RFK jr says CIA killed JFK

[David Josephs]

On 5/11/2023 at 10:45 AM, Chuck Schwartz said:

Thank you , David, for your very good respose.  I believe (no proof) that Dulles and LeMay settled on the narrative that the cover up would  take the day before  the autopsy occurred  and thus the way the autopsy would have to go to support the aforementioned narrative.  That is why LeMay was there and was making sure the narrative  for the cover up and the autopsy report did not contradict each other.

Thanks Chuck...  your thoughts make sense as one still sees how Dulles had his hands still in so much , even after he was fired.

One gets the impression of controlled chaos...  no doubt some things were "at the moment" decisions.. getting the film to Rowley and onto Hawkeye, then back to NPIC, by default now includes the SS chief, which falls under Sec of Treasury Dillion.  Suffice to say, when Prouty talks heavy weights able to influence Protection, I'd think that must include the SS stand-down as well.

 

[Paul Brancato]

7 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Has the world gone upside down?  Look at this:

https://www.counterpunch.org/2023/05/12/should-the-left-give-rfk-jr-a-chance/?fbclid=IwAR1sa7H-alni1_Q0Z3GZvD-YnRZr7iFFN2YDGK8OlhcO2SNGociylFDaawo

Great summation. Exactly how I feel. 

[Gene Kelly]

On 5/8/2023 at 8:49 PM, David Josephs said:

I hear you on this but...  that seems to me way more information than Oswald would ever need to know.

Alvarado (red headed negro and $6500) was a Phillips asset imo doing what he was supposed to do for that Cuban end game. (intimidating doc # 1)

Most people are aware but don't incorporate Tampa, and Arthur Valle from Chicago in the weeks prior to Dallas.  Failed assassination plans.  "The Chicago Plot" is available online as a download I believe and is worth the effort.  the below reports on him and the distancing from LHO - deny deny deny - leads me to my comment

What if they got him in Chicago and VALLEE is our OSWALD? The sheep-dipping can be made to look like it's been going on for as long as they want it to look and we'd be having these discussion about the mental ex-marine with an arsenal taking out JFK all on his own...

How does that play into your scenario ?  Ponder this... all the activities that Oswald engaged in had the dual purpose of establishing his bona fides in the circles he was traveling to gather the info he was gathering on left and right Cuban groups AND should it be necessary, these same bona fides can get turned on him as a Castro sympathizer - FPCC - who killed JFK in a plot organizer by Castro.. cue Alvarado...  let's go blow up Cuba. 

I think that may have been part of the reason the CIA planted him in Mexico when he was really doing FBI work in New Orleans and Dallas. 1. to shut the FBI up and 2. to make it look like he was trying to get to Cuba giving him even more bone fides with the Cubans in the know.

Cue the credits as the music grows in intensity... 

https://kevinjshay44.medium.com/documents-confirm-arrest-of-suspect-in-plot-to-kill-jfk-in-chicago-three-weeks-before-dallas-721c9ee8f52a. 

http://www.thechicagoplot.com/The Chicago Plot.pdf

(this too could have just been false flag to make it look like a number of Lone Nut marines were looking to kill JFK so, believe us when we tell you, Ozzie was just another Lone Nut with no connection to anyone especially the intelligence community).   

David

Factoring the other plots that didn't go forward is important in deconstructing the story.  I'm sure you have seen the excellent analysis by Paul Bleau published in Kennedys and King.  Abraham Bolden’s story awakened for me the importance of understanding the Chicago plot on November 2nd (that didn’t go forward) …  which turns out to be one of nine such plots laid out (in varying degrees of completion) in the 2nd half of 1963. This points to the use of a number of potential patsies, with a central emphasis upon the Fair Play for Cuba Committee (FPCC), as well as Secret Service complicity ... particularly the head of the Washington Secret Service, James Rowley who played a key role in keeping the Chicago plot as secret as possible.

The Chicago principals - Cubans at Willow Run Airport in Michigan – are persons of interest (Homer Echevarria, Paulino Martinez Sierra, Victor Espinosa Hernandez, Cardoso). Another person of interest was one Dan Groth, a suspicious Chicago “police officer’ involved with the arrest of Vallee. Groth was later part of the SWAT team that assassinated Black Panthers Fred Hampton and Mark Clark in 1969.  Groth received special training under the auspices of the FBI and CIA; he never had a regular police assignment, but worked counterintelligence, with an early focus on the Fair Play for Cuba Committee.  Connecting these dots convinces me that Abraham Bolden’s knowledge of the November 2nd Chicago plot – and the Secret Service’s coverup - was dangerous to the plotters and traitors that killed JFK.  Chicago Secret Service Chief Maurice Martineau (who was Bolden’s antagonist) controlled the messaging by requiring that all agent reports about the incident not be in writing but funneled by dictation through his assistant … thus eliminating all documentary trails.  Only Martineau and Chief James J. Rowley saw the top-secret Chicago report.  

In 1995 when the Assassinations Records Review Board (ARRB) ordered the copy released … the Secret Service destroyed it instead.  Martineau had told his staff on November 22nd what to believe: Lee Harvey Oswald was a lone gunman; there was no connection with Chicago. The only mention the Press made about the Chicago plot at the time was that Vallee like Oswald was another gun-toting malcontent.  Rowley was not dismissed after Dallas, but instead remained in his position until he retired in 1973.  Rowley was interviewed by Leodis Matthews of the House Select Committee on September 19th, 1978 … he played dumb, and lied about any knowledge of these plots. 

Matthews: Soon after Inspector Kelly arrived in Dallas and began his investigation, you received a communique through the mail, an office report, indicating that there had been a Chicago investigation of some Cubans? Rowley: I did not get that. Matthews: Mr. Rowley, let me just call your attention to JFK F-419, a document I believe that I have supplied you earlier. Have you had occasion to read through that report? Rowley: Yes, sir.

Matthews: That report indicates that you received it shortly after the assassination. It was entitled, "Possible Involvement by Quentin Pino Machado in a Conspiracy to Assassinate JFK." Did you review that report?  Rowley: I do not think I reviewed that report. I did not see my initials on it, so therefore I have to assume I did not review it.

Matthews: I also call your attention to JFK F-422, a document which you also have in your possession, entitled, "Chicago Investigation of Cuban Groups Alleged to Be Involved in the Assassination of President John F. Kennedy." Do you have any recollection of having received and reviewed that report? Rowley: I think my initials are on that report which would indicate that I did read it, but I have no immediate recollection.

Leodis Matthews: Do you have any recollection of having reviewed those documents? James J. Rowley: No, sir. You mean at that time, or recently? Matthews: At the time that the documents were generated.  Rowley: No.

The Committee basically covered up the Chicago plot, which was similar in logistics and principals to Dallas three weeks later (see Edwin Black’s 1975 essay).  Connect these dots and we have our perpetrators. 

Gene

[David Josephs]

2 hours ago, Gene Kelly said:

The Committee basically covered up the Chicago plot, which was similar in logistics and principals to Dallas three weeks later (see Edwin Black’s 1975 essay).  Connect these dots and we have our perpetrators. 

Gene

Thanks for the great summary backstory Gene...   Brings all the key player groups into the same place for the same reasons.. Rowley, thru Martineau..

..with Rowley's men facilitating Bethesda, after taking the body in Dallas, as well as keeping the FBI out of the loop on the earliest Bethesda charade ala Lipsey's wild ride.  CE399 comes out of Rowley's office per Todd, Zfilm goes to his office per Max P....  and disappears.

[James DiEugenio]

Thanks for that Gene.  Never saw that one before.

Based on that, I would have to agree with you:  the HSCA let Rowley cover up the Chicago Plot..

[John Deignan]

More coverage from Russell Brand. 
 

 

[Gene Kelly]

Jim/David

I follow your work with great interest ... you are two of the very best, in my eyes. I know that I'm lecturing at the Choirmasters here, but the JFK story is daunting and requires persistence and basic digging.  I've performed and analyzed quite a few investigations in my career as an engineer, more along technical lines and topics (not criminal), but nonetheless with human behavior aspects.  Separating the wheat from the chafe is not easy, particularly with the disinformation that's inserted. 

Certain facts/information just scream out as obvious clues ... things that resonate at a fundamental level for me. One of those is the idea that there was more than one location planned for the ambush, and more than one patsy to incriminate and misdirect attention.  Paul Bleau's analysis of the multiple plots laid out in 1963 - LA, Chicago, Miami, Tampa, even San Antonio - makes sense to me. So does the common denominator of the FPCC as a false flag.  And a friend recently pointed out the nature/details surrounding Abraham Bolden's story to me, which is revealing in many aspects.  The behavior of the Secret Service is very disappointing (Vince P. would not doubt agree) ... it's painful to fathom their complicity, which persisted even 30 years later when they destroyed records and kept what they had done secret from the ARRB. 

So, when I read your comment that we need to factor-in Chicago and Tampa into the analysis, it rang true to me. 

Gene

[James DiEugenio]

I agree that its important.

This is why we had Paul Bleau in the film talking about Chicago and Tampa.

Kennedy was not getting out of 1963 alive. No matter how many tries were needed.

Edited May 13, 2023 by James DiEugenio

[Anthony Thorne]

15 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Has the world gone upside down?  Look at this:

https://www.counterpunch.org/2023/05/12/should-the-left-give-rfk-jr-a-chance/?fbclid=IwAR1sa7H-alni1_Q0Z3GZvD-YnRZr7iFFN2YDGK8OlhcO2SNGociylFDaawo

Lovely article, captures some of my thoughts about RFK Jr as well.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, John Deignan said:

More coverage from Russell Brand. 
 

 

This is well worth a watch from yesterday. a new full interview between Brand & RFK Jr. 
 

https://rumble.com/v2nermq-russell-and-rfk-jr-fauci-cia-secrets-and-running-for-president-128-stay-fre.html#comment-228728124

[Benjamin Cole]

6 hours ago, Gene Kelly said:

Jim/David

I follow your work with great interest ... you are two of the very best, in my eyes. I know that I'm lecturing at the Choirmasters here, but the JFK story is daunting and requires persistence and basic digging.  I've performed and analyzed quite a few investigations in my career as an engineer, more along technical lines and topics (not criminal), but nonetheless with human behavior aspects.  Separating the wheat from the chafe is not easy, particularly with the disinformation that's inserted. 

Certain facts/information just scream out as obvious clues ... things that resonate at a fundamental level for me. One of those is the idea that there was more than one location planned for the ambush, and more than one patsy to incriminate and misdirect attention.  Paul Bleau's analysis of the multiple plots laid out in 1963 - LA, Chicago, Miami, Tampa, even San Antonio - makes sense to me. So does the common denominator of the FPCC as a false flag.  And a friend recently pointed out the nature/details surrounding Abraham Bolden's story to me, which is revealing in many aspects.  The behavior of the Secret Service is very disappointing (Vince P. would not doubt agree) ... it's painful to fathom their complicity, which persisted even 30 years later when they destroyed records and kept what they had done secret from the ARRB. 

So, when I read your comment that we need to factor-in Chicago and Tampa into the analysis, it rang true to me. 

Gene

Gene--

My only concern about multiple JFKA plots involving multiple personnel in several cities---too many mouths involved. 

I would guess that these local personnel had to be unwitting accomplices. 

I cannot imagine serious people plotting presidential assassinations involving many witting people across organizational lines and in many jurisdictions. 

In other words, trusted confederates in an assassination plot would be long-time associates, perhaps with bonds and ideology forged in war. Bay of Pigs survivors come to mind. 

For this reason, I think the Dallas Police Department was largely uninvolved in the JFKA. Maybe totally uninvolved. 

After the JFKA, getting on board and complicity was rife. No one wanted to be seen as sympathetic to a communist outcast who murdered the US President, or as not following orders. We know what FBI Chief Hoover wanted. 

Obviously, LBJ shut down a true investigation into the JFKA, perhaps induced by the supposed LHO-Kostikov link. 

I am not saying there were no other plots. The Chicago case is interesting.  But were the possible Cuban gunman connected to Vallee? Was Vallee in fact a lone nut? 

For me the Chicago case may be instructive. Two Cuban gunman show up in Chicago, with sniper rifles, and rent a place along the motorcade route. Two guys, that is it. That is their plan: Shoot the president as he passes. Vallee may be unconnected. 

In Dallas, the gunmen get lucky. CIA asset LHO can be manipulated. Perhaps the gunmen, likely CIA assets from the anti-Castro efforts, are tipped off about LHO, also an intel-state asset. 

The cover-up had to be, as all three---LHO and the two gunsels---were CIA assets, even if the operation was rogue (although perhaps a higher-up tipped the Cubans off about LHO)

Just my IMHO. 

 

 

 

[David Josephs]

9 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

For me the Chicago case may be instructive. Two Cuban gunman show up in Chicago, with sniper rifles, and rent a place along the motorcade route. Two guys, that is it. That is their plan: Shoot the president as he passes. Vallee may be unconnected.

Hi Ben,  There was a bit more than that my friend.. and you seem to be dismissing the other 4 locations prior.  Were you able to read "The Chicago Plot?"  I was sure that only 2 got caught, that 2 more got away... Edwin Black:

A few hours after that meeting adjourned, the phone rang in the Chicago office of the Secret Service. Agent Jay Lawrence Stocks was for a few hours the ranking agent, so he took the call. It was the Federal Bureau of Investigation calling from Washington. The FBI man warned Stocks of a serious and dangerous four-man conspiracy to assassinate Kennedy at the Army- Air Force game. The suspects were right during para-military fanatics armed with rifles and telescopic sights. The assassination itself would probably probably be attempted at one of the Northwest Expressway overpasses. This information came from an informant named "Lee".

A break came the next day, Thursday, October 31. A near north rooming house landlady telephoned the Chicago police with a tip. Four men were renting rooms, and in one of them, she observed four rifles with telescopic sights. In as much as she knew the president was coming to Chicago in two days, perhaps there was some threat here. Would the police look into it. The police immediately informed the Secret Service. Acting agent in charge of Maurice G. Martineau scooped up the message and made the connection. This was it.

A 24-hour surveillance was set up on the rooming house. Agent Jay L. Stocks spotted and followed two men fitting in the landlady's description, all the time maintaining radio contact with Martineau. <snip>

The two men were taken into custody (but not actually arrested or booked) in the very early Friday hours and brought to the Secret Service headquarters. There are no records that any weapons were found in their possession or back at the rooming house.

The story goes on to other aspects...  And if you can, Abe Bolden's book is worth a read, as well as the essay by Palamara, "Boring is Interesting".   Another from Boring:  https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10721#relPageId=13       @Steve Thomas you will notice the use of only "Harvey Lee Oswald" with Lee Harvey not being named as an alias.

Reproduced here from a copy I've had a long while.

BORING IS INTERESTING.  3/22/95 by Vincent M. Palamara

Without question, Secret Service agent Floyd M. Boring, the Assistant Special Agent in Charge of the White House Detail during the Kennedy Administration (SAIC Behn's direct assistant),bears a heavy burden in any analysis of JFK's mortal trip to the Lone Star state of  Texas in November of 1963, whether we view the President's murder as the act of a lone nut (Oswald) or as the result of a deadly  conspiracy.  Boring, who was not physically present in Texas with the President (that 'honor' went to a third stringer, ASAIC Roy H. Kellerman), had just recently been with the President in Florida (11/18/63), where JFK visited Tampa, Miami, and Palm Beach.  According to Agent Sam Kinney, SAIC Jerry Behn was finally able to take a vacation coinciding with the time period of JFK's Texas trip, which left ASAIC Boring able to oversee things from his home in Washington, D. C. (you don't always have to be physically present to be in charge of things, such as when the SAIC of the Protective Research Section, Robert Bouck, monitored  the 11/9/63 Joseph Milteer threats made in Miami from the Executive Office Building in Washington).  In other words, Floyd Boring was in charge of PLANNING the Texas trip (based off my two interviews with Mr. Boring, 9/22/93 and 3/4/94, as well as an important reference on page 558 of Jim Bishop's "The Day
Kennedy was Shot", not to mention several conversations with Sam Kinney)!

It was during the President's last trip before the Texas tour, in Tampa, Florida, where Boring took it upon himself to order the agents who were riding in protective positions on the rear of  JFK's limo to dismount and return to the follow-up car (despite 5 April 1964 reports to the contrary1, Sam Kinney, Dave Powers, Rufus Youngblood, Gerald Behn [author of  a report], Robert Bouck, John Norris, Abraham Bolden, Bob Lilly, Maurice Martineau, Marty Underwood, and, surprisingly, FLOYD BORING himself [author of a report and the primary sources for the other 4 reports; Clint Hill named him as the source  during his Warren Commission testimony]2 told me that JFK did not restrict the agents from doing anything!).  By blaming JFK for this action, Boring was able to keep the attention away from himself.  In addition, by his absence
from the Texas trip, Boring was kept out of the swirling controversies involving what should-and should not- have happened in regard to security matters (Behn was interviewed in Executive session of the HSCA , while Roy Kellerman, Chief James Rowley, and Inspector Kelley testified to both the Warren Commission and the HSCA) .WHY did Boring (and the others after him) blame JFK for this order? I was unable to get a definitive answer, but one thing is for certain: if John Ready and Clint Hill had ALREADY been stationed on the rear of the limo in Dallas during the shooting on Elm Street, these men would have been able to protect JFK from, at the very least, the fatal head shot that ultimately killed him(Greer and
Roberts inactions notwithstanding).

So, is that it?  Is that all Boring is responsible for (although quite important, nonetheless)?  Far from it:

1)     Gave Advance Agent Winston Lawson the Dallas assignment on 11/4/633, coinciding with Behn's---or SOMEONE's---call to Sorrels.
2)    Several days later, Lawson phoned Behn's office about the critical Trade Mart decision-Lawson wasn't sure he actually spoke to Behn.4  In light of the fact that Behn was dead set against going to the Trade Mart after seeing pictures of the catwalks, an excellent perch for snipers("We'll NEVER go there", he said5; along with Jerry Bruno and Ken O'Donnell, he wanted the Women's Building, which the Secret Service conceded was the better choice from a security standpoint6), and the fact that Kellerman did not become involved with any planning until four days later (11/8/63),it appears quite likely that Lawson spoke to Boring and received information which was conducive to some kind of approval for this site as a selected spot for JFK's speech (which, in turn, had a direct bearing on the potential route choices , the speed of the limousine, and the security of the building !
3)    Of the 3 known PRS checks of potential threats to the President in Texas, with the particular focus on Dallas, Boring was involved in at least 2, all three of which yielded NO information at all, which Roy Kellerman (to the WC7) and Abe Bolden (to me) both said was very unusual [Lawson inquired into the first check on 11/8/63-Boring told him there wouldn't be any information of any consequence until this date; Kellerman inquired into the second check on 11/10/63-he even said Boring was probably involved with this particular inquiry; Youngblood inquired into the third known check on the morning of 11/22/63 thru an UNNAMED agent8].  What makes this even more unbelievable is the following-
4)    As the agent in charge of Kennedy's trip to Florida, Boring had to have been much aware of the Joseph Milteer threats, as well as the anti-Castro Cuban Community's threats AND the organized crime threat, which, according to Sam Kinney, gave the agents a scare down there9.  A motorcade in Miami was deemed unwise (it was not canceled, it was nipped in the bud), as the Secret Service (including Bouck in Washington and the agents from the Miami field office)  believed via their knowledge of the aforementioned threats.

However, although Advance Agent David Grant came from Florida to assist in motorcade security in Dallas on the evening of 11/18/63 (along with Donald Lawton, Sam Kinney, Emory Roberts, and Bert deFreese later on10), and Boring was in charge of planning the Texas trip, the threat knowledge was NOT relayed to the advance team in Dallas!!!  Perhaps this is why Jerry Behn told me he was asked about the Florida trip in Executive Session of the HSCA-Behn wasn't on this trip either, and none of his testimony was published...
5)    David Grant was a key player in the planning of the motorcade route (which was CHANGED shortly after his arrival on 11/18/6311-prior to this date, only Main Street was mentioned, although, as Sam Kinney and Win Lawson told me, there were ALTERNATIVE routes12 Behn told me the route was indeed changed, yet another matter the HSCA brought up in its 'private' forum13), the "uniquely insecure" removal of  flanking  motorcycles(in direct contrast to the prior Texas motorcades in San Antonio, Houston, and Fort Worth  on 11/21-11/22/63!14), the deletion of  the Dallas police squad car15 (Chief Curry Wanted this car there), the reshuffling of the motorcade order ( with Lawson16), and the placement of the press, Dr. Burkley,  Godfrey  McHugh and Ted Clifton  to the REAR of the motorcade procession(Burkley protested, McHugh told CFTR  radio this was "UNUSUAL", and photographer Tom Dillard said this effectively  and uniquely brought them out of the picture, as the press usually rode on aflatbed truck directly in front of JFK's limo, not to mention the press buses which usually follows the follow-up car...17).  Grant(who was involved in the drinking incident18)  worked hand-in-glove with Boring in Florida, too...
6)    On 11/21/63, Dallas Sheriff Bill Decker agreed to offer Dallas Agent Forrest Sorrels his "full support" to motorcade security for 11/22/63 (as verified in Sorrel's report published in the WC volumes19). Yet, on the morning of 11/22/63, according to Roger Craig (and as verified in several films/photos), Decker had his men standing idle on the corner of Main and Houston as "spectators" and nothing more.20 According to author/ researcher Gary Shaw21 and Dr. Grant Leitma 22 (a Maryland researcher) these unusual standdown orders came TO Decker via a call from a still unknown source in the nation’s capital (recall that Chief Curry stated in his book that the security arrangements were directed from Washington 23)!  If true, it is quite possible that Mr. Boring, stationed in Washington and  in charge of planning the Texas trip, gave these orders...

Boring has a rich background- he was President Truman's temporary Chauffeur (Bill Greer drove Truman, as well) and, on 11/1/50, while Truman was Sleeping in Blair House during the renovation of the White House, two Puerto Rican Nationalists began their assassination attempt with guns ablaze while Boring was TEMPORARILY in charge of the White House Detail for that day (see Baughman's book and 
McCullough's book on Truman) and guarding Blair House (with agents Vincent Mroz and several White House policeman).As it turned out, Boring fired the only official bullets ever fired by a Secret Service agent in their long history of protecting the nation's presidents24-he killed one of them, Grisselia Torreselo, while the other, Oscar Collazo, was wounded but survived (Sam Kinney later guarded him in the hospital; Collazo, who was later inexplicably pardoned by Jimmy Carter, passed away in 199425)!

Interestingly, another agent, Stu Stout, was guarding Truman inside Blair House, fending off the many shouts of angry housekeepers with his Thompson submachine gun, refusing to budge from his assigned position in the chance that the assassins made their way passed Boring (Stout was later commended by Secret Service officials for his action, the housekeepers notwithstanding26). Ironically, on 11/22/63, 
while President Kennedy was the victim of a successful assassination, Stout assumed the very same position-safely away inside a building (the Trade Mart).Kinney and Boring told me that  Stout died not long after 11/22/63, the first agent to die after the assassination (cause unknown...they wouldn't say).I guess it is true that history does repeat itself from time to time...

Boring, whose code name was Deacon (later used by Jimmy Carter!27), served in the Secret Service from FDR's administration until 1967, when he retired as an Inspector during the Johnson administration (although Youngblood's book [ghost-written] states that both Boring and Behn became Inspectors -a highly coveted position of power-after the assassination, Behn told me emphatically that he did NOT become an Inspector, although Floyd Boring did(Behn considered his January 1965 transfer out of the
White House Detail a "demotion", as he went with another former SAIC, Stu Knight [from LBJ's detail],to a division known as "Special Investigations", which was a non-protective function, whose goal was to investigate violations of the Gold Act, among others28).In fact, it is ironic that Boring appears to have been the only agent in a supervisory capacity in JFK's DETAIL to have benefited after the murder(Rowley took much heat, before, during, and after both his Warren Commission and HSCA testimony, and was later replaced as Chief in 1972 during the Watergate crisis by none other than Stu Knight;  Behn retired in 1967 and went to the Post Office Department [his boss was JFK Aide  Bill Hartigan, the same man who would later interview Behn for an extremely tight-lipped JFK Library Oral History in 1976]; Roy Kellerman's power  was usurped at Parkland Hospital by his deputy, Emory Roberts, and he would later become an Assistant Administrator in charge of payroll and the like-a desk job[he retired in 1968])! 

Although ASAIC of  V.P. Detail Rufus Youngblood , who  was to become the SAIC of this particular detail on 11/25/63, advancing ahead of the equally-absent  Stu Knight,  went on to become one of the ASAIC's of LBJ"s  Presidential Detail (due to LBJ's call to Rowley), he was, of course, already an "LBJ man", so to speak (Youngblood  became one of the ASAIC's of the White House Detail immediately after the murder[Behn, Boring, and Kellerman temporarily kept there nominal positions] until January 1965, when Youngblood became THE SAIC of the White House Detail[we already know what happened to Behn and Knight] with Kellerman now HIS deputy along with a new deputy ASAIC, Thomas "Lem" Johns, another Dealey Plaza veteran29).According to Sam Kinney, Emory Roberts became the Appointment Secretary to LBJ, and Sam assisted Emory(Emory died of an alleged heart attack in the late 1960's, the same time an unknown agent took his own life with a handgun, according to Agent Marty Venker30.  Interestingly, Mrs. Juanita Roberts, LBJ's Chief private secretary, MAY have been Emory's wife, due to the circumstances of his later position-I'll try to find out...).  Nevertheless, it was Boring who immediately advanced the highest and the fastest after the tragedy (Knight became the Chief 9 years later, while Agent Clint Hill was SAIC of the White House Detail during the Ford administration, some 10-12 years later).

Boring, now 80 years old and a partial stroke victim, still has an agile mind; it is a crime that he was not interviewed by either the Warren Commission or the HSCA-of the book's he was interviewed in (former Chief Baughman's "Secret Service Chief" and McCullough's "Truman"), there is Nothing but fodder for Truman historians.  The only Kennedy book he is quoted in, Manchester's "The Death of a President"31, is a true enigma-Boring was NOT interviewed for this book(see the book's endnotes; also, Boring confirmed this to me on two occasions)!Alas, the story is not over just yet:  in regard to ANOTHER author we have come across who is known for his errors and ALLEGED interviews, Gerald Posner, during the course of my research, I attempted to find out if what Posner claims at the end of his book was true-that, via Hamilton Brown, the Executive Secretary of the Former Agents of the Secret Service(formerly on Joseph Kennedy's Detail on 11/22/63, first name actually "Percy"), Posner was able to locate and speak with several former agents32. Since none were credited in the text or his endnotes, I began to get suspicious;
this was heightened when Ann Eisele of the Washington Post called me in November 1993 and wanted to get in touch with Brown(along with  some Italian and English journalists, I was contacted a lot that fall in regards to the Secret Service).  I gave her the number after I received confirmation that a) she was who 
she said she was and b) that she would NOT let Brown know I gave her the number (as readers may be aware, Brown told me angrily to "cease and desist from contacting anymore of my associates", and I did not want to incur his wrath again!33).Even under these circumstances, with her impeccable credentials and no causes for alarm, Brown would not communicate with her or give her ANY information on how to
get in touch with former agents (although that was his job, and she was working with Newsweek and CBS for an Oswald-did-it piece for TV and print)!So, I thought-why the hell would Brown help this relative nobody named Gerald Posner out unless... hmmm....unless, just as Posner received exclusive access to Nosenko from the CIA in exchange for a book to their "liking", Brown was somehow assured by Posner
-and Random House- of the same thing.

However, there is one little wrinkle in this story-there was ONE agent who I was able to confirm who WAS contacted by Posner, and it was THIS agent that referred him to Brown for reason or reasons unclear:  Floyd M. Boring34.

Boring is interesting.

3/22/95 by Vincent M. Palamara

1 18H803-809

2 2H136-137

3 4H336

4 4H337

5 " The Lone Star- the Life of John Connally" by James Reston, Jr. (New York: Harper and Row, 1989) p. 258; 11HSCA 516; HSCA Report 12/13/77-interview with Jerry Bruno

6 21H546; 11HSCA516

7 2H107-108; 11HSCA523

8 "The Third Alternative-Survivor's Guilt: the Secret Service and the JFK Murder" by Vince Palamara (self-published,1994) pp. 11,50

9 author's interview with Sam Kinney 4/15/94

10 WR421; 18H789; 17H601; author's interviews with Winston Lawson and Sam Kinney

11 author's interview with Gerald Behn 9/27/92

12 see also 4H326

13 author's interview with Gerald Behn 9/27/92

14 11HSCA527-529; NBC video of Houston motorcade 11/21/63

15 11HSCA530

16 25H786; author's interview with Winston Lawson 9/27/92; "The Third Alternative", pp18,49

17"The Third Alternative", p.49; Tom Dillard on C-SPAN 11/22/93

18 18H684

19 21H547

20 "Two Men in Dallas" video; Hughes film

21 author's phone conversation with Gary Shaw 8/23/93

22 letter to author 12/14/93

23 "JFK Assassination File" by Jesse Curry, p. 9

24author's interviews with Floyd Boring, 9/22/93 and 3/4/94

25 author's interview with Sam Kinney 3/5/94; "Confessions of an Ex-Secret Service Agent" by George Rush (New York: Pocket Books, 1988), p. 133

26 "The Secret Service Story" by Michael Dorman (New York: Dell, 1967), P.69

27 "The Death of a President" by William Manchester (New York: Harper and Row, 1988 Edition), p. xxi; "Air Force One: The Planes and the Presidents-Flight II" video (1991)

28 author's interview with Rufus Youngblood 2/8/94; author's interview withStu Knight 10/22/92

29 author's interviews with Rufus Youngblood, 10/22/92 and 2/8/94

30 "Confessions of an Ex-Secret Service Agent", pp. 216-217

31 "The Death of a President", p. 37; the author contacted Manchester about This dramatic contradiction in August of 1993, but he refused to show me his notes or any other means with which to back up his published claim

32 "Case Closed" by Gerald Posner (New York: Random House, 1993), p. 503

33 author's interview with Hamilton Brown 9/30/92 (former agents' Bob Lilly and Sam Kinney were offended at Brown's conduct, but the Secret Service HAS traditionally advised against ANY interviews other than those channeled through the "official" Public Affairs Department)

34 Boring told me that he did not tell Posner anything other than Brown's phone number, and he was unsure if Posner even followed through with the call (it is very interesting that Mr. Posner picked up on Boring's importance to the assassination).

[Benjamin Cole]

1 hour ago, David Josephs said:

Hi Ben,  There was a bit more than that my friend.. and you seem to be dismissing the other 4 locations prior.  Were you able to read "The Chicago Plot?"  I was sure that only 2 got caught, that 2 more got away... Edwin Black:

A few hours after that meeting adjourned, the phone rang in the Chicago office of the Secret Service. Agent Jay Lawrence Stocks was for a few hours the ranking agent, so he took the call. It was the Federal Bureau of Investigation calling from Washington. The FBI man warned Stocks of a serious and dangerous four-man conspiracy to assassinate Kennedy at the Army- Air Force game. The suspects were right during para-military fanatics armed with rifles and telescopic sights. The assassination itself would probably probably be attempted at one of the Northwest Expressway overpasses. This information came from an informant named "Lee".

A break came the next day, Thursday, October 31. A near north rooming house landlady telephoned the Chicago police with a tip. Four men were renting rooms, and in one of them, she observed four rifles with telescopic sights. In as much as she knew the president was coming to Chicago in two days, perhaps there was some threat here. Would the police look into it. The police immediately informed the Secret Service. Acting agent in charge of Maurice G. Martineau scooped up the message and made the connection. This was it.

A 24-hour surveillance was set up on the rooming house. Agent Jay L. Stocks spotted and followed two men fitting in the landlady's description, all the time maintaining radio contact with Martineau. <snip>

The two men were taken into custody (but not actually arrested or booked) in the very early Friday hours and brought to the Secret Service headquarters. There are no records that any weapons were found in their possession or back at the rooming house.

The story goes on to other aspects...  And if you can, Abe Bolden's book is worth a read, as well as the essay by Palamara, "Boring is Interesting".   Another from Boring:  https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10721#relPageId=13       @Steve Thomas you will notice the use of only "Harvey Lee Oswald" with Lee Harvey not being named as an alias.

Reproduced here from a copy I've had a long while.

BORING IS INTERESTING.  3/22/95 by Vincent M. Palamara

Without question, Secret Service agent Floyd M. Boring, the Assistant Special Agent in Charge of the White House Detail during the Kennedy Administration (SAIC Behn's direct assistant),bears a heavy burden in any analysis of JFK's mortal trip to the Lone Star state of  Texas in November of 1963, whether we view the President's murder as the act of a lone nut (Oswald) or as the result of a deadly  conspiracy.  Boring, who was not physically present in Texas with the President (that 'honor' went to a third stringer, ASAIC Roy H. Kellerman), had just recently been with the President in Florida (11/18/63), where JFK visited Tampa, Miami, and Palm Beach.  According to Agent Sam Kinney, SAIC Jerry Behn was finally able to take a vacation coinciding with the time period of JFK's Texas trip, which left ASAIC Boring able to oversee things from his home in Washington, D. C. (you don't always have to be physically present to be in charge of things, such as when the SAIC of the Protective Research Section, Robert Bouck, monitored  the 11/9/63 Joseph Milteer threats made in Miami from the Executive Office Building in Washington).  In other words, Floyd Boring was in charge of PLANNING the Texas trip (based off my two interviews with Mr. Boring, 9/22/93 and 3/4/94, as well as an important reference on page 558 of Jim Bishop's "The Day
Kennedy was Shot", not to mention several conversations with Sam Kinney)!

It was during the President's last trip before the Texas tour, in Tampa, Florida, where Boring took it upon himself to order the agents who were riding in protective positions on the rear of  JFK's limo to dismount and return to the follow-up car (despite 5 April 1964 reports to the contrary1, Sam Kinney, Dave Powers, Rufus Youngblood, Gerald Behn [author of  a report], Robert Bouck, John Norris, Abraham Bolden, Bob Lilly, Maurice Martineau, Marty Underwood, and, surprisingly, FLOYD BORING himself [author of a report and the primary sources for the other 4 reports; Clint Hill named him as the source  during his Warren Commission testimony]2 told me that JFK did not restrict the agents from doing anything!).  By blaming JFK for this action, Boring was able to keep the attention away from himself.  In addition, by his absence
from the Texas trip, Boring was kept out of the swirling controversies involving what should-and should not- have happened in regard to security matters (Behn was interviewed in Executive session of the HSCA , while Roy Kellerman, Chief James Rowley, and Inspector Kelley testified to both the Warren Commission and the HSCA) .WHY did Boring (and the others after him) blame JFK for this order? I was unable to get a definitive answer, but one thing is for certain: if John Ready and Clint Hill had ALREADY been stationed on the rear of the limo in Dallas during the shooting on Elm Street, these men would have been able to protect JFK from, at the very least, the fatal head shot that ultimately killed him(Greer and
Roberts inactions notwithstanding).

So, is that it?  Is that all Boring is responsible for (although quite important, nonetheless)?  Far from it:

1)     Gave Advance Agent Winston Lawson the Dallas assignment on 11/4/633, coinciding with Behn's---or SOMEONE's---call to Sorrels.
2)    Several days later, Lawson phoned Behn's office about the critical Trade Mart decision-Lawson wasn't sure he actually spoke to Behn.4  In light of the fact that Behn was dead set against going to the Trade Mart after seeing pictures of the catwalks, an excellent perch for snipers("We'll NEVER go there", he said5; along with Jerry Bruno and Ken O'Donnell, he wanted the Women's Building, which the Secret Service conceded was the better choice from a security standpoint6), and the fact that Kellerman did not become involved with any planning until four days later (11/8/63),it appears quite likely that Lawson spoke to Boring and received information which was conducive to some kind of approval for this site as a selected spot for JFK's speech (which, in turn, had a direct bearing on the potential route choices , the speed of the limousine, and the security of the building !
3)    Of the 3 known PRS checks of potential threats to the President in Texas, with the particular focus on Dallas, Boring was involved in at least 2, all three of which yielded NO information at all, which Roy Kellerman (to the WC7) and Abe Bolden (to me) both said was very unusual [Lawson inquired into the first check on 11/8/63-Boring told him there wouldn't be any information of any consequence until this date; Kellerman inquired into the second check on 11/10/63-he even said Boring was probably involved with this particular inquiry; Youngblood inquired into the third known check on the morning of 11/22/63 thru an UNNAMED agent8].  What makes this even more unbelievable is the following-
4)    As the agent in charge of Kennedy's trip to Florida, Boring had to have been much aware of the Joseph Milteer threats, as well as the anti-Castro Cuban Community's threats AND the organized crime threat, which, according to Sam Kinney, gave the agents a scare down there9.  A motorcade in Miami was deemed unwise (it was not canceled, it was nipped in the bud), as the Secret Service (including Bouck in Washington and the agents from the Miami field office)  believed via their knowledge of the aforementioned threats.

However, although Advance Agent David Grant came from Florida to assist in motorcade security in Dallas on the evening of 11/18/63 (along with Donald Lawton, Sam Kinney, Emory Roberts, and Bert deFreese later on10), and Boring was in charge of planning the Texas trip, the threat knowledge was NOT relayed to the advance team in Dallas!!!  Perhaps this is why Jerry Behn told me he was asked about the Florida trip in Executive Session of the HSCA-Behn wasn't on this trip either, and none of his testimony was published...
5)    David Grant was a key player in the planning of the motorcade route (which was CHANGED shortly after his arrival on 11/18/6311-prior to this date, only Main Street was mentioned, although, as Sam Kinney and Win Lawson told me, there were ALTERNATIVE routes12 Behn told me the route was indeed changed, yet another matter the HSCA brought up in its 'private' forum13), the "uniquely insecure" removal of  flanking  motorcycles(in direct contrast to the prior Texas motorcades in San Antonio, Houston, and Fort Worth  on 11/21-11/22/63!14), the deletion of  the Dallas police squad car15 (Chief Curry Wanted this car there), the reshuffling of the motorcade order ( with Lawson16), and the placement of the press, Dr. Burkley,  Godfrey  McHugh and Ted Clifton  to the REAR of the motorcade procession(Burkley protested, McHugh told CFTR  radio this was "UNUSUAL", and photographer Tom Dillard said this effectively  and uniquely brought them out of the picture, as the press usually rode on aflatbed truck directly in front of JFK's limo, not to mention the press buses which usually follows the follow-up car...17).  Grant(who was involved in the drinking incident18)  worked hand-in-glove with Boring in Florida, too...
6)    On 11/21/63, Dallas Sheriff Bill Decker agreed to offer Dallas Agent Forrest Sorrels his "full support" to motorcade security for 11/22/63 (as verified in Sorrel's report published in the WC volumes19). Yet, on the morning of 11/22/63, according to Roger Craig (and as verified in several films/photos), Decker had his men standing idle on the corner of Main and Houston as "spectators" and nothing more.20 According to author/ researcher Gary Shaw21 and Dr. Grant Leitma 22 (a Maryland researcher) these unusual standdown orders came TO Decker via a call from a still unknown source in the nation’s capital (recall that Chief Curry stated in his book that the security arrangements were directed from Washington 23)!  If true, it is quite possible that Mr. Boring, stationed in Washington and  in charge of planning the Texas trip, gave these orders...

Boring has a rich background- he was President Truman's temporary Chauffeur (Bill Greer drove Truman, as well) and, on 11/1/50, while Truman was Sleeping in Blair House during the renovation of the White House, two Puerto Rican Nationalists began their assassination attempt with guns ablaze while Boring was TEMPORARILY in charge of the White House Detail for that day (see Baughman's book and 
McCullough's book on Truman) and guarding Blair House (with agents Vincent Mroz and several White House policeman).As it turned out, Boring fired the only official bullets ever fired by a Secret Service agent in their long history of protecting the nation's presidents24-he killed one of them, Grisselia Torreselo, while the other, Oscar Collazo, was wounded but survived (Sam Kinney later guarded him in the hospital; Collazo, who was later inexplicably pardoned by Jimmy Carter, passed away in 199425)!

Interestingly, another agent, Stu Stout, was guarding Truman inside Blair House, fending off the many shouts of angry housekeepers with his Thompson submachine gun, refusing to budge from his assigned position in the chance that the assassins made their way passed Boring (Stout was later commended by Secret Service officials for his action, the housekeepers notwithstanding26). Ironically, on 11/22/63, 
while President Kennedy was the victim of a successful assassination, Stout assumed the very same position-safely away inside a building (the Trade Mart).Kinney and Boring told me that  Stout died not long after 11/22/63, the first agent to die after the assassination (cause unknown...they wouldn't say).I guess it is true that history does repeat itself from time to time...

Boring, whose code name was Deacon (later used by Jimmy Carter!27), served in the Secret Service from FDR's administration until 1967, when he retired as an Inspector during the Johnson administration (although Youngblood's book [ghost-written] states that both Boring and Behn became Inspectors -a highly coveted position of power-after the assassination, Behn told me emphatically that he did NOT become an Inspector, although Floyd Boring did(Behn considered his January 1965 transfer out of the
White House Detail a "demotion", as he went with another former SAIC, Stu Knight [from LBJ's detail],to a division known as "Special Investigations", which was a non-protective function, whose goal was to investigate violations of the Gold Act, among others28).In fact, it is ironic that Boring appears to have been the only agent in a supervisory capacity in JFK's DETAIL to have benefited after the murder(Rowley took much heat, before, during, and after both his Warren Commission and HSCA testimony, and was later replaced as Chief in 1972 during the Watergate crisis by none other than Stu Knight;  Behn retired in 1967 and went to the Post Office Department [his boss was JFK Aide  Bill Hartigan, the same man who would later interview Behn for an extremely tight-lipped JFK Library Oral History in 1976]; Roy Kellerman's power  was usurped at Parkland Hospital by his deputy, Emory Roberts, and he would later become an Assistant Administrator in charge of payroll and the like-a desk job[he retired in 1968])! 

Although ASAIC of  V.P. Detail Rufus Youngblood , who  was to become the SAIC of this particular detail on 11/25/63, advancing ahead of the equally-absent  Stu Knight,  went on to become one of the ASAIC's of LBJ"s  Presidential Detail (due to LBJ's call to Rowley), he was, of course, already an "LBJ man", so to speak (Youngblood  became one of the ASAIC's of the White House Detail immediately after the murder[Behn, Boring, and Kellerman temporarily kept there nominal positions] until January 1965, when Youngblood became THE SAIC of the White House Detail[we already know what happened to Behn and Knight] with Kellerman now HIS deputy along with a new deputy ASAIC, Thomas "Lem" Johns, another Dealey Plaza veteran29).According to Sam Kinney, Emory Roberts became the Appointment Secretary to LBJ, and Sam assisted Emory(Emory died of an alleged heart attack in the late 1960's, the same time an unknown agent took his own life with a handgun, according to Agent Marty Venker30.  Interestingly, Mrs. Juanita Roberts, LBJ's Chief private secretary, MAY have been Emory's wife, due to the circumstances of his later position-I'll try to find out...).  Nevertheless, it was Boring who immediately advanced the highest and the fastest after the tragedy (Knight became the Chief 9 years later, while Agent Clint Hill was SAIC of the White House Detail during the Ford administration, some 10-12 years later).

Boring, now 80 years old and a partial stroke victim, still has an agile mind; it is a crime that he was not interviewed by either the Warren Commission or the HSCA-of the book's he was interviewed in (former Chief Baughman's "Secret Service Chief" and McCullough's "Truman"), there is Nothing but fodder for Truman historians.  The only Kennedy book he is quoted in, Manchester's "The Death of a President"31, is a true enigma-Boring was NOT interviewed for this book(see the book's endnotes; also, Boring confirmed this to me on two occasions)!Alas, the story is not over just yet:  in regard to ANOTHER author we have come across who is known for his errors and ALLEGED interviews, Gerald Posner, during the course of my research, I attempted to find out if what Posner claims at the end of his book was true-that, via Hamilton Brown, the Executive Secretary of the Former Agents of the Secret Service(formerly on Joseph Kennedy's Detail on 11/22/63, first name actually "Percy"), Posner was able to locate and speak with several former agents32. Since none were credited in the text or his endnotes, I began to get suspicious;
this was heightened when Ann Eisele of the Washington Post called me in November 1993 and wanted to get in touch with Brown(along with  some Italian and English journalists, I was contacted a lot that fall in regards to the Secret Service).  I gave her the number after I received confirmation that a) she was who 
she said she was and b) that she would NOT let Brown know I gave her the number (as readers may be aware, Brown told me angrily to "cease and desist from contacting anymore of my associates", and I did not want to incur his wrath again!33).Even under these circumstances, with her impeccable credentials and no causes for alarm, Brown would not communicate with her or give her ANY information on how to
get in touch with former agents (although that was his job, and she was working with Newsweek and CBS for an Oswald-did-it piece for TV and print)!So, I thought-why the hell would Brown help this relative nobody named Gerald Posner out unless... hmmm....unless, just as Posner received exclusive access to Nosenko from the CIA in exchange for a book to their "liking", Brown was somehow assured by Posner
-and Random House- of the same thing.

However, there is one little wrinkle in this story-there was ONE agent who I was able to confirm who WAS contacted by Posner, and it was THIS agent that referred him to Brown for reason or reasons unclear:  Floyd M. Boring34.

Boring is interesting.

3/22/95 by Vincent M. Palamara

1 18H803-809

2 2H136-137

3 4H336

4 4H337

5 " The Lone Star- the Life of John Connally" by James Reston, Jr. (New York: Harper and Row, 1989) p. 258; 11HSCA 516; HSCA Report 12/13/77-interview with Jerry Bruno

6 21H546; 11HSCA516

7 2H107-108; 11HSCA523

8 "The Third Alternative-Survivor's Guilt: the Secret Service and the JFK Murder" by Vince Palamara (self-published,1994) pp. 11,50

9 author's interview with Sam Kinney 4/15/94

10 WR421; 18H789; 17H601; author's interviews with Winston Lawson and Sam Kinney

11 author's interview with Gerald Behn 9/27/92

12 see also 4H326

13 author's interview with Gerald Behn 9/27/92

14 11HSCA527-529; NBC video of Houston motorcade 11/21/63

15 11HSCA530

16 25H786; author's interview with Winston Lawson 9/27/92; "The Third Alternative", pp18,49

17"The Third Alternative", p.49; Tom Dillard on C-SPAN 11/22/93

18 18H684

19 21H547

20 "Two Men in Dallas" video; Hughes film

21 author's phone conversation with Gary Shaw 8/23/93

22 letter to author 12/14/93

23 "JFK Assassination File" by Jesse Curry, p. 9

24author's interviews with Floyd Boring, 9/22/93 and 3/4/94

25 author's interview with Sam Kinney 3/5/94; "Confessions of an Ex-Secret Service Agent" by George Rush (New York: Pocket Books, 1988), p. 133

26 "The Secret Service Story" by Michael Dorman (New York: Dell, 1967), P.69

27 "The Death of a President" by William Manchester (New York: Harper and Row, 1988 Edition), p. xxi; "Air Force One: The Planes and the Presidents-Flight II" video (1991)

28 author's interview with Rufus Youngblood 2/8/94; author's interview withStu Knight 10/22/92

29 author's interviews with Rufus Youngblood, 10/22/92 and 2/8/94

30 "Confessions of an Ex-Secret Service Agent", pp. 216-217

31 "The Death of a President", p. 37; the author contacted Manchester about This dramatic contradiction in August of 1993, but he refused to show me his notes or any other means with which to back up his published claim

32 "Case Closed" by Gerald Posner (New York: Random House, 1993), p. 503

33 author's interview with Hamilton Brown 9/30/92 (former agents' Bob Lilly and Sam Kinney were offended at Brown's conduct, but the Secret Service HAS traditionally advised against ANY interviews other than those channeled through the "official" Public Affairs Department)

34 Boring told me that he did not tell Posner anything other than Brown's phone number, and he was unsure if Posner even followed through with the call (it is very interesting that Mr. Posner picked up on Boring's importance to the assassination).

1. Yes, it does appear there were reports of four men with rifles in Chicago. Not sure about their connection to Vallee. Two arrested? Why were they released? No rifles ever seized or officially seen.  

2. The strange "Harvey Lee Oswald" story in DC in September---who knows? Of course, as you know, after 11/22/63 there were many, many people who said they saw LHO before the JFKA---even in states he never visited.  Why the odd use of the Harvey Lee Oswald name? I do not know.  Is there a reason that eludes me? 

3. Vincent Palamara is an excellent researcher. 

Still, I find it hard to credit JFKA scenarios involving witting pre-JFKA complicity of many people across organizational lines and even territorial and government jurisdictions. 

The two Puerto Rican nationalists who shot at Truman in 1950...was there a large government-affiliated plot behind them? (BTW, in 1954 four PR nationalists shot up the US Congress floor, seriously injuring several, and were more or less sentenced to life in prison. Curiously, Jimmy Carter also commuted their sentences in 1978 and 1979.)

As an aside, some researchers go to extraordinary efforts to exonerate LHO entirely even of an unwitting role in the JFKA. There is a blurry picture of someone on some steps, so that must be LHO on the TSBD first floor landing during the JFKA. That is fine, everyone is entitled to their opinion, and there is value to testing hypotheses.

But then should we also make the same effort to exonerate others who are implicated on the basis of iffy evidence? 

Should we also carefully and scrupulously review evidence against the Secret Service, the FBI and the CIA, and put on our "defense attorney" hat? 

Unfortunately, so much evidence is missing, destroyed, or never existed.

I can't tell if the four guys in Chicago were sportsmen headed to deer-hunting season or wanna-be assassins. When an FBI report says something that fits our narratives, we seize on it as deeply informative. If not, then not. What real evidence do we have that the four guys in Chicago was assassins? If they were assassins, what evidence do we have they were connected to other in federal and local governments? 

We have one witness who saw the four rifles---the landlady. At this late date, who knows about the landlady. Was she a very stable person? Did she call the cops frequently on imagined criminals? 

As for Boring, I dunno. 

 

 

 

[Gene Kelly]

20 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Thanks for that Gene.  Never saw that one before.

Based on that, I would have to agree with you:  the HSCA let Rowley cover up the Chicago Plot..

Jim

While the HSCA concluded that the Secret Service was deficient in the performance of its duties in Dallas, they rejected Bolden's story.  Abraham Bolden spoke with HSCA investigators in January 1968, and told them that sometime before November 2, 1963, the FBI sent a Teletype message to the Chicago Secret Service office stating that there would be an attempt on Kennedy’s life in Chicago on November 2 by a four-man hit team using high-powered rifles (quite interesting that the FBI informant was named “Lee”). The HSCA interviewed agent Ed Tucker (who arrested Valee) and other agents who were working in the Chicago office at that time, and none of them could recall any such thing. The HSCA could not document that such a case existed and found that Bolden’s story was of “questionable authenticity.’” Nonetheless, Bolden recalled how the Chicago agents bungled surveillance of the two suspected Cuban hit men, who disappeared and were never identified.  One of the suspects, Homer Echeverria, was later pushed out of a plane over the Caribbean.

Gene

[Gene Kelly]

13 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Gene--

My only concern about multiple JFKA plots involving multiple personnel in several cities---too many mouths involved. 

I would guess that these local personnel had to be unwitting accomplices. 

I cannot imagine serious people plotting presidential assassinations involving many witting people across organizational lines and in many jurisdictions. 

In other words, trusted confederates in an assassination plot would be long-time associates, perhaps with bonds and ideology forged in war. Bay of Pigs survivors come to mind. 

For this reason, I think the Dallas Police Department was largely uninvolved in the JFKA. Maybe totally uninvolved. 

After the JFKA, getting on board and complicity was rife. No one wanted to be seen as sympathetic to a communist outcast who murdered the US President, or as not following orders. We know what FBI Chief Hoover wanted. 

Obviously, LBJ shut down a true investigation into the JFKA, perhaps induced by the supposed LHO-Kostikov link. 

I am not saying there were no other plots. The Chicago case is interesting.  But were the possible Cuban gunman connected to Vallee? Was Vallee in fact a lone nut? 

For me the Chicago case may be instructive. Two Cuban gunman show up in Chicago, with sniper rifles, and rent a place along the motorcade route. Two guys, that is it. That is their plan: Shoot the president as he passes. Vallee may be unconnected. 

In Dallas, the gunmen get lucky. CIA asset LHO can be manipulated. Perhaps the gunmen, likely CIA assets from the anti-Castro efforts, are tipped off about LHO, also an intel-state asset. 

The cover-up had to be, as all three---LHO and the two gunsels---were CIA assets, even if the operation was rogue (although perhaps a higher-up tipped the Cubans off about LHO)

Just my IMHO. 

 

 

 

Ben

I would recommend reading the article written by Edwin Black in November 1975, "The Plot to kill JFK in Chicago Nov. 2,1963”.  As David has pointed out, there is a lot more to the story.  Here is a link:

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg Subject Index Files/V Disk/Vallee Thomas Arthur/Item 05.pdf 

Gene