Marina Oswald

[Gerry Down]

While many American men came back to the US with Russian wives, Oswald ordinarily would not have been allowed to bring Marina by virtue of the fact he was not in good standing with the US over threatening to reveal military secrets. Only men in good standing could bring a Russian wife in. This was the INSs point. But because a child was involved, the State Department made an exception for the trouble-maker Oswald and said to let Marina in. And so she got in.

[Chris Bristow]

133a, 133b and 133c do not have the same background. The camera is a bit lower and tilted down more in 133a. If you look at the top of the stairway post on the right side you can see where the roof line of the house next door meets the post. It is a little different in all three photos because the camera height had changed. This is not due to any type of distortion and shows the background is not the same in any of the backyard photos. The camera height change is apparent in other aspects of the photos too, but most obvious where the post meets the roof line.

I Know Jack White claimed that they just Keystoned the same photo but that would not change where the roofline meets the post. 

It is a fact that the camera tilt  will cause exactly the effect that he saw. Tilting the photo in the enlarger will create the exact same effect as tilting the camera when the photo was taken. So when Jack White tilted the photo in the enlarger he was doing the exact process necessary to correct/reverse the keystoning that occurred naturally from tilting the camera in the original photo. All you have to do is tilt it in the opposite direction.

When you tilt the camera down below the level plane it causes straight vertical lines on the left side to lean out to the left at the top. Straight vertical lines on the right side of the photo will lean out to the right. If you tilt the camera above the horizontal plane the opposite effect happens and the vertical lines appear to lean inward towards the top of the photo.

[John Cotter]

2 hours ago, Bob Ness said:

Notice I didn't have to link to an someone else's hour-long video or blog post to rebut that error hahaha?

You could even go further into economically surgical Socratic mode.

Jonathan said, ‘There was no “hidden intelligence mission of Oswald.”’

Jonathan literally doesn’t know what he’s talking about since, by definition, what’s “hidden” is unknown to him.

He shot himself in the foot with his dogmatic statement.

[Pete Mellor]

I realise this quote is from Edward Epstein's 'Legend' & I'm not a great fan of this author, but, interesting passage:-

@Through its mail intercept programme which monitored letters sent from the Soviet Union to selected cities in the U.S., the CIA received further information about the Oswalds during the summer of '62.  Even return addresses provided clues.  For example, a letter sent to Marina from Ella Soboleva in Leningrad was subsequently traced from the return address on the envelope to the home of Igor Pavel Sobolev, whose name corresponded in the CIA computer to that of a suspected agent of the First Chief Directorate of the KGB who had been stationed in Vienna up to 1961. The question of whether this was an innocuous letter from the daughter of Sobolev or some confusion of names could not be determined by the CIA's tracing system.

 

 

[Gerry Down]

9 minutes ago, Pete Mellor said:

I realise this quote is from Edward Epstein's 'Legend' & I'm not a great fan of this author, but, interesting passage:-

@Through its mail intercept programme which monitored letters sent from the Soviet Union to selected cities in the U.S., the CIA received further information about the Oswalds during the summer of '62.  Even return addresses provided clues.  For example, a letter sent to Marina from Ella Soboleva in Leningrad was subsequently traced from the return address on the envelope to the home of Igor Pavel Sobolev, whose name corresponded in the CIA computer to that of a suspected agent of the First Chief Directorate of the KGB who had been stationed in Vienna up to 1961. The question of whether this was an innocuous letter from the daughter of Sobolev or some confusion of names could not be determined by the CIA's tracing system.

 

 

Do you think this could be a pre-arranged effort by the KGB to make contact with Marina once she arrived in the U.S. ?

The KGB though did have an awful lot of employees. It was much bigger than the CIA.

[Pete Mellor]

10 minutes ago, Gerry Down said:

Do you think this could be a pre-arranged effort by the KGB to make contact with Marina once she arrived in the U.S. ?

The KGB though did have an awful lot of employees. It was much bigger than the CIA.

Who knows Gerry?  Seems a pretty clumsy way for any Soviet intell. contact, but added to the Leningrad Webster address in Marina's diary!?!

[Bob Ness]

2 hours ago, John Cotter said:

Jonathan literally doesn’t know what he’s talking about since, by definition, what’s “hidden” is unknown to him.

Hahaha yeah didn't think about that. I'll use it next time.

[Bob Ness]

58 minutes ago, Gerry Down said:

The KGB though did have an awful lot of employees. It was much bigger than the CIA.

It's said the KGB had more assets INTHE US than the CIA had employees. Dunno. 120,000 was bandied about at one time but I forget what time period. Could have been later.

[Tom Gram]

14 hours ago, Gerry Down said:

Do you think this could be a pre-arranged effort by the KGB to make contact with Marina once she arrived in the U.S. ?

The KGB though did have an awful lot of employees. It was much bigger than the CIA.

This is speculation, but if Marina was not already some sort of asset/agent, the KGB would have certainly developed an interest in her once she came to America. I bet she was approached at some point. 

When the Oswalds were hanging out with the undoubtedly KGB-infiltrated White Russians and Lee was working at JCS, they were such obvious intel targets that the KGB would have been stupid not to try something. 

While Marina was staying at Elena Hall’s place, international man of mystery Alex Kleinlerer suddenly swoops in and starts banging Hall while she was separated from her husband. I suspect Kleinlerer was more than just a horny plastics salesman, but it’s tough to say for sure. 

[Charles Blackmon]

Wouldn't Oswald need to have a security clearance to do work at JCS, considering the company's military contracts? How could someone who was publicly portrayed as a traitor be gifted with a security clearance? 

[Steve Thomas]

31 minutes ago, Tom Gram said:

I suspect Kleinlerer was more than just a horny plastics salesman, but it’s tough to say for sure. 

Tom,

See: Commission Document 1066 - FBI Gemberling Report of 28 May 1964 re: Oswald - Russia/Cuba

page 554

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11462#relPageId=566&tab=page

 

Kleinlerer was employed by Lomo Industries of Fort Worth, TX.

Max Clark and his wife have been “fairly good friends with Dimytruk and Kleinlerer for the past six or eight months.”

 

 

Robert Howard in the Education Forum 2/1/2006

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/659-lee-harvey-oswald/?page=2

 

“I have a very serious request concerning Lee Harvey Oswald's notebook. In it there is a listing for Lomo Industries, Inc. The Dallas Phone Directory as well as the Business Directory for the same year to my knowledge DO NOT have such a listing, however there is a Loma Industries, Inc with offices in Dallas and Ft. Worth. Can anyone enlighten me about this listing? Is it possible that Oswald's dyslexia, (he was dyslexic, right?) may have something to do with this? Any response is greatly appreciated.”

 

Jack White in the Education Forum 2/2/2006

 

LOMA PLASTICS (Loma Industries) was a local manufacturer of plastic goods, such as kitchenware, etc. They had a manufacturing plant in Fort Worth. I do not find them listed in the FW yellow pages.

Jack

 

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/kleinler.htm

AFFIDAVIT

Alexander Kleinlerer of 3542 Kent Street, Fort Worth, Texas, being duly sworn, says:

 

“I am and have for several years been a foreign representative of Loma Industries, a plastics production company, located at 3000 West Pafford Street, Fort Worth, Texas.”

 

Posted by James Richards 2/2/2006

 

Robert,

I'm going by memory here which is a dangerous ploy but I seem to remember that Loma Industries had a foreign representative named Alexander Kleinlerer who was friends with George De Mohrenschildt. I also seem to recall that this clique which included George Bouhe got together to provide clothes and the like for the Oswald family.

Loma Industries burned down in 1965 I think it was.

James

Lydia Dimytruk is Kleinlerer's girlfriend.

For more information on Lydia Dimytruk, see: (she is a piece of work!)

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/FBI%20Records%20Files/105-82555/105-82555%20More%20Referrals/105-82555%20More%20Referrals%203-04.pdf

pp. 13-33, Suspected of being a Russian spy. Formerly married to Vasily Kostenko, also suspected of being a Russian spy.

She marries Pavel Dimytruk in 1956. Emigrates to the U.S. In 1959 and divorces him in 1960.

Sound familiar?

 

Read the experoence of George Bloodworth

FBI - HSCA Subject File: Lydia Dymitruk (page 9 in the file, page 7 of the Report)

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=129757&search=Alexander_Kleinlerer#relPageId=9&tab=page

On December 3, 1968 the FBI interviewed a George Bloodworth, who was a Warrant Officer Candidate in the U.S. Army Helicopter School in Mineral Wells, Texas. He met George Bouhe in the apartment of Alexander Kleinlerer. Bloodworth had formerly been in the Marines and had been stationed at the U.S. Embassy in Tunisia. He was very security conscious. Kleinlerer left the apartment to buy some food at a delicatessen, and Bloodworth and Bouhe got to talking. While they were talking, Bloodworth got the impression that Bouhe was “one of us”, meaning an Army Intelligence Agent.

 

https://archive.org/stream/JFKNovember32017Release/docid-32263534_djvu.txt

Read these Army Intelligence Reports of Bloodworth's encounter with Kleinlerer.

Steve Thomas

 

 

 

[Steve Thomas]

1 hour ago, Tom Gram said:

I suspect Kleinlerer was more than just a horny plastics salesman, but it’s tough to say for sure. 

Tom,

Remember what I said about Marina and plastics earlier.

In the early 1960's, the Soviets were interested in two things: atomic weaponry and space travel.

Their spacecraft were burning up on re-entry into the atmosphere. The Americans had developed a way to make those heat shields out of ceramic. The Soviets were desperate to get their hands on that technology.

Steve Thomas

 

[Gerry Down]

Wasn't Robert Webster involved in some type of plastics?

[Joe Bauer]

1 hour ago, Tom Gram said:

 

While Marina was staying at Elena Hall’s place, international man of mystery Alex Kleinlerer suddenly swoops in and starts banging Hall while she was separated from her husband. I suspect Kleinlerer was more than just a horny plastics salesman, but it’s tough to say for sure. 

Was Elena Hall an attractive woman?

Sounds like many of the White Russians were horney.

We all know George DeMohrenschildts was a serial rogue. Peter Gregory seemed smitten with Marina as were others.

[Lawrence Schnapf]

LHO may not have been on a "hidden intelligence mission" as traditionally understood. His defection could have been simply to test the response of the Soviets and also perhaps be some ploy by Angleton to find the suspected mole. LHO's file was in a special location so anyone looking for it would have been flagged. 

It would be the ultimate spy game intrigue if the Soviets responded by then having Marina hook up with LHO and return to the US to see how we responded.

Dulles made a point in the WC depositions of McCone and Helms to put distance between the State Department and CIA. State could have intervened for their own agenda. No one should presume these agencies were coordinating or even informing each other of their covert activities. Reality is not that simple. And then there is the lack of cooperation by State with the JFK Records Act.