Gary Murr

Hello Pat: Understandably I have been following this thread with some interest and appreciate not only your even-handed responses but also all comments generated by those who have an opinion on this subject matter. Yes, we all make mistakes/errors and it is only through an understanding and where applicable revelation and correction of errors that the case will ever move forward. Given that you believe the Todd "ET is not a recent addition" I would like your opinion on the comparative black and white photographs I present on the document attached herein. This image is from a previously unprinted FBI lab generated 4 X 5 view camera negative discovered by John Hunt at NARA.

Hello Micah: Regarding your question above; John Hunt spoke to Robert Frazier on several occasions and I do have some of the exchanges between the two. Is there anything specific or subject matter that John may have queried Frazier about concerning the FBI lab and their handling of assassination evidence? Gary Murr

Hello Greg: Thanks for taking the time to read my paper - a side-project/distraction I threw together late last year as a breather to take me away from a major manuscript I was working on [and continue to work on as my time allows]. One of the points I was trying to get across is that in truth I would not have expected Todd to have placed his initials on CE 399 for the simple reason that he was not an employee of the FBI lab at the time of the assassination, prior to the assassination event, nor at anytime after the assassination event. On the other hand he did put his "initials", indeed his entire signature, on the envelope given to him by Rowley in the evening of November 22, 1963, in my opinion Todd's [expected] due diligence in indicating his role in the provenance/travels of the item in question. It takes a unique pen to etch one's initials/identifying nomenclature onto a metallic surface, in this instance the copper jacket of the expended 6.5mm WCC cartridge. And though the main FBI lab in Washington undoubtedly had just such an implement, indeed more than one, there is no indication that I have found from any FBI lab employee, including lead on this case, Robert Frazier, that anyone gave Todd the pen in order that he put his initials on CE 399. One conclusion that could be drawn from the surviving documentation is that Todd may have remained in the FBI lab, or was present in the lab, to see Frazier, Cunningham, and Killion put their initials on this piece of evidence, but I have no proof of that. I attempted to talk to Robert Frazier while constructing this paper, but he refused to discuss any aspect of the assassination event when I phoned him. FWIW

Apologies for the broken link initially posted. I am providing a new link below [for anyone interested in this paper concerning Todd and CE 399] via a different file-transfer link. Hopefully this one works. Download link https://wetransfer.com/downloads/7e8e3d71055c7289bb94b25c961e38c720220605152752/234fce3ff5501009727378f74518bb4820220605152854/ff3b74

Because Todd never marked the bullet in the first place. The link below leads to a paper containing my thoughts on this subject matter. FWIW [Hint - press ctrl/enter simultaneously to gain access to this Word doc.] https://www.transferbigfiles.com/6c3fdb43-683a-4538-8817-fe7013ecf129/smo10vxiHkhJ3vk5x2E3kg2

Hey Greg: Below are some links regarding the "Enco" map found among Oswald's possessions at 1026 North Beckley. The first link is from the CIA's 201 file - I used this one because it is the best quality. It is an 11 page FBI summary of the 17 points found marked on the map - the pertinent pages here are 137 thru and including 145. The second link is a copy of the DPD property clerks receipt for the map The third link is to the Texas History Portal site - it is an image of the actual map which you can expand/zoom for detail The fourth link is to the FBI's original document of their investigation of the assassination [From the Harold Weisberg archives] The map is mentioned on page 27 of this PDF https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=95672#relPageId=137&search=%22map%22_and%20%22Oswald%22 https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=217800#relPageId=240&search=Humble_oil https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth49580/ http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/F%20Disk/FBI/FBI%20CD-1/Item%2022.pdf Gary

Congratulations, Vince! As a long time participant in this subject matter - the events of November 22, 1963 - I can unequivocally state that your work on the Secret Service and their part in what transpired on that date is absolutely without peer!! Don't ever plan to retire!!

Hey Pat: As a little side-project distraction, actually a purposeful one of my own construct to take my mind off a manuscript I am currently attempting to finish, I spent a week earlier this year constructing a 42 page paper specifically on this subject matter. If you are interested, I can send you a copy. I tried to send you a PM through this forum but it indicates that your inbox if full. Let me know how I can get this paper to you - again if you are interested. Gary

Well, its rather apparent that your massive "24 college hours in research and statistics..." did not involve spelling since you appear to be unable to correctly spell my last name. I can only assume that you also believe that I am some "lone nut" proponent who believes in the Warren Commission and Oswald's singular guilt, why else would you consider by work [obviously something you know absolutely nothing about] unreliable.

Edited ny Admin “Now, at this point no newspaper publication same day. And, apparently the Polaroid is on TV almost 3 hours after the assassination. I would like to know more of this story. Who had this photo so that it could be seen on TV. We have Costella saying no one smuggled this photo out. So, how did it get on TV and what was the source for NBC to show it. Anyone know?” As Jeremy Bojczuk accurately indicated to you in this thread, James Featherstone, a court reporter for the Dallas Times Herald, had seen Mary Moorman with her camera and it was he who took Mary and Jean Hill to the press room in the Dallas County Criminal Courts Building, which also was the location of the Dallas Sheriff’s Department. In referring to Mary’s Polaroid picture at a “Reporters Remember Conference” held in Dallas on November 20, 1993, Featherstone readily admitted that he “wanted that picture, period”, his rationale at the time being a thought that this might be “the only picture [of the assassination] in existence.” Featherstone further indicated at this same 1993 conference that Mary agreed to give him the image and both she and Jean Hill accompanied him to the press room in the Criminal Courts Building at which time he interviewed both women and then called the Times Herald re-write desk to pass along the content of their interviews. WBAP television newsman Jim Darnell was also in the press room of the Criminal Courts Building and his 1:21 p.m. CST interview of Jean Hill was one of the very first such interviews of an assassination witness played over the NBC network via WBAP’s Tom Whalen. Later in the afternoon NBC cameraman Henry Kokajan joined Darnell at the Court Building. Kokajan had arrived at the Court Building with WBAP’s only sound camera, which had been set up at the Trade Mart in anticipation of the Kennedy luncheon. At approximately 3:16 p.m., CST, NBC utilized once again their WBAP affiliate to report on witnesses to the assassination and it was at this time that the Moorman Polaroid was filmed by Kokajan, shown on camera, in advance of the filmed interview of both Mary Moorman and Jean Hill. So yes, the NBC television footage is a “true film!” [One of the best source materials for information on the NBC coverage of the assassination weekend is found in the book “There Was A President”, Ridge Press, New York, published in New York by Random House, 1966. Information regarding Darnell and Kokajan can be found in NBC videotape at the Kennedy Library, Columbia Point, Boston, Massachusetts, specifically reel TNN255-R1; “NBC telecast, 11/22/63.”]

Michael: Robert Charles Dunne is alive and well and lives just over an hours drive from me here in Canada. Tom Purvis, a long-time friend, unfortunately passed away on April 2, 2014. I lost contact with Bill Miller several years ago and do not know of his current whereabouts. And Greg Parker is most definitely still alive.

From a Ben Cole response earlier in this thread … Quote: Connally: I was knocked over, just doubled over by the force of the bullet. It went in my back and came out my chest about 2 inches below and the left of my right nipple. The force of the bullet drove my body over almost double… Nope… and as I wrote in a previous thread regarding this possibility… This, of course, is impossible [unless we are on the set of a Hollywood movie]. If one is to concede that John Connally’s thoracic wounding was as a result of impact from a 6.5mm Mannlicher Carcano bullet manufactured by the Western Cartridge Company of East Alton, Illinois, [or for that matter any bullet of comparative "size"] the mass of the bullet component of this cartridge simply is insufficient to generate enough momentum to “knock” a human body, which is tens of thousands of times heavier than the bullet, “over” in any direction. As most eloquently explained to me several years ago by the late Tom Purvis, no stranger to bullets and their capabilities to wound and kill, a bullet is a streamlined object, even one with a rounded nose like 6.5mm WCC ammunition. This specific bullet, like others, is designed to minimize the effect of aerodynamic drag, the advantage being that this design, in turn, concentrates a fairly large amount of “high” kinetic energy because of its speed onto a very small area with pressure facilitating penetration of the surface struck [in most cases, but in particular when it comes to human flesh]. Other factors to be considered is the caliber, “size’ and grain weight of the bullet, the length of the barrel, distance from the barrel of the object struck [in this case, John Connally] and where precisely the target [Connally] was hit. In the case of the Connally thoracic wound, and as described by Robert Shaw, it was a tunneling wound with the impacting missile traveling just under the surface of the skin until such time it struck, tangentially, the governor’s fifth rib at approximately its midpoint, before exiting with impact debris from the front of the chest just below the right nipple. That being the truth of the matter, there is no way possible that this same bullet knocked John Connally over “double” or otherwise – the math will not work. A 6.5mm WCC bullet has an average grain weight of approximately 161 grains. This equates to 0.368 ounces, which in turn equates to 0.023 lbs. John Connally was 6 feet, 2 inches tall, and weighed in excess of 200 lbs. FWIW Gary Murr

While we are discussing “clarity”… “Connally: I was knocked over, just doubled over by the force of the bullet… The force of the bullet drove my body over almost double…” This, of course, is impossible [unless we are on the set of a Hollywood movie]. If one is to concede that John Connally’s thoracic wounding was as a result of impact from a 6.5mm Mannlicher Carcano bullet manufactured by the Western Cartridge Company of East Alton, Illinois, the mass of the bullet component of this cartridge simply is insufficient to generate enough momentum to “knock” a human body, which is tens of thousands of times heavier than the bullet, “over” in any direction. As most eloquently explained to me several years ago by the late Tom Purvis, no stranger to bullets and their capabilities to wound and kill, a bullet is a streamlined object, even one with a rounded nose like 6.5mm WCC ammunition. This specific bullet, like others, is designed to minimize the effect of aerodynamic drag, the advantage being that this design, in turn, concentrates a fairly large amount of “high” kinetic energy because of its speed onto a very small area with pressure facilitating penetration of the surface struck [in most cases, but in particular when it comes to human flesh]. Other factors to be considered is the caliber, “size’ and grain weight of the bullet, the length of the barrel, the distance from the barrel of the object struck [in this case, John Connally] and where precisely the target [Connally] was hit. In the case of the Connally thoracic wound, and as described by Robert Shaw, it was a tunneling wound with the impacting missile traveling just under the surface of the skin until such time it struck, tangentially, the governor’s fifth rib at approximately its midpoint, before exiting with impact debris from the front of the chest just below the right nipple. That being the truth of the matter, there is no way possible that this same bullet knocked John Connally over “double” – the math will not work. A 6.5mm WCC bullet has an average grain weight of approximately 161 grains. This equates to 0.368 ounces, which in turn equates to 0.023 lbs. John Connally was 6 feet, 2 inches tall, and weight in excess of 200 lbs. FWIW Gary Murr

Hello Ron: At the time of the assassination of JFK, Audrey Bell was the head nurse supervisor of both the OR [Operating Rooms] and recovery rooms at Parkland Memorial Hospital. As someone who attempted to contact Bell on several occasions during my construct and gathering of research for my trilogy of works on the wounding of John Connally - unsuccessfully, as all of my correspondence was either ignored or returned - I can echo comments offered by Pat Speer. Audrey Bell is one individual whose various comments, narratives, "testimony' should be approached with caution. FWIW Gary Murr

Congratulations Joseph - I have the Kindle version ready for reading and am looking forward to getting into what I am sure will be a most enlightening study of the mainstream media.

Claude: While I agree that if C2766 was used in the assassination of JFK a clip of some manner and proper manufacture would have been used in order that three shots could have been fired within the theoretical time limitation of 6 seconds. However... Are you aware that the Firearms Panel of the HSCA repeatedly test fired the alleged weapon of the assassination utilizing "the" clip - CE 575 - and the proper 6.5mm WCC ammunition and among the conclusions they rendered was the following: "When the last cartridge was chambered, the cartridge clip remained in the magazine instead of falling out as it should have."[7HSCA365] I have personally examined CE 575 as well as having it re-examined by members of the NARA staff. In comparing the clip as it resides at NARA with multiple clips of the same manufacture that I have in my collection, the only apparent visible difference is that the CE 375 clip displays a slight "bent" appearance, which may or may not account for its refusal to "fall out" when tested by the HSCA. However, this is a hypothetical nuance on my part. Whether the clip displayed this same bent feature when it was first examined is unknown to me. And it does not appear bent as photographed by the FBI for CE 575. But this is, of course, merely the tip of the iceberg, as it were. FWIW Gary Murr

How did Tom Alyea know there were two rounds left in the clip? Having read the article in question, I find Alyea offering no substantiation for this claim.

Thanks, David - I suspect as much myself. As I believe you are aware, I wrote regarding the Joanne and others that Artime was attempting to consolidate into his "Maritime Fleet" in an unpublished manuscript, the content of which I gave to Larry Hancock as he was constructing Shadow Warfare. I am rather busy with a couple of projects at the moment but if I find the time I will see how/if this ties together.

Hi David: Do you have any idea as to which "boat" specifically Morales is referring to in this communique? Gary

Thank you for this statement, Pat. As you well know I have been at this a tad more than 19 years and it was precisely because of theoretical "research" such as that you have outlined here that I did not post for perusal my final [3rd] volume on the Connally wounding several years ago. I also happen to know, because of access to his research materials, that the late John Hunt tried to warn certain individuals in this community about their approach to among other things the Harper fragment, in particular their insistence that it was found left/south of the Z313 impact point, when as you have pointed out that is absolutely not true. Gary

Kudos Jim for producing a great documentary. And I wholeheartedly echo my colleague, Stu Wexler's comments regarding credit given to John Hunt for the fantastic research he conducted. It is unfortunate that more people do not have access to the literal gigabytes of data John acquired during his many, many visits to NARA. Perhaps some day this can be rectified. So too the massive amount of research John did on the assassination of RFK, another project that I hope will, at some point down the road, be presented for further examination.

Hello Greg: I cannot supply you with answers to the six questions you posed but can give you my two cents worth on this subject matter. You are correct, CE2011 would appear to have been generated as a result of a request sent to the Bureau by J. Lee Rankin dated, again as you have indicated May 20, 1964. [the link for this document is: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=59597#relPageId=2&search=%22C6_C7%20C38%22 You will note in the bottom right hand corner of this document the numeral “3942”, which to me is indicative that this request and its response is to be found within the FBI’s JFK HQ File, 62-109060, specifically in this instance serial number 3942. The curious thing about this serial, when you look it up, is that you find it has been withheld under that good-old catch all “…referred to another agency and is in a pending status” the agency in this instance being the CIA [link for this specific serial is: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=62381#relPageId=125 However, what I think may be a key in helping you to unravel/answer some of your questions can be found in a statement made by Rankin in this correspondence of May 20, 1964, on the last page of this three page letter to wit: “Some of this information may have been set forth in your various reports; however, we would like a complete answer to this request set forth in a separate, self-contained report.” To me this statement is indicative or indicates that the “complete answer” as represented by CE 2011 has no individual author but rather is comprised of information pulled from more than one of the FBI “bulky file” reports generated by/compiled by Dallas FO SA Robert Gemberling. I do not have the time to look these up but it I am correct, a search of the Gemberling compiling’s – and there are more than one and some run to hundreds of pages – could just possibly contain the “interviews” that you seek. If I am correct in this assessment, that would mean numerous reports potentially generated by numerous FBI field agents. This of course represents a particularly onerous task but who knows – I may be wrong. FWIW Gary Murr

Hi Pat: Having taken a self-induced sabbatical from aspects of the JFK assassination I was shocked to hear of your battle will cancer. Having lost half of my family to this disease, I can understand what you are going through. I have always had the greatest respect for your research and appreciate the time I spent with you at various Lancer conferences in the past. All the best, get well soon... Gary

Hey Bill: Probably old news to you, but as the link below indicates, though the FBI and WC discussed this subject matter in late January, 1964, note that the FBI did not return these materials to Ruth until late April, 1964. FWIW https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=9988#relPageId=117&search=SULLIVAN_BRANNIGAN RUTH PAINE METAL CABINET

This is indeed sad news. I had the pleasure of meeting Gerald at Harold Weisberg's home during one of my excursions to the National Archives in the late 1990's. To echo sentiments previously mentioned in this thread, "Breach Of Trust" will long stand as one of the great works dealing with the Warren Commission. RIP