Paul Landis Revelation About Assassination Bullet

[James DiEugenio]

CE 399 ended up in Connally's thigh right?

Landis says he found this bullet in or on the back seat. Correct?

How did it escape Connally's thigh and jump into the back seat?

 

 

 

Edited September 11, 2023 by James DiEugenio

[David Von Pein]

1 hour ago, Pat Speer said:

Note that Landis now says he brought it into Trauma Room One, when he originally said he put it on the seat. This is quite interesting, IMO. Perhaps then he is covering for Kinney. He put it on the seat and Kinney took it in. 

But Landis isn't talking about a WHOLE bullet there, Pat. He's talking only about a "fragment". Big difference.

And now Landis is saying he saw a whole bullet PLUS two different fragments lying on the back seat.

So that's three bullet items he's now claiming to have seen.

Yeah, right.

 

Edited September 11, 2023 by David Von Pein

[K K Lane]

2 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

But Landis isn't talking about a WHOLE bullet there, Pat. He's talking only about a "fragment". Big difference.

And now Landis is saying he saw a whole bullet PLUS two different fragments lying on the back seat.

So that's three bullet items he's now claiming to have seen.

Yeah, right.

 

I agree there seems to be, at minimum, a slightly-deformed bullet that Landis recently revealed and a bullet fragment that Landis mentioned 13 years ago.   Confusing

Posner has written a piece on Landis's book, which he seems to have read: https://www.justthefacts.media/p/an-explosive-jfk-assassination-tale

Posner quotes from The Kennedy Detail in 2010:  “When Agent Paul Landis helped Mrs. Kennedy out of the car he saw a bullet fragment in the back where the top would be secured. He picked it up and put it on the seat"

 

[Chris Bristow]

2 hours ago, Mark Ulrik said:

That alone seems to put Landis' story to bed. It would also be hard to explain how a bullet causing only a shallow wound would sustain the amount of damage that CE 399 did.

The questions just keep piling up. One more day and the only questions left will be about his motive for lying. 

[James DiEugenio]

To quote Posner:

The idea that the whole bullet found on a hospital stretcher might have been planted was scientifically rebutted by neutron activation tests conducted for the House Select Committee on Assassinations in the late 1970s. Vincent Guinn, a University of California professor of chemistry, and an expert in neutron activation tests, explained why the science had advanced since the assassination and allowed him to draw a firm conclusion: “The stretcher bullet matches the fragments in the [Connally] wrist, and that indicates indeed that that particular bullet did fracture the wrist.”

Oh please Gerald.

Edited September 11, 2023 by James DiEugenio

[James DiEugenio]

In his first footnote, Posner is also using that mock trial again which he only told half a story about in his book and which Harold Weisberg exposed very early in his critique.

[James DiEugenio]

Does anyone here, even the most extreme WC zealots, truly think that Posner does not know that the NAA was discredited beyond recognition. 

To the point that the judge said to the FBI that if they ever tried to introduce it in court again, he would indict them for perjury.

But there he goes again.  So desperate to retain the mythology of CE 399 that he uses Guinn, who not even Blakey endorses today.

I don't even want to talk about that mock trial.  In which both sides were presented but Gerry did not inform the reader of that. 

[Pat Speer]

56 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

But Landis isn't talking about a WHOLE bullet there, Pat. He's talking only about a "fragment". Big difference.

And now Landis is saying he saw a whole bullet PLUS two different fragments lying on the back seat.

So that's three bullet items he's now claiming to have seen.

Yeah, right.

 

I just went back and re-read the Vanity Fair and NY Times articles, and they present a different story. Both tell Landis' story second-hand. The facts in the story conflict. In one the bullet is found on the seat. in the other it is found at the top of the back of the seat. While this conflict could be because the journalists couldn't understand exactly what he was saying--at least 20-30% of articles in the assassination make such a mistake--it might also be taken as an indication he's erratic--which would not come as a surprise due to his age and the time involved. I think I'll wait to see what he says in his book and the interviews to come before coming to a conclusion as to his reliability. 

[Pat Speer]

5 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

Does anyone here, even the most extreme WC zealots, truly think that Posner does not know that the NAA was discredited beyond recognition. 

To the point that the judge said to the FBI that if they ever tried to introduce it in court again, he would indict them for perjury.

But there he goes again.  So desperate to retain the mythology of CE 399 that he uses Guinn, who not even Blakey endorses today.

I don't even want to talk about that mock trial.  In which both sides were presented but Gerry did not inform the reader of that. 

Posner may be relying on Sturdivan and Rahn, who claimed (falsely) to have resuscitated Guinn's findings. 

Or maybe he's just full of it, replaying the nonsense he's used to playing. If so, well, he's not alone. There are plenty of CT's doing this very thing, whether it be claiming Oswald is in Altgens or that Greer shot JFK, etc. 

I think that K and K or some other website should create a tally board, with a list of 20 or so issues, along with the current feelings of the most prominent researchers on these issues. This would be of help to the media in cases like this one. While the media will almost certainly depict Landis' story as a CT/LN issue, it could very well turn out that some LNs think there's something to it, and that many CTs find it unreliable. 

Such a tally board would also be helpful to TV producers tasked with deciding what is credible vs incredible. It seems probable that if such a list were in existence at the time. nonsensical shows like The Lost Bullet and The Smoking Gun would not have been made. 

[Benjamin Cole]

Like everyone else, I am mostly uncertain what the Landis story means. 

I will say this: The WC version is that CE 399 passed through JFK's back but emerged through his Adam's apple-neck, and although shot from above then did not tumble and pierced JBC's back, took out four inches of JBC's rib, and then exited JBC's front chest (leaving a large exit wound) and then smashed JBC's wrist (somehow entering from the wristwatch side), and then lodged in JBC's thigh. 

And then CE 399, emerged nearly pristine on a stretcher, or under a stretcher-gurney, in Parkland, a few floors away from JFK and JBC.  

OK, the Landis version, by deduction, is that CE399 was undercharged, penetrated JFK a little, then fell out, and was found by Landis. He put CE399 in Parkland. 

BTW, Hume and Finck said the hole in JFK's back was only an inch or so deep. 

---

The Landis version is more believable. 

[James DiEugenio]

Ben:

Many people think what Landis apparently does.  That the back wound did not go through Kennedy's body.

I think Pat Speer is in that school.

There is a lot of evidence to indicate such was the case.

To many, the clincher is that the doctors were instructed by the military brass on hand not to dissect the back wound. We have that from Pierre Finck under oath at the Clay Shaw trial. And if you want to read something pretty pathetic, read how Humes replies to this question about dissection before the ARRB.

[David Von Pein]

While performing an online newspaper search for "Paul Landis, Secret Service" early this morning [September 11, 2023], I came across the 1983 newspaper article seen below, which contains an interesting passage that totally contradicts Landis' new 2023 claims. The '83 article says:

"Landis said that when he got to the Kennedy limousine outside the hospital, the president had already been taken inside, but he helped Mrs. Kennedy out. He said there was a bullet fragment on the top of the back seat that he picked up and gave to somebody."

So, in 1983, Mr. Landis was saying it was merely a "bullet fragment" that he picked up in the limo, which he "gave to somebody". But now, forty years later in 2023, it's a whole bullet (not just a fragment) which he didn't give to anyone but which he himself carried into the hospital and placed on JFK's stretcher.

Looks like Mr. Landis' credibility issues just got a lot worse.

Click to enlarge:

Edited September 12, 2023 by David Von Pein

[Benjamin Cole]

1 hour ago, James DiEugenio said:

Ben:

Many people think what Landis apparently does.  That the back wound did not go through Kennedy's body.

I think Pat Speer is in that school.

There is a lot of evidence to indicate such was the case.

To many, the clincher is that the doctors were instructed by the military brass on hand not to dissect the back wound. We have that from Pierre Finck under oath at the Clay Shaw trial. And if you want to read something pretty pathetic, read how Humes replies to this question about dissection before the ARRB.

Add on:

Many witnesses statements were to the effect that the audible first shot sounded different from the second two audible shots. 

That would line up with a first shot that had a defective or undercharged cartridge. 

I do not rule out additional inaudible shots (silencers, pneumatic weapon), or simultaneous shots, heard as one shot. 

In any event, the Landis' bullet lines up with a shallow JFK back wound, which is what was found in the autopsy. 

Very interesting. 

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

1 hour ago, David Von Pein said:

In the 1983 newspaper article seen below, an interesting passage can be found which totally contradicts Paul Landis' new 2023 claims. The '83 article says:

"Landis said that when he got to the Kennedy limousine outside the hospital, the president had already been taken inside, but he helped Mrs. Kennedy out. He said there was a bullet fragment on the top of the back seat that he picked up and gave to somebody."

So, in 1983, Mr. Landis was saying it was merely a "bullet fragment" that he picked up in the limo, which he "gave to somebody". But now, forty years later in 2023, it's a whole bullet (not just a fragment) which he didn't give to anyone but which he himself carried into the hospital and placed on JFK's stretcher.

Looks like Mr. Landis' credibility issues just got a lot worse.

Click to enlarge:

Ok, a bullet fragment, so, this was a remnant lead slug of the 55 grain AR15 shot by Hickey at Z312, that had exited JFK's head veering 6 deg & cracking the windshield.

[Michael Griffith]

On 9/9/2023 at 6:48 PM, David Von Pein said:

Below is a portion of what Special Agent Paul Landis said in this extremely detailed Secret Service report that he wrote on November 27, 1963. Here's what Landis said he found "on the back seat" of the Presidential limo at Parkland:

"By this time someone was lifting the President's body out of the right side of the car. Agent Hill helped Mrs. Kennedy out of the car, and I followed. Mrs. Kennedy's purse and hat and a cigarette lighter were on the back seat. I picked these three items up as I walked through the car and followed Mrs. Kennedy into the hospital."

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http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2023/06/paul-landis.html

 

LOL. So predictable. And of course it's just unthinkable that Landis covered up the finding of the bullet, either voluntarily or under orders, right? IOW, Landis is either incomprehensibly "mistaken" or he is lying.

What actions did Landis "mistake" for the actions he describes--the finding of the bullet, removing the bullet, and placing it on the stretcher? What actions could he have performed that he would wrongly recall as finding a bullet, removing it, and putting it on a stretcher? 

You guys have endlessly said that "someone would have talked." Well, some people have talked, but you guys bend over backward and look for any excuse to reject their accounts because they contradict the lone-gunman theory.