Jump to content
The Education Forum
Anthony Thorne

National Archives release first batch of 2017 JFK documents

Recommended Posts

To Jim Di….

I got discouraged going through all the irrelevant and/or illegible docs in this set and have given up for a while.  I thought I saw some reference to docs still being withheld, though the summary wording was a bit different.  Wish I’d kept notes... and I may be mistaken.

To answer your question from the previous page, the Collins Radio PDF file I looked through (DOCID-32358065.PDF) was 21 pages long.  Didn’t see anything in it about Wise or Mather; It was mostly about subjects more or less originating in the 1970s.  

I’d sure like to read the HSCA interview with Mather, though I can only hope we can trust it after being suppressed for all these years.  It appears he may have been granted immunity... which might explain why the interview has never seen the light of day.

Mather_Immunity.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sure were a lot of the Personnel department in on these arrests.  Seems a whole lot of "FORGERY" dept members were there too...??

Where are all of homicide detectives?  Where are ANY of the homicide detectives?

 

Edited by David Josephs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As someone who does not follow the JFK debate nor have any great understanding of it, can I ask:

Was there anything in these new documents that people considered significant, important, etc?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

NEW SECRET FILE RELEASED BY Nat. Arch. SHOWS DR. ALTON OCHSNER WAS IN DIRECT CONTACT WITH THE CIA IN 1962, just as  Judyth Vary Baker reported in her ( 2010) book Me & Lee. ME & LEE will give you an accurate history of the real Lee Oswald. This NEWLY RELEASED SECRET FILE SHOWS DR. ALTON OCHSNER'S LAST PERSONAL (FACE-TO-FACE) CONTACT WITH THE CIA WAS JAN. 8, 1962. The "Ochsner/Sherman/Ferrie/Baker/Oswald get-Castro project", incl use of a linear particle accelerator, began March 23, 1962. This secret file also shows the CIA's LAST DIRECT CONTACT with Ochsner Clinic was Nov. 8, 1963, one month after the "Ochsner/Sherman/Ferrie/BAker/Oswald Get Castro with cancer" Project closed down and just two weeks before JFK was killed. 

JVBakers critics tried to say she made it all up about Ochsner being involved with the CIA in 1962 and 1963, as the only record before now was back in the early 1950's.


 credit: JVB

 r3vq6sog.jpg

Edited by Karl Kinaski

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's interesting Karl, but JVB is not the first source about Alton Ochner or his right wing connections. Mary Sherman, who was asked by Ochsner to  join Ochsner's clinic was investigated for her connections to David Ferrie way back in the 60's by Jim Garrison. According to Michael Benson's "The Encyclopedia of the JFK Assassination". Ochsner's connections to Guy Bannister and Clay Shaw were revealed by Bannister "investigator" Allen Campbell. But Jim Di reveals in his book  that Campbell worked for Bannister. JVB is definitely cunning and well read about the assassination.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/8/2017 at 2:52 AM, Evan Burton said:

As someone who does not follow the JFK debate nor have any great understanding of it, can I ask:

Was there anything in these new documents that people considered significant, important, etc?

Evan,

It's far too early to ask.  There are more than 3,000 documents to examine, and their index lists more than 1,000 with DocID only-- no titles.

Also some are still only partially released, to be fully released only in October.

Newsweek was clearly hasty last week with it's cheap shot article on Nosenko.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited by Paul Trejo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:

Evan,

It's far too early to ask.  There are more than 3,000 documents to examine, and their index lists more than 1,000 with DocID only-- no titles.

Also some are still only partially released, to be fully released only in October.

Newsweek was clearly hasty last week with it's cheap shot article on Nosenko.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

 

On 8/8/2017 at 3:52 AM, Evan Burton said:

As someone who does not follow the JFK debate nor have any great understanding of it, can I ask:

Was there anything in these new documents that people considered significant, important, etc?

Evan, The most interesting document I have seen so far is the document revealing that Earle Cabell, Dallas Mayor and brother of Deputy director of the CIA Charles Cabel, who was fired after the BOPI, was a CIA "agent".

Paul doesn't find this interesting because it undermines his pet theory.

I hadn't responded yet because I supposed others had better input on what has already been released. It looks like we can expect "nothing to see here" responses from Paul Trejo until all documents are released, and beyond.

Edited by Michael Clark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9.8.2017 at 7:56 AM, Kirk Gallaway said:

That's interesting Karl, but JVB is not the first source about Alton Ochner or his right wing connections. Mary Sherman, who was asked by Ochsner to  join Ochsner's clinic was investigated for her connections to David Ferrie way back in the 60's by Jim Garrison. According to Michael Benson's "The Encyclopedia of the JFK Assassination". Ochsner's connections to Guy Bannister and Clay Shaw were revealed by Bannister "investigator" Allen Campbell. But Jim Di reveals in his book  that Campbell worked for Bannister. JVB is definitely cunning and well read about the assassination.

In her 2010 book ME AND LEE JVB made two claims now proved right by these newly released docs: that Ochsner was in touch with the CIA at the time of the JFK assassination and Oswald was in Mexico City in connection with a get Castro project. You say, she is very well read and cunning: is she a clairvoyant too? I don't second everything she says in her book ME AND LEE but to ignore that book is IMO a big mistake of everyone who is interested in this hottest of all cold cases ... 

Edited by Karl Kinaski

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Karl:

Dr. Oschner had  links with the CIA and some other institutions (INCA), however, this does not automatically guarantee the veracity of Mrs. Baker's story.  Mrs. Baker claimed in her book that Dr. Oschner, Dr. Sherman, David Ferrie, Mrs. Baker and Lee Harvey Oswald worked on a bioweapon project which if successful would eliminate Castro and save Kennedy's life. The bioweapon was a dose of live cancer cells which needed to be injected into Castro's body which would have be weakened beforehand by X-rays. The New Orleans period was filled with a frantic effort of Mrs. Baker to deliver aggressive cancer cells, and with testing them on two prisoners brought to Jackson hospital from Angola prison. 

Unfortunately, all this elaborate story fails on a simple fact that cancer as such is not infectious. You read well: there cannot be a bioweapon utilising cancer cells as a method to kill a healthy person. Cancer is not infectious: if we care for a person having a lung cancer, we are not at risk of developing lung cancer. More specifically, our immune system can identify foreign cells and destroy them rapidly. Cancer cells, cultivated in mice by Mrs. Baker, would be recognised by Castro's body and destroyed. Therefore, Mrs. Baker invented the necessity of  Catro being exposed to X-rays to weaken his immunity. However, the immunosuppression due to repeated and massive X-ray doses would certainly be recognised by Catro himself, his doctors, and his family. Or, would you think that Castro would voluntarily undergo X-rays on daily basis without any reason? With bioweapon gone, Mrs. Baker story lacks the ending. What remains is the information which could be learned from books as Jim and Kirk have pointed out. 

Dr. Oschner was involved in cancer research, e.g. he investigated factors promoting cancer, such as tobacco. I can figure out that this research would be of interest to the military, and he therefore might have been hooked up by the CIA.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For several resons, I have been toying with the idea that Castro was not to be killed. He was needed to fill the role that he, indeed, did end-up filling for the following fifty years.

I can see this whole JVB thing playing-out in such a way that she and her cohorts believed that they were developing a method for killing Castro. It would ultimately not work, or the operation would get foiled, but, the Anti-Castro Cubans would believe that efforts were being made, and that the plan to Kill Castro was real.

JVB, LHO, Ferrie and others would believe that were developing a deadly plan. Oschner would know it was not a viable plan. Mary Sherman may have known or figured it out, and perhaps that is why she was murdered.

Similar to the Martina Lorenz "Poison pill dissolving in cold cream" story. That's just not a mistake I can see them making.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I also fail to see Karl as to how the new releases demonstrate Oswald was in MC in connection with a get Castro project.

Can you point out what new releases back that up?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Andej

I would agree with you if we are talking about regular cancer, or as you put it "cancer as such".

JVB, with the help of Dr Mary Sherman among others, developed a cancer that caused big tumors in mice within one or two days. They developed a designer cancer. As such it was different than regular cancer.

JVB said she worked for Oschner and now we know he has been tied to the CIA. Could it be that the weaponized cancer was to be given to Castro so that if he died of cancer it would give the US plausible deniability with regard to the US pledge to Russia not to invade Cuba or kill Castro?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now

×