Ron Bulman

I don't know some of those in your top 10 Cliff. These may not be on anybody's top 10 but close in my thoughts. The first had a pretty short career. Janis Joplin, Ann and Nancy Wilson of Heart, and Grace Slick of the Jefferson Airplane/Starship. Just off the top of my head, too.

In the first photo the large red circle is of the Lew Sterrett jail. I've visited a friend there many years ago. The second smaller circle was the county jail in 1963, where Oswald would have been taken when charged per normal procedure. LHO may well have been in better security there, given they kept Ruby alive until he died, of cancer. But Sheriff Decker didn't really want him in the first place.

Well said Stu, imho.

W Niederhut, who I've considered a friend for some time now. I was kidding him about having attended the same university as Hunt.

So, W was an associate of Hunt?

Now that's downright funny. Mahomes as Ruby, Taylor Swift as Babushka lady. Though the JFKA is not a parlor game, a little levity is needed.

Glad you feel that way. I do too. The Angleton - Laffite direct connection is very interesting. I know it is a result of George Hunter White's recommendation to Gottlieb and JJA. I still find GHW tripping with JJA in the 1950's fascinating. I know I've used this video in another thread recently, but it seems appropriate. https://youtu.be/OJBQwOIMzDQ

I'm stumped. I thought I'd read of the title of this book, but never anything about it. So I went to Amazon, 4.3 on 165 ratings, a couple of the reviews I read mention it being great for beginners. In the Amazon description this is what stumped me: Includes the document of Jack Ruby admitting to Dallas County Police (while in Dallas County Records Building/Asst. District Attorney Office) on 11/21/63, 'You probably don't know me now, but you will.' I thought, I remember reading this, but where? I thought again maybe Crossfire? I could find nothing in it. So, I googled the term, Jack Ruby and Kennedy assassination. Nothing other than, there it is in the Wikipedia description of JR, under November 21. A number of Dallas police officers were meeting in the office of Assistant District Attorney Ben Ellis when Ruby entered and passed out business cards advertising a gig by Jada, a stripper at the Carousel. According to Lt. W. F. Dyson, Ruby introduced himself to Ellis and added: "You probably don't know me now, but you will." Ah ha! I went back to the index of Crossfire and found Starvis Ellis but not Bill Ellis. But Dyson equaled bingo! Pg. 370. On the day before Kennedy's assassination . . . in the Dallas County District Attorney's Office. One officer, Dallas Police lieutenant W.F. Dyson, later told the Warren Commission that it was here that he and other officers encountered a short, stocky nightclub owner who was going out of his way to make their acquaintance. Dyson overheard this man - Jack Ruby - tell the officers, "You probably don't know me, but you will". I still thought I'd read something more, maybe about why he was at the police HQ. I don't think it would address this but the fact Dyson's statement was to the WC was intriguing. The Wikipedia quote is refenced in their end notes to "Chapter 6: Investigation of Possible Conspiracy". Report of the President's Commission on the Assassination of President John F. Kennedy. Washington, D.C.: United States Government Printing Office. 1964. I don't see it there under Ruby's activities from November 21 through November 24, 1963 (they start with the evening of 11/21. Jim's name is on this list, but Dyson's is not. JFK Asaassination witness page (jfk-assassination.net). Nor is it on this one John F. Kennedy Assassination Homepage :: Warren Commission :: Testimony Index (jfk-assassination.eu). Why was JR in the DPD HQ the day before the assassination in the first place? Much less ingratiating himself with DPD Officers, not just patrolmen, and bragging, "You probably don't know me now, but you will." I know I should stay away from the brainstorming process, but. Was he there for a private meeting with say Westbrook (who was at the TT), excited about his potential role - in some capacity - and perceived (positive?) coming fame. IDK.

I don't know Bill, I think they were both patsy's. Oswald declared it to the world, he probably already knew he was doomed but that probably sealed the deal. He was most likely intended to have already been silenced and sacrificed. Ruby confessed somewhat indiscreetly, they knew he was mob enough to know what would happen to him and possible accidents for family members if he talked too loudly. They knew (with help) they could probably keep him under control in jail at the sheriff's office. Regarding Applin I wondered, where did I read that originally? Surely not as far back as Crossfire? Yep! Pg. 342. ", told the Commission he was watching the movie when the lights came on and a policeman with a rifle or shotgun began moving down his aisle. Applin said he was sitting in the downstairs middle aisle about six rows from the back when the commotion began. He moved down the aisle to ask what was going on, . . . Applin then witnessed Oswald's arrest. At the close of his Warren Commission testimony, Applin said: But, there is this one thing puzzling me . . . there was one guy sitting in the back row right where I was standing at, and I said to him, I said "Buddy, you'd better move. There is a gun." And he says- just sat there. . . . Just watching (then) just looking at me. Applin told Commision attorney Joseph Ball twice he didn't know the man but in 1979, he told a news reporter that two days later, following the Oswald slaying, he recognized the man as Jack Ruby. Applin told the Dallas Morning News: At the time the Warren Commission had me down there at the Post Office in Dallas to get my statement, "I was afraid to give it. I gave everything up to the point OF WHAT I GAVE THE POLICE IN TOWN" . . . " *** . . . I'm a pretty nervous guy anyway . . . it just kind of made me keep a low profile . . . [Jack} Ruby was sitting down, just watching them. And when Oswald pulled the gun . . . that's when I tapped him on the shoulder and told him he had better move because the guns were waving around. He just turned around and looked at me. Then he turned around and started watching them." *** So, he told the DPD, after Oswald was assassinated by Ruby that he'd seen Ruby watching Oswald's arrest in the Texas Theater? Then he told the Warren Omission . . . one thing puzzling me.

Great concise video Gil.

Not to get into RFKJR's politics in any way. But to note Ceasar reportedly died 9/13/19, and to note Dan Moldea was his agent, they requesting $25,000 for a meeting/interview with him.

I think it is interesting in 1963 Phelan wrote a favorable article on Garrison's cleaning up the seamier side of the French Quarter then coming back during the Shaw trial to pillory him.

I just went back and listened to the last half of part 3. Notes from the 1st half. 1:00 13 bullets. 2:28 Diagram, pigs ears. 13:30 Insanity, his lawyers. 24:00 Death threats. 25:00 MKULTRA, Artichoke, Bluebird. I never knew the last was in conjunction with the Navy. I.E. the ONI, also the Marine Corps intelligence agency. Implications? From the second half. 31:30 John Meier's son, Angleton and Maheu talked on the phone all the time. 37:45 Researching testimony in the Sirhan trial at the California State Archives, pages missing. Found in the State Supreme Court archives, all relate to hypnosis. 50:30 Dr. Dan Brown (RIP), Sirhan, the polka dot dress girl, range mode.

Re-reading the above made me remember Ruby in Vegas 3-4 days before the assassination. Per Larry Hancock's Tipping Point, two separate informants', one for the sheriff's department, one for the FBI. Seen at the hotel Roselli was famous for helping develop, had the parking concession and rights to run the gift shop and was in charge of booking acts, for a commission. I think it was the Tropicana, from memory. Using the name of Lewis McWillie as a reference to cash a check. Then when he gets back to Dallas tells his lawyer he could soon pay off his back taxes. Makes a large cash bank deposit. Something about getting a new apartment in Turtle Creek. All that and my first post make me wonder. But, going off the deep end here, a brainstorm, speculation makes me ask questions. If Alpin was being truthful in his later life claim, that he recognized Ruby on television as a person he had seen and spoken to in the Texas Theater. If he was told by a member of the Dallas Police Department to never mention this and was in fear of his safety given other witnesses intimidation and more in some cases. Why would Ruby have been in the Texas Theater, sitting down, observing (one) Oswald's arrest? Was he the contact Oswald was looking for? Was he supposed to kill Oswald there?

Maybe, maybe not of the assassination itself, but I personally have come to think over the years he knew something was going to happen. For me this started with one of the first books I read on the JFKA. Seth Kantor's The Ruby Cover-Up. Ruby tugging on Seths' coat, asking "have you heard anything?' at Parkland. As they knew each other I thought, hmm. Why was JR there, wanting to know, for himself or others? But the Warren Omission believed the strip club owner over the national reporter. Then a few years back I read about Ruby asking an FBI informant I believe, if he wanted to go see the "Fireworks". I know, the official story is he was at the Dallas Morning News, hanging around regarding his clubs newspaper ad. The informant said Ruby came to a nearby attorney's office and asked them if they wanted to go see the fireworks. The attorney declined. Ruby and the informant went to the corner of Commerce and Houston, across Dealy Plaza from the parade and watched it. Immediately after Ruby headed back towards the Dallas Morning News. Then I read yesterday something I'd forgotten. George Alpin, a witness at the Texas Theater, questioned by the WC, said years later he saw JR there in the seats observing the arrest of Oswald, advising him to move back as they had guns. Ruby ignored him. He didn't report this for years fearing his own safety, was told originally by a DPD officer never to mention it. More thoughts on this later. Last, for tonight as to all in the same day. We have JR standing on a table, pen and pad in hand, (gun in his pocket-he said so) claiming to be a Jewish reporter, at the showing to the press of Oswald yelling , correcting "Henry, (Wade-DA) That's the Fair Play For Cuba Committee."

Thanks for this Robert. It's great to see something like this in the MSM. Not that many people in the US, much less the world realize the last part, about the Soviet tactical nuke's already in Cuba, nor the commander's authorization to use them. Many, in the last 20-30 years, still not enough (it's certainly not in the history books), myself included, have come to realize if we had invaded Cuba or even just done a surgical strike of the missile sites, Nuclear War with the USSR might well have ensued. Most of that many realize JFK's blockade avoided the closest we came to that in the history of the Cold War, a scarry time for all concerned indeed. I think fewer still though know about the tactical nukes. If we had invaded these would have destroyed our forces. We would have reacted, the Soviets would have reacted. So we might say JFK saved us twice in one action.

That's a good concise summary on some of the theories, imho. I'm not an attorney like you, regarding legal aspects. Regarding theories in general since JFK, many here have probably already seen this, I had not until tonight. The film Conspiracy Theory starring (of all people) Mel Gibson and Julia Roberts from 1997. Gibson as a freaked-out creature of MKULTRA (mentioned), he tries to explain it to Justice Department lawyer Roberts. Patrick Stewart seems a combination of Allen Dulles and Sidney Gottlieb. Whoever wrote this knows a bit about the CIA/JFKA. Yes, it's drama, a little comedic, but somewhat historically based in fact. Maybe Mel Gibson's best performance?

Opinion: Democratic and Republican elites fear RFK Jr.’s growing path to victory (msn.com)

I'd read about Laffite, Phelan and ? burglarizing Garrison's office for files in the Clay Shaw/Bertrand trial. But I'd never thought about Garrison possibly dining on Pierre's tasty delights at Shaw's New Orleans Trade Mart's Plimsol Club. Complimented on by Ladybird Johnson. New Orleans brought this song to mind, though I've never been there. https://youtu.be/agmXzGnR3LA

I find it very interesting CIA Technical Services Director, head of MKULTRA Sidney Gottlieb and Pierre Laffite were both in the Congo immediately before the assassination of Lumumba, the latter possibly until it (?). It seems likely pursuing such from different tact's. Gottlieb's trip and lead up to it is detailed in Stephen Kinzer's Poisoner In Chief, pgs. 175-180. To summarize. On August 18, 1960, Dulles visited Eisenhower, who said Lumumba should be eliminated. Gottlieb decided on botulinum (e.g. botulism, from improperly canned food). He developed a concentrated version that would kill in a few hours, along with a delivery system (a very fine needle, gloves, mask). He then personally delivered it to the CIA station chief in the Congo. And instructed him on the use of it, so the chief could instruct an agent who reputedly had contact with Lumumba could be taught to. This effort failed. There is much more detail to this in the book, which is documented. From A Terrible Mistake by Hank Albarelli, pgs. 430-432. "Said James Phelan of Laffite, he used dozens of different names - and occupations . . . Years later he sent me a birthday card from the Belgium Congo - where he was engaged in God knows what. . . . Phelan's Belgian Congo line was a crafty citation. What the investigative reporter did not mention was that Laffite was in the Congo at the very same time the CIA had slated Patrice Lumumba for assassination, a fact that surely di not escape Phelan's notice. Was Laffite the never-identified CIA assassin WI?ROUGE? It appears that he could have been, or at the very least, that he was quite close to QJ/WIN and QJ/Rouge. . . . When James Phelan revealed that Laffite had spent time in the Belgian Congo nobody seemed to notice that it had been at the same time that Patrice Lumumba was killed." A 1957 song about the Congo, by a man I've met.

I almost quit reading with Oswald was on the sixth floor. But you had already mentioned an AR-15 bullet. That was the ah-hah moment, I kept reading to see if my suspicions were true. When I read this I thought, yep. Spoiler alert: there were two other shooters, both Secret Service agents. One did nothing more than fire a warning shot or two to alert his fellow agents to the danger. The other was handling a defective AR-15 prone to slam fire discharge, and when the gun went off, it just happened to be pointed at the President's head. It seems too incredible to believe, but that is exactly what happened. Two Secret Service Agents, that's new for me (that one fired warning shot(s) to alert the other agents). So, I scanned the rest of the article and there they were. SSA Hickey and author Menninger, I won't grace this post with the name of his piece of junk book. You do know Hickey sued St. Martin's Press and Menninger and won? Hickey v. St. Martin's Press, Inc., 978 F. Supp. 230 | Casetext Search + Citator This has been discussed in some detail on the forum here, for your reference.

Sorry for my musical proclivity. Maybe, I'll be your Capitan, as the Capitan is feeling mighty sick?

I'd like to say. I know we have a separate topic on RFK. I think if we keep his son and politics out of it, this thread should be sustained, as others on such have been moved, for good reason. That said, here is a very informative thread on the subject. I'll start it out with a quote from I believe, a friend. Gene Kelly Members 1k Gender:Male Location:Philadelphia PA Interests:Basketball, gardening, reading, grandkids and family. Posted December 28, 2018 · IP I got the book for Christmas and am reading ... Lisa is a great researcher and investigator, and ties many points together in a credible manner. I've read quite a bit about RFK and all the loose ends - and many good authors that preceded her - but Lisa puts another dimension onto the story. Like getting a graduate education in the story. Its actually quite sad, almost depressing, to understand what happened to RFK and our country in June 1968. I had just graduated from high school, and there was great hope that Bobby would lead the country out of the mess that was Vietnam, widespread racial tensions and questionable politicians. He seemed a candidate of the people (all people) and someone who had moral courage and would put the country on the right path. What a loss ... and then we got Ricard Nixon for the next 6 years. It breaks my heart to read about what happened to him, and how brazen and brash the plotters were, including the coverup and intimidation for years to come. Many of my age and era lost faith in politics, government, and the ability to effect change. Not sure the country ever quite recovered. Here is the thread link.

I always believe you Steve, but that's almost unbelievable such a dumbass would say such. Kind of sickening.