The three tramps mystery

[Denis Morissette]

Frenchie? Those pictures were sent to me by John Woods, but he did not specify it is a tramp. I think that is Frenchie. The hairline does not match in both color pictures.

https://ibb.co/fq57ZxD

Edited July 17, 2023 by Denis Morissette

[Leslie Sharp]

7 hours ago, Paul Cummings said:

Yet, you push back because it doesn't fit your narrative of your book. That's the issue.

Paul, that's completely off base. If we can determined the role the tramps played, and who played them, it leads up the food chain.  Otherwise, it seems to me the tramps remain an isolated incident that some, including Ms. Gibson have spent an inordinate amout of time identifying by name, but to what avail?  

[David Josephs]

22 minutes ago, Leslie Sharp said:

Paul, that's completely off base. If we can determined the role the tramps played, and who played them, it leads up the food chain.  Otherwise, it seems to me the tramps remain an isolated incident that some, including Ms. Gibson have spent an inordinate amout of time identifying by name, but to what avail?  

@Steve Thomas @Keyvan Shahrdar

Because we are finding WCD #'s 2094 and 2312 which are up to 800 #'s more than the last WCD # 1555 when BARD is asked to look into specific people and when the database is accessed directly via API.

2312 shows an excerpt from a SPECTER-ABRAMS Q&A where Abrams states this whereas the Chambers arrest report and Chambers' FBI interview states they were asleep in a boxcar when police woke them up and took them in.

My concern is not that BARD is broken, but that it is finding evidence of 100's  of WCD #'s we've never seen.

Abrams: Well, I was standing on Elm Street when the shots were fired. I saw two men running towards the train tracks after the shots were fired.

2094 is McCloy asking Prouty questions where Prouty says:

Prouty: Sure. The Office of Special Operations was a secret unit within the Air Force that was responsible for carrying out covert operations. We were involved in a lot of different things, including assassinations.

McCloy: Assassinations?

Prouty: Yes. We were involved in the assassination of Patrice Lumumba in the Congo, for example.

 

It would make sense to hide both of these as they would cause real problems - yet there are many, many items in the WCD which conflict with the WCR conclusions in broad daylight...

 

[Leslie Sharp]

2 minutes ago, David Josephs said:

@Steve Thomas @Keyvan Shahrdar

Because we are finding WCD #'s 2094 and 2312 which are up to 800 #'s more than the last WCD # 1555 when BARD is asked to look into specific people and when the database is accessed directly via API.

2312 shows an excerpt from a SPECTER-ABRAMS Q&A where Abrams states this whereas the Chambers arrest report and Chambers' FBI interview states they were asleep in a boxcar when police woke them up and took them in.

My concern is not that BARD is broken, but that it is finding evidence of 100's  of WCD #'s we've never seen.

Abrams: Well, I was standing on Elm Street when the shots were fired. I saw two men running towards the train tracks after the shots were fired.

2094 is McCloy asking Prouty questions where Prouty says:

Prouty: Sure. The Office of Special Operations was a secret unit within the Air Force that was responsible for carrying out covert operations. We were involved in a lot of different things, including assassinations.

McCloy: Assassinations?

Prouty: Yes. We were involved in the assassination of Patrice Lumumba in the Congo, for example.

 

It would make sense to hide both of these as they would cause real problems - yet there are many, many items in the WCD which conflict with the WCR conclusions in broad daylight...

 

@David Josephs Is this applicable to the question of who ran the three tramps diversion?  Prouty?

[David Josephs]

Just now, Leslie Sharp said:

@David Josephs Is this applicable to the question of who ran the three tramps diversion?  Prouty?

 

All part of the same spider web...  btw, I sent you an email with what I think is a very important question before we discuss on the forum about the Sept 16 entry and a pdf key

[Leslie Sharp]

11 minutes ago, David Josephs said:

 

All part of the same spider web...  btw, I sent you an email with what I think is a very important question before we discuss on the forum about the Sept 16 entry and a pdf key

I saw and I responded and my computer crashed!

Will redo and send again.

But are you saying that Prouty was responsible for the specific diversion that included the parade of three tramps?  Isn't that the essence of this exercise?

[David Josephs]

1 hour ago, Leslie Sharp said:

I saw and I responded and my computer crashed!

Will redo and send again.

But are you saying that Prouty was responsible for the specific diversion that included the parade of three tramps?  Isn't that the essence of this exercise?

Not at all Leslie.  The documents related to the tramps - and whether the 3 arrest reports were done on that weekend or after the fact, and whether the 3 men in the photos have anything to do with the three men on the arrest reports.

Add now that BARD is claiming to find WCD #'s in the NARA release which are not viewable from the release but only from the meta-tags embedded.

AND these reports completely contradict what the arrest report says.  That there is yet another WCD # between the WCR's 1555 and BARD's 2312, #2094 which is the Q&A between Prouty and McCloy.

@Keyvan Shahrdar confirmed that the API search of the database only offers 2094 and 2312 as WCD#'s past 1555 yet with the numbering convention used, we should see WCD #'s from 1556 thru 2311, to arrive at 2312.

The API results include these WCD #'s so they are listed in the meta data of the database related to some record yet as I understand, the file themselves need not be visible or accessible for the API to find the meta data.

Keyvan can correct me if wrong

[Matt Allison]

A lot of what is being posted here is total nonsense, which doesn't help anyone.

Once again, these AI chatbots you people are referencing are not accurate in the slightest; they fabricate things whole cloth:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucination_(artificial_intelligence)

I posted the modern photos of the three tramps marched through Dealey Plaza above; we have their names, the arrest record and photos match. They were not conspirators or involved in the assassination in any way.

We've had enough fake news from the Fascist Right-Wing in this country the past few years, let's not add to that problem here, OK?

[Leslie Sharp]

21 minutes ago, David Josephs said:

Not at all Leslie.  The documents related to the tramps - and whether the 3 arrest reports were done on that weekend or after the fact, and whether the 3 men in the photos have anything to do with the three men on the arrest reports.

Add now that BARD is claiming to find WCD #'s in the NARA release which are not viewable from the release but only from the meta-tags embedded.

AND these reports completely contradict what the arrest report says.  That there is yet another WCD # between the WCR's 1555 and BARD's 2312, #2094 which is the Q&A between Prouty and McCloy.

@Keyvan Shahrdar confirmed that the API search of the database only offers 2094 and 2312 as WCD#'s past 1555 yet with the numbering convention used, we should see WCD #'s from 1556 thru 2311, to arrive at 2312.

The API results include these WCD #'s so they are listed in the meta data of the database related to some record yet as I understand, the file themselves need not be visible or accessible for the API to find the meta data.

Keyvan can correct me if wrong

BARD's 2312, #2094 which is the Q&A between Prouty and McCloy.

You have my attention! @David Josephs

Speaking of diversions and clean up ops, McCloy endorsed Allen Dulles's introduction of Isaac Don Levine's pseudo study of the "the lone gunman" personality in the opening days of the Warren Commission.

Pierre Lafitte identifies Levine in his November 28 entry, writing, Levine will deal with Marina. 

It was public knowledge (fairly early I believe) that Levine visited Marina at the Ford home in Richardson in early 1964; however, who knew that Levine was designated to "deal with" her six days after the assassination and four days following the murder of her husband?

@Matt Allison I highly respect your research, and am asking the questions:

1) if the tramps were a diversion, who specifically ran that aspect of the operation?

2) if the tramps were as you argue not involved in any way why have so many expended extraordinary time and energy on their photos?
 

Edited July 17, 2023 by Leslie Sharp

[David Josephs]

44 minutes ago, Matt Allison said:

A lot of what is being posted here is total nonsense, which doesn't help anyone.

Once again, these AI chatbots you people are referencing are not accurate in the slightest; they fabricate things whole cloth:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucination_(artificial_intelligence)

I posted the modern photos of the three tramps marched through Dealey Plaza above; we have their names, the arrest record and photos match. They were not conspirators or involved in the assassination in any way.

We've had enough fake news from the Fascist Right-Wing in this country the past few years, let's not add to that problem here, OK?

Matt...

While I have enjoyed reading your posts now for a while, your insistence on this definitive identification based on, what?  Can you post the facial analyses they did - given we can now scan 2d, create 3d and do exact comparisons based on the mathematical relationships between facial features.  If that was done, please forgive me and provide the link.

If not, and this is based on pure visual, and "trust me that's me" confessions, you'll have to excuse my remaining a bit skeptical.  Especially since I have been thru mountains of WISE/TRAMPS related documentation, have a brain, and see this as part of an overall cover-up, confusion effort that extends in virtually every direction that afternoon and thru the weekend.

As to "AI chatbots" - we are using a direct API into the NARA database that comes back with metadata results which match the BARD results when looking into the same database.

The metadata is there describing these WCDs which have never been seen and suggest a number of WCD's well in excess of the 1555 at MFF.  AI does not make up metadata within a search, nor does it create a Q&A without if being asked.  I stand corrected. Using the format of WCR Q&A it has Specter asking Q's which are not there.  Doesn't change the fact the metadata is still there

FYI - 
{ "total": 1, "results": [ { "objectFilename": "Warren Commission Document 2094", "description": "Transcript of an interview with Fletcher Prouty", "content": { "text": "Fletcher Prouty was interviewed by the Warren Commission on December 13, 1963. Prouty stated that he was a former Air Force colonel who had worked in the Office of Special Operations. Prouty stated that he had knowledge of the assassination plot against President Kennedy." }, "source": "Warren Commission", "dateCreated": "1963-12-13", "dateModified": "1963-12-13" } ] }

I'm sorry to disagree with your conclusions about these men and the events surrounding them.  We are trying to research the situation, while I have yet to see a single realistic presentation of research or data to support all three men being who you say they are.  Just you saying so.

You could always just ignore this thread if you disagree and let us do our work
You could always post something to convince me I'm wrong

or you can continue to throw backhanded insults in the thread showing our efforts 
in an effort to accomplish what exactly -

that you don't like people disagreeing with you and being able to prove it?

==

I got no beef with you...  I am working with @Steve Thomas and @Leslie Sharp on connecting years of research between the three of us with the additional help of @Keyvan Shahrdar on the web/API side of the equation.

So no Matt... not OK.   James Files is fake news.  Judy Baker is fake news.

The duplicity found in so much of the JFK evidence are the keys to working back to those in control of the operation.

If you haven't seen by now how things are connected within a huge spider's web of people and ideology, greed and hate... let's not add THAT problem here, OK?

Edited July 17, 2023 by David Josephs

[Jonathan Cohen]

33 minutes ago, Matt Allison said:

A lot of what is being posted here is total nonsense, which doesn't help anyone.

Once again, these AI chatbots you people are referencing are not accurate in the slightest; they fabricate things whole cloth:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucination_(artificial_intelligence)

I posted the modern photos of the three tramps marched through Dealey Plaza above; we have their names, the arrest record and photos match. They were not conspirators or involved in the assassination in any way.

We've had enough fake news from the Fascist Right-Wing in this country the past few years, let's not add to that problem here, OK?

Amen, times 100.

[Jonathan Cohen]

3 minutes ago, David Josephs said:

You could always just ignore this thread if you disagree and let us do our work
You could always post something to convince me I'm wrong

You will never be convinced you are wrong, because you can always fall back on your beloved "all the evidence is fake" trope. But by all means, go "do your work" involving Lee Harvey Oswald doppelgangers, fake tramps, fake evidence, fake films, fake witnesses, fake documents ... When does it ever end?

[Matt Allison]

David- I am not the one posting fake evidence here...

Conjuring up nonsense about the JFKA is bad for history,  bad for America, and bad for JFKA research.

John McCloy never interviewed Fletcher Prouty, ok? Bard is the same shoddy AI we've seen with ChatGPT.

It's fake.

Your suggestion that the photos and names of the tramps don't match is ridiculous, and to be perfectly honest, worrisome.

 

[Matt Allison]

33 minutes ago, Leslie Sharp said:

if the tramps were as you argue not involved in any way why have so many expended extraordinary time and energy on their photos?

The tramp photos were originally dragged out in 1967 to lead DA Jim Garrison on a wild goose chase. Later on, A.J. Weberman became obsessed with them and tried to claim the oldest tramp was Howard Hunt.

They have functioned as an effective red herring for decades now, and it's sad that people are still suckered into believing they have something to do with the crime.

[Matt Allison]

At one point, Bard answers were measured at more than 50% fictional