Marina Oswald

[Charles Blackmon]

It was extremely rare in 1962 for a Soviet woman to be allowed to leave the USSR with their American husband. Yet Marina Oswald was allowed to do just that with no real impediment. Was this just "luck", as she told the HSCA in 1978, or could it have more to do with the hidden intelligence mission of Oswald, who was publicly portrayed as a defector and possible traitor to the U.S.?

Theres a lot of really suspicious testimony from Marina during the HSCA. She even claimed Oswald wound the film on the Imperial Reflex camera between taking the backyard pictures, and yet we get two photos 133-a and 133-b that the backgrounds are carbon copies of each other, and Lee's head is pretty much the same between the two. Totally laughable.

 

[Gerry Down]

21 minutes ago, Charles Blackmon said:

It was extremely rare in 1962 for a Soviet woman to be allowed to leave the USSR with their American husband. Yet Marina Oswald was allowed to do just that with no real impediment. Was this just "luck", as she told the HSCA in 1978, or could it have more to do with the hidden intelligence mission of Oswald, who was publicly portrayed as a defector and possible traitor to the U.S.?

INS didn't want to let her into the country but the State department intervened and told them to let her in because a child was involved, June, and it would look bad if they broke up a family by letting Lee back into the U.S. but not Marina and June caught in the middle of all this. 

[Jonathan Cohen]

7 minutes ago, Gerry Down said:

INS didn't want to let her into the country but the State department intervened and told them to let her in because a child was involved, June, and it would look bad if they broke up a family by letting Lee back into the U.S. but not Marina and June caught in the middle of all this. 

Gerry is correct. There was no "hidden intelligence mission of Oswald."

[Steve Thomas]

I posted in the Education Forum September 20, 2021

Marina - suitors - plastics

https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/27386-marina-suitors-plastics/#comment-447476

“It has long been my privately held belief that the reason for Marina's whirlwind romance, marriage, and approval to emigrate to the United States was because the Soviets wanted to get Marina to the U.S. in general, and Fort Worth specifically because of its connection to the aerospace industry.

I have been puzzled by Marina's suitors seemingly being connected to the field of plastics. Wasn't there a guy before Lee Oswald, (Robert Webster) and wasn't he connected to plastics - and specifically to spray nozzles?

Also, Alexander Kleinlerer was smitten with her and visited her at Lorena Hall's while she and Lee H. were separated in 1962.

 

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/kleinler.htm

AFFIDAVIT

Alexander Kleinlerer of 3542 Kent Street, Fort Worth, Texas, being duly sworn, says:

“I am and have for several years been a foreign representative of Loma Industries, a plastics production company, located at 3000 West Pafford Street, Fort Worth, Texas.”

While I was looking for something else, I stumbled across this today, and went, "Hmmm..."

https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP80-00809A000500170001-9.pdf

CIA-RDP80-00809A000500170001-9.pdf 53.36 kB · 6 downloads

So the Russians were having problems with the ceramic coating on reentry vehicles were they?

 

don't know if Marina was supposed to receive information from someone, or to pass along information to someone else. I would say White Russians, yes, but if you look at their backgrounds, they were all geologists, or geological engineers. And who made contact with Marina almost immediately upon her arrival in Fort Worth?

Max Clark.

MEMO: THE LEE HARVEY OSWALD CASE #351164 (ADDRESS BOOK)

biography of Max Clark Maxwell Edward Clark

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=9836&relPageId=3

“Max Edward Clark was employed by Convair, a division of General Dynamics Corporation, Fort Worth, Texas, as a “Supervisor of Industrial Security and Investigation”, requiring access to classified matter up to and including, Top Secret”.

Now, you tell me.

Communists or White Russians, that's all superfluous. In the early 1960's, the Russians had two main interests: space flight, and atomic bombs. The rest is all just background noise.

 

Steve Thomas

 

[John Cotter]

1 hour ago, Jonathan Cohen said:

Gerry is correct. There was no "hidden intelligence mission of Oswald."

How do you know this?

[Bob Ness]

6 minutes ago, John Cotter said:

How do you know this?

The same way he quoted him as saying "hidden intelligence mission of Oswald" which of course he didn't say. To wit:

1 hour ago, Jonathan Cohen said:

Gerry is correct. There was no "hidden intelligence mission of Oswald."

This was Gerry's actual quote. 

1 hour ago, Gerry Down said:

INS didn't want to let her into the country but the State department intervened and told them to let her in because a child was involved, June, and it would look bad if they broke up a family by letting Lee back into the U.S. but not Marina and June caught in the middle of all this. 

So there ya go.

Edited April 6, 2023 by Bob Ness

[John Cotter]

2 minutes ago, Bob Ness said:

The same way he quoted him as saying "hidden intelligence mission of Oswald" which of course he didn't say. To wit:

This was Gerry's actual quote. 

So there ya go.

Thank you, Bob.

[Bob Ness]

5 minutes ago, John Cotter said:

Thank you, Bob.

Notice I didn't have to link to an someone else's hour-long video or blog post to rebut that error hahaha?

[Charles Blackmon]

15 minutes ago, John Cotter said:

How do you know this?

Why, because LN author >fill in the blank< said so of course.

[Gerry Down]

2 hours ago, Charles Blackmon said:

It was extremely rare in 1962 for a Soviet woman to be allowed to leave the USSR with their American husband. Yet Marina Oswald was allowed to do just that with no real impediment. Was this just "luck", as she told the HSCA in 1978, or could it have more to do with the hidden intelligence mission of Oswald, who was publicly portrayed as a defector and possible traitor to the U.S.?

Theres a lot of really suspicious testimony from Marina during the HSCA. She even claimed Oswald wound the film on the Imperial Reflex camera between taking the backyard pictures, and yet we get two photos 133-a and 133-b that the backgrounds are carbon copies of each other, and Lee's head is pretty much the same between the two. Totally laughable.

 

This makes no sense. You seem to be suggesting that LHO was in the USSR on a CIA "hidden intelligence mission" and tie this to Marina being "allowed to leave the USSR". The CIA or U.S. had no control over whether the USSR would allow her to leave, that was up to the USSR. 

Unless the CIA phoned up the USSR and told them "We sent LHO over to ye on a secret mission. Will ye now allow his wife to come back here with him". And the Russians said "Yeah no problem, we'll make the exception so and allow her to leave."

Once the USSR gave Marina the permission to leave the USSR (something the U.S. had no control over), the State Department decided it would look bad from a PR point of view that the Russians were facilitating a family (Lee, Marina and June) to stay together while the U.S. was happy to separate the family. And so the State Department gave in and allowed Marina to come to the U.S. in order to keep the family together. 

[Jonathan Cohen]

25 minutes ago, Charles Blackmon said:

Why, because LN author >fill in the blank< said so of course.

No.. rather, because the preponderance of the evidence does not support the claim that Oswald was in Russia on a U.S. intelligence mission.

[Bob Ness]

18 minutes ago, Gerry Down said:

Once the USSR gave Marina the permission to leave the USSR (something the U.S. had no control over), the State Department decided it would look bad from a PR point of view that the Russians were facilitating a family (Lee, Marina and June) to stay together while the U.S. was happy to separate the family. And so the State Department gave in and allowed Marina to come to the U.S. in order to keep the family together. 

I get what you're saying Gerry but I've grown quite skeptical of the "Beaver Cleaver" innocent 50's style justification given by State. Possibly that was it. But that doesn't exclude potential shenanigans by the CIA or KGB involving someone who certainly looks like a sparrow to me. Spy games get so convoluted it's hard to say what their motivations could be. The Soviets could very easily have been aware of Oswald being a (possible) dangle, or at least suspect it, and rig him up with an attractive companion. That kind of talent isn't difficult to task to other targets either (consider Anna Chapman or Maria Butina). Trust me it wouldn't be a first. 

That may not be the case but if it were the case, that's what it would look like, roughly.

Edited April 6, 2023 by Bob Ness

[Bob Ness]

deleted

Edited April 6, 2023 by Bob Ness

[Gerry Down]

2 minutes ago, Bob Ness said:

I get what you're saying Gerry but I've grown quite skeptical of the "Beaver Cleaver" innocent 50's style justification given by State. Possibly that was it. But that doesn't exclude potential shenanigans by the CIA or KGB involving someone who certainly looks like a sparrow to me. Spy games get so convoluted it's hard to say what their motivations could be. The Soviets could very easily have been aware of Oswald being a (possible) dangle, or at least suspect it, and rig him up with an attractive companion.

Trust me it wouldn't be a first. 

Many Americans came back from the USSR with a Russian wife who then divorced the guy. So there was nothing unusual about Russian wives coming to the U.S. with their husbands. Of course such women then had to be watched, which the FBI did with Marina via Hosty.

Was Marina a swallow? That's possible but separate from the idea LHO was on a CIA "hidden intelligence mission".

[Bob Ness]

1 minute ago, Gerry Down said:

Many Americans came back from the USSR with a Russian wife who then divorced the guy. So there was nothing unusual about Russian wives coming to the U.S. with their husbands. Of course such women then had to be watched, which the FBI did with Marina via Hosty.

Was Marina a swallow? That's possible but separate from the idea LHO was on a CIA "hidden intelligence mission".

He may not have been wittingly. Has it been proven? I would say no from what I know. Is there enough information available to suspect that as a possibility? I think so. It could be an area worth investigating.