Hickey, who rode in the back seat of the follow-up car behind the President's limo and reported that he heard, "two reports....in such rapid succession that there seemed to be practically no time element between them." ( 18 H 762 )

And Mrs. Pearl Springer, who stood with Carolyn Walther on the east side of Houston St.. She told the FBI that, "after the first shot there was a pause and then two more shots were fired close together." ( CD 7, pg. 26 )

This is a diverse group of nine witnesses who positions varied. Some were inside the building, some were outside but in close proximity of the building. One was near the grassy knoll. One was behind the building in a tower. One was in the front seat of the limo. One was in the old courthouse.

But they all heard the same thing; a double bang for the second and third shots, a proven physical impossibility for a single gunman firing the CE 139 rifle.

The best way to scientifically examine the (supposed) heard bangs is to start with the (true) seen bangs. 

The seen or obvious bangs go like this......

Pseudo Z113 ..... Oswald's shot-1 ..... ricochets offa the signal arm & puts a hole in the floor of the limo.

Z218/219 ........... Oswald's shot-2 .... the magic bullet.

Z301 say ............... Hickey's shot-1 ........... possibly bloodies Tague... first of 4 or 5 or 6 auto shots of AR15.

Z304 say ............... Hickeys'shot-2 ............ tarmac or grass or concrete.

Z307 say ............... Hickey's shot-3 ........... tarmac or grass or concrete.

Z310 say ............... Hickey's 2nd last shot .. puts dent in chrome strip.

Z313 ....................... Hickey's last shot ......... hits JFK in head & cracks windshield.

The heard bangs (or actually bang......................bang......... flurry of bangs) will depend on where standing.

Z113 to Z218.5 is 105.5 frames or 5.8 sec.

Z218.5 to Z301 is  82.5 frames or 4.5 sec.

Z301 to Z313 is      12 frames or (a flurry of) 0.7 sec.   

TOTAL is 5.8 plus 5.2 ie 11.0 seconds (ie what Connally said in early days).

So, now u can all examine the statements (re the heard bangs) with a much better BS meter.

Edited January 27, 2023 by Marjan Rynkiewicz

[Ron Bulman]

So, the nearer blind some of us are still leading the deaf to Truth about hearing (bang, bang bang).  Brighter lights, bigger print, I don't care.  I'll get out my magnifying glass if necessary.

[Gil Jesus]

18 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

You tell em Gil!

Stand your ground!

 

 

I've added more witnesses to the website version:

https://gil-jesus.com/bang-bang-bang/

[Benjamin Cole]

On 1/25/2023 at 7:07 AM, Pat Speer said:

From patspeer.com, Chapter 9...

 

And now the moment we’ve been waiting for (at least the moment I’ve been waiting for)…the results of our eyewitness analysis. With 70 witnesses out of the plaza or to the south of Elm Street, 70 witnesses in the motorcade, and 154 assorted witnesses on bridges, along Elm Street, or in the School Book Depository, we’ve looked at the words of 294 witnesses to see if they add up to something. Of this 294, 89 failed to tell us much that would indicate when and how the shots were fired. Of the remaining 205, 102 made statements suggesting there were three shots fired, with the first shot being heard between Z-190 and Z-224 and the last 2 shots being heard in rapid succession after a short pause. Another 57 made statements suggesting that the first shot was heard between Z-190 and Z-224, but made no statements indicating the last two shots were bunched together. Another 13 heard the last two shots fired closely together, and yet another could only swear to hearing two shots, but thought there may have been a third, which was wholly consistent with the last two being fired closely together. This means that 173 of the 205 witnesses described the shots in a relatively consistent manner. Of the remaining 32, 18 heard four or more shots, and another 3 made statements indicating there was a shot after the head shot. This leaves just 11 witnesses whose statements can reasonably be seen as supporting the shooting scenario theorized by John Lattimer, Gerald Posner and Dale Myers. And 8 of these 11, once their words are compared to the various photographs and films, can be used to argue for a different scenario. This leaves just 3 witnesses who can be used to support the LPM scenario over other scenarios—J.M. Head, Mrs. Robert Reid and Geneva Hine. Well, Head told us nothing about the timing of the shots, other than that there was a bigger gap before the last shot. (I mean, he may have thought the first two shots were bang-bang with a two second gap before the last shot--we don't know). And Reid testified in a manner supporting that the first shot was fired after frame 160. Now that leaves Hine, who didn't even see the impact of the shots. She merely described the shooting in a manner more consistent with a first shot at frame 160 than at 190. That’s it. The TV simulations depicting a first shot miss and a five second gap between the second and third shots are therefore incredibly at odds with the available evidence. No matter how many shooters fired on the motorcade, no matter who fired the fatal bullet, the statements of the eyewitnesses indicate THE SHOOTING DID NOT HAPPEN AS PURPORTED BY LATTIMER, POSNER, MYERS, AND BUGLIOSI.

In general, eye-ear witnesses are dicey.

But I think Pat's work indicated a pattern of shots, bang...bang-bang heard by a large majority fo witnesses. 

In addition dozens, including veterans and policemen, smelled gunsmoke in Dealey Plaza in the immediate aftermath of the JFKA. The wind was blowing towards the TSBD, as we know from women's skirts and coats. 

So...who smells gunsmoke by mistake, or miscounts gunsmoke? 

Together, the ear and nose-witnesses strongly suggest at least a smoke-and-bang show in the GK area during the JFKA.

A diversion? That's my best guess. 

Posner's book is weaker than a month-old banana on the gunsmoke issue. He suggests maybe people were smelling gunsmoke from LHO's gun, downwind. 

[Paul Cummings]

2 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

In general, eye-ear witnesses are dicey.

But I think Pat's work indicated a pattern of shots, bang...bang-bang heard by a large majority fo witnesses. 

In addition dozens, including veterans and policemen, smelled gunsmoke in Dealey Plaza in the immediate aftermath of the JFKA. The wind was blowing towards the TSBD, as we know from women's skirts and coats. 

So...who smells gunsmoke by mistake, or miscounts gunsmoke? 

Together, the ear and nose-witnesses strongly suggest at least a smoke-and-bang show in the GK area during the JFKA.

A diversion? That's my best guess. 

Posner's book is weaker than a month-old banana on the gunsmoke issue. He suggests maybe people were smelling gunsmoke from LHO's gun, downwind. 

Well thank you Gerald. It makes sense why no one smelled gun powder on the 6th floor because of the downwind. They likely had a better chance of smelling Oswald's fart in the wind than gunpowder from the 6th floor. Comical.

[Gil Jesus]

2 hours ago, Paul Cummings said:

Well thank you Gerald. It makes sense why no one smelled gun powder on the 6th floor because of the downwind. They likely had a better chance of smelling Oswald's fart in the wind than gunpowder from the 6th floor. Comical.

FWIW, Harold Norman was on the fifth floor with the window open right under the "assassin's perch" and never identified smelling gunpowder. The only people who reported smelling gunpowder were the people at ground level.

Edited January 27, 2023 by Gil Jesus

[Joe Bauer]

3 hours ago, Gil Jesus said:

FWIW, Harold Norman was on the fifth floor with the window open right under the "assassin's perch" and never identified smelling gunpowder. The only people who reported smelling gunpowder were the people at ground level.

Harold Norman is one witness who never described or at least wavered on the "BANG...BANG BANG" shot time frame sequence.

Here is what Harold Norman said under oath in his Warren Commission testimony:

Mr. BALL. I want to call your attention to one part of the statement and I will ask you if you told him that:

"Just after the President passed by, I heard a shot and

>>>several seconds later I heard two more shots. <<<

I knew that the shots had come from directly above me, and I could hear the expended cartridges fall to the floor. I could also hear the bolt action of the rifle. I also saw some dust fall from the ceiling of the fifth floor and I felt sure that whoever had fired the shots was directly above me."

Did you make that statement to the Secret Service man?

Mr. NORMAN. I don't remember making a statement that I knew the shots came from directly above us. I didn't make that statement. And

>>> I don't remember saying I heard several seconds later <<<

I merely told him that I heard three shots because I didn't have any idea what time it was."

 

Why would the Secret Service agent who took Harold Norman's statement the very day of the assassination write down that Norman said..."several seconds later I heard two more shots."?

What an off-the-wall thing to write down in a statement by Harold Norman taken by the SS agent. Especially if it wasn't true? 

Did the agent just come up with the "several seconds later I heard two more shots " Norman quote on his own?

If so, why?  In reality, such a statement by Norman could have ominous impact in regards to shooting scenario conflicting testimony by so many others that day.

The statement taken and written by the SS agent regards Norman's words that very day might back up the many other statements describing the shooting sequence as "BANG...BANG BANG."

Who do you believe here. The statement taking SS agent or Harold Norman?

Typical Dealey Plaza conflicting testimony conundrum.

 

 

 

Edited January 27, 2023 by Joe Bauer