Prayer Man More Than A Fuzzy Picture

[Pete Mellor]

4 hours ago, Gerry Down said:

Though it only seems to be available in paperback not hardback?

For now.  I believe that Bart is planning a hardback 'special' edition sometime in the future.

[Gerry Down]

1 hour ago, Pete Mellor said:

For now.  I believe that Bart is planning a hardback 'special' edition sometime in the future.

Thanks. I was wondering how he was going to do a hardback when publish-on-demand seem to be all the rage nowadays and they don't do hardback copies.

So there's a hardback special coming down the line? That makes me want to wait for the hardback edition. Don't want to feel like I'm missing out on anything.

[Pete Mellor]

On 9/5/2023 at 6:47 PM, Gerry Down said:

So there's a hardback special coming down the line? That makes me want to wait for the hardback edition. Don't want to feel like I'm missing out on anything.

Well, the timeline is unknown. You could be waiting a while.  Bart has also intimated there could be further books in his timeline.  At this time the e book is favourite.

[Gerry Down]

52 minutes ago, Pete Mellor said:

Well, the timeline is unknown. You could be waiting a while.  Bart has also intimated there could be further books in his timeline.  At this time the e book is favourite.

Cool, thanks.

[Greg Doudna]

On 9/5/2023 at 10:47 AM, Gerry Down said:

Thanks. I was wondering how he was going to do a hardback when publish-on-demand seem to be all the rage nowadays and they don't do hardback copies.

So there's a hardback special coming down the line? That makes me want to wait for the hardback edition. Don't want to feel like I'm missing out on anything.

POD (print on demand) can be either softbound (paperback) or hardbound covers, depending on the choice of the creator (the one paying for the per-copy publication), via all the ones doing POD, createspace, lulu, etc. Its just hardbound costs a bit more.

My paper copy arrived a couple of days ago from amazon of Prayer Man: More than a Fuzzy Picture". It has extensive excerpts of testimony and documents of the hours following the assassination related to the TSBD and the interrogations of Oswald. There is an index in the back to find names. All the footnotes, numbered in parentheses at the ends of sentences, are not in the book but go to Bart Kamp's website. All the footnotes on the website are document links, no added authorial comments. I had a little trouble finding the footnotes section on the author's website from the home page (http://www.prayer-man.com) . They are here https://wp.me/P5e7Vm-6xp and here http://www.prayer-man.com/misc/the-book/. Mostly this book presents from primary documents, with some clarifying and interpretive comments and bullet-point summaries of key points of fact or analysis, but often also testimony excerpts presented in sequence without comment. The author suggests along the way but is understated and does not dominate the presentation. There is no Conclusion chapter in the author's voice as most books have, presenting a concluding interpretive synthesis or summary of argument, which either is or isn't an advantage or omission depending on perspective. There are no polemics, vendettas, or criticisms of other authors. A huge amount of primary source material organized and linked to between two covers. 

Edited September 9, 2023 by Greg Doudna

[Pete Mellor]

Mr Kamp was interviewed on Black Op Radio show No.1163 (appropriately) featuring 'Prayer Man etc., here:-

https://www.blackopradio.com/archives2023.html

 

 

[Pete Mellor]

Bart Kamp interview Out of the Blank.

Also, 'Prayer Man: More Than A Fuzzy Picture' is now available at Barnes & Noble.

 

[David Von Pein]

Here's a review of Bart Kamp's new 2023 book "Prayer Man: More Than A Fuzzy Picture". This well-written review, which contains opinions that I agree with 100%, was posted at Amazon by an individual using only the initials "LBP" [who, I later learned, is former EF Forum member Lance Payette].....

Review Title:

"Well-meaning and worthwhile presentation of patent nonsense"

Quote On:

"Bart Kamp is a serious and well-meaning JFK assassination researcher who is a fixture at the Reopen the Kennedy Case forum, where the overarching theme is that LEE HARVEY OSWALD WAS COMPLETELY INNOCENT!!! This book thus reflects that perspective. More to the point, one of the obsessions there is Prayer Man, an exceedingly fuzzy photo of someone on the Texas School Book Depository steps who might well be a woman but WAS IN FACT LEE HARVEY OSWALD!!!

There is an initial mental hurdle you must overcome to find this book fascinating and worthwhile. It must make sense to you that Oswald, the designated patsy whose rifle would be found on the sixth floor of the TSBD, was nevertheless allowed by the bumbling conspirators to be standing on the steps of the TSBD at the time of the assassination. A secondary mental hurdle is accepting that it "just so happens" that Oswald was captured in a single fuzzy photo that could well be your Aunt Tillie but not in pristinely clear photos that were or well could have been taken in Dealey Plaza on that fateful day. A third mental hurdle, I suppose, is that Oswald never said he was standing on the steps - as I probably would've done if I'd been in his shoes and had such an ironclad alibi- and precisely no one, including the TSBD employees who actually were standing on the steps, ever said they saw him.

I confess, I am of such puny and limited imagination that I am incapable of clearing these hurdles and entering into the wild and wacky world of Prayer Man enthusiasts. I can conceive of no possible conspiracy scenario this side of "Reptilian aliens did it!!!" that would have allowed Oswald to be standing on the steps of the TSBD at the time of the assassination. Nope, sorry, I regard Prayer Man as utter and self-evident nonsense.

That being said, I emphasize again that Mr. Kamp is a serious assassination enthusiast whose Prayer Man website is a veritable goldmine of documents and information even if you regard Prayer Man as nonsense. Ditto for this book. It is chock-full of worthwhile information and links regardless of your perspective on Prayer Man. I give it 4 stars for sheer effort. I am constantly agog at some of the wild and wacky notions that seemingly sane and intelligent conspiracy enthusiasts manage to compartmentalize in their otherwise sane and intelligent minds, and this book also serves as a good illustration of why I am constantly agog." -- "LBP"; August 4, 2023

Link To This Review At Amazon.com

------------------------------

Also See:

http:// DVP's JFK Archives / "Prayer Man" (And Other Assorted Topics)

 

Edited September 22, 2023 by David Von Pein

[David Boylan]

And it seems to be the only review that was not a verified purchase. Did LBP even read the book?

[Jeremy Bojczuk]

'LBP' at Amazon writes:

Quote

It must make sense to you that Oswald, the designated patsy whose rifle would be found on the sixth floor of the TSBD, was nevertheless allowed by the bumbling conspirators to be standing on the steps of the TSBD at the time of the assassination.

And LBP's reasoning is ... what, exactly? He or she doesn't provide any reasoning to justify his or her conclusion. Why should Oswald not have been free to stand wherever he wanted during the assassination?

Oswald was indeed nominated as a lone gunman after the event. But it doesn't follow that any plot which implicated him must have designated him as the lone gunman before the event, and required him to have been out of sight on the sixth floor or elsewhere during the event.

As 'LBP' admits, it was the sixth-floor rifle which linked Oswald to the crime. It was Oswald whose personal history, in turn, linked the Cuban and Soviet regimes to the crime, and it was those regimes who became the primary suspects. It isn't far-fetched to suppose that Oswald's role in any plot would have been simply to implicate the Cuban or Soviet regimes in the assassination.

If so, it really wouldn't matter what his location was during the shooting. He could have been standing on the steps watching the parade, or sitting in the domino room eating his lunch, or even sitting at home eating his lunch having phoned in sick that morning.

It was the rifle which linked Oswald with the crime. The notion that he was firing that rifle may have become part of official mythology, but it need not have been part of any plot.

Quote

Oswald was captured in a single fuzzy photo

The Prayer Man figure was not "captured in a single fuzzy photo". The figure was captured in many frames of two black-and-white news films, by James Darnell and Dave Wiegman. As David Boylan points out, has 'LBP' actually read the book he or she claims to be reviewing?

Quote

Oswald never said he was standing on the steps

Well, it's true that none of the surviving official records of his interviews have him saying that. But those official records are glaringly incomplete.

There is one question to which even the notoriously corrupt Dallas police force would surely have insisted on a straight answer: where exactly were you during the shooting, Mr Oswald? We have two accounts of his answer, both of them inadequate: he "claimed to be on the first floor" (Warren Report, p.613) and "he said he was having his lunch about that time on the first floor" (WR, p.600). According to a particularly well-informed and readable discussion of Oswald's alibi and of its disgraceful treatment by officialdom:

Quote

It is inconceivable that even the Dallas police would have been satisfied with an account of what their only suspect was doing at "about" the time of the assassination. Because no mention is made of Oswald refusing to provide a precise alibi, one might reasonably suspect that a precise alibi was given, and that it contained information that could have been, and perhaps was, checked for corroboration.

(http://22november1963.org.uk/lee-harvey-oswald-alibi)

As it happens, Oswald may well have claimed that he was standing on the steps at the time the Prayer Man figure was filmed standing there. According to hand-written notes by James Hosty, first published by none other than Bart Kamp, whose book 'LBP' may or may not actually have read:

Quote

O stated he was present for work at TBD on the morning of 11/22 and at noon went to lunch. He went to 2nd floor to get Coca Cola to eat with lunch and returned to 1st floor to eat lunch. Then went outside to watch P. [Presidential] Parade

(http://www.prayer-man.com/then-went-outside-to-watch-p-parade/)

'LBP' claims that "Oswald never said he was standing on the steps". Whether or not Oswald specifically mentioned "standing on the steps" is beside the point; Oswald clearly claimed to have gone outside to watch the parade at about the time the parade was passing the building, even though this important detail was not preserved in the official accounts of his interviews.

'LBP' admits that:

Quote

I confess, I am of such puny and limited imagination that I am incapable of clearing these hurdles

We can't argue with that. He or she continues:

Quote

I can conceive of no possible conspiracy scenario this side of "Reptilian aliens did it!!!" that would have allowed Oswald to be standing on the steps of the TSBD at the time of the assassination.

Just because 'LBP' can't conceive of a scenario tells us more about 'LBP' than about the plausibility of the scenario in question. In fact, it is perfectly plausible that Oswald had been implicated in the assassination before the event and yet was at liberty to go outside to watch the p. parade.

[David Von Pein]

2 hours ago, David Boylan said:

Did LBP even read the book?

Does it really matter? Absurd theories such as "Prayer Man Is Lee Oswald" practically debunk themselves, as discussed here.

 

Edited September 21, 2023 by David Von Pein

[Sandy Larsen]

52 minutes ago, Jeremy Bojczuk said:

According to hand-written notes by James Hosty, first published by none other than Bart Kamp, whose book 'LBP' may or may not actually have read:

Quote

O stated he was present for work at TBD on the morning of 11/22 and at noon went to lunch. He went to 2nd floor to get Coca Cola to eat with lunch and returned to 1st floor to eat lunch. Then went outside to watch P. [Presidential] Parade

 

Yes, FBI Agent James Hosty's handwritten notes of Oswald's interrogation stated that Oswald's alibi was that he was outside watching the "P. Parade."

Similarly, in FBI Agent James Bookhout's official report on Oswald's interrogation, it is revealed that Oswald's alibi was that he was outside with Bill Shelley. Here is the relevant excerpt:

Oswald stated that he took this Coke down to the first floor and stood around and had lunch in the employees lunch room. He thereafter went outside and stood around for five or ten minutes with foreman Bill Shelly....

This corroborates James Hosty's note, that Oswald said he was outside after lunch. No doubt to watch the motorcade.

In LBP's review of Bart Kamp's book, he says that this is not possible, because it doesn't conform to his theory. To this I ask, why is he trying to make the evidence match his theory? What I and others have done instead is to incorporate this relatively recent corroborated evidence into our theories. In my case, I quit saying that the CIA plotters painted Oswald as a gunman working with Cuba and Russia. I now say that the plotters painted Oswald as a member of an assassination team working  with Cuba and Russia.

 

 

[David Von Pein]

6 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

in FBI Agent James Bookhout's official report on Oswald's interrogation, it is revealed that Oswald's alibi was that he was outside with Bill Shelley. Here is the relevant excerpt:

Oswald stated that he took this Coke down to the first floor and stood around and had lunch in the employees lunch room. He thereafter went outside and stood around for five or ten minutes with foreman Bill Shelly....

You've totally misrepresented the TIMING of the above information in Bookhout's solo report, Sandy!

A reading of the whole Bookhout report clearly indicates that the paragraph quoted by Sandy Larsen above is unquestionably referring to a point in time AFTER the Baker/Oswald encounter in the lunchroom.

And when did that second-floor encounter occur? It occurred, of course, AFTER the shooting had taken place. Therefore, Bookhout's report most certainly does not give Oswald an "alibi" for the exact time of the shooting itself.

Why did you misrepresent the timing like that, Sandy?

 

[Sandy Larsen]

2 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Similarly, in FBI Agent James Bookhout's official report on Oswald's interrogation, it is revealed that Oswald's alibi was that he was outside with Bill Shelley. Here is the relevant excerpt:

Oswald stated that he took this Coke down to the first floor and stood around and had lunch in the employees lunch room. He thereafter went outside and stood around for five or ten minutes with foreman Bill Shelly....

 

I need to point out that this wasn't always clearly understood. The reason being that the FBI inserted the story of the Baker/Oswald second-floor encounter in the wrong place. I am including it here, in red.

Oswald stated that .... he was on the second floor of said building, having just purchased a Coca-cola form the soft-drink machine, at which time a police officer came into the room with pistol drawn and asked him if he worked there. .... Oswald stated that he took this Coke down to the first floor and stood around and had lunch in the employees lunch room. He thereafter went outside and stood around for five or ten minutes with foreman Bill Shelly....

We know it's inserted in the wrong place because, according to this narrative, Baker came in and had his second-floor encounter with Oswald first, and then Oswald went down and had his lunch. Which is nonsense. The red text should have been inserted after the black text.

Not that it matters. Bart and others (including myself) have shown that the second-floor encounter is a story fabricated for the coverup.

 

[David Von Pein]

Sandy Larsen's imagination is running wild....as usual.

It's The World vs. The Patsy  in a CTer's fanciful universe.

Edited September 21, 2023 by David Von Pein