The Warren Commission Didn't Believe Seth Kantor Ran Into Jack Ruby At Parkland on 11, 22,1963?

[Joe Bauer]

I strongly recommend reading Seth Kantor's Warren Commission testimony to anyone here who may want to know more about the Parkland hospital meet up of Kantor and Jack Ruby the afternoon of 11,22,1963.

Kantor himself was a very interesting person and a respected Scripps/Howard reporter who was "right there on scene" in all the most dramatic and important events of that weekend involving JFK and Jack Ruby.

Kantor was in the Dallas presidential motorcade while the assassination of JFK occurred.

Kantor was in the DPD room when Dallas D.A. Henry Wade gave his first press conference there. The same room that Jack Ruby was in and where he ( Ruby ) gave an impromptu correction shout-out to Wade.

Kantor was in the Dallas Police Department parking garage when Ruby shot Oswald - just feet away!

Kantor even interviewed Ruth Paine in her home just 10 days or so after 11,22,1963!

Kantor was interviewed by the controversial background FBI agent Vincent Drain whom Kantor personally knew.

Kantor was one of the most well versed and well spoken WC testimonial interviewees.

His entire testimony was extremely coherent and his manner extremely professional, calm, thorough and respectful to his questioners Burt W. Griffin and Leon D. Hubert Jr.

In my opinion Kantor's interviewers were trying very hard to find something ( anything ) they could to try to weaken the credibility of Kantor's claim that he ( Kantor ) actually met Jack Ruby at Parkland and engaged him in conversation while JFK was being treated there.

Yet, they failed.

Kantor even reported his meeting Ruby at Parkland that day in a widely distributed Scripps/Howard news article he wrote just a few days after 11,22,1963.

Another fascinating side story Kantor mentioned in his WC testimony was witnessing the later famous national news reporter Ike Pappas witnessing Jack Ruby approach Wade personally ( and whom Ruby engaged in conversation with ) right after Wade's late night news conference and Pappas remarking to Wade how it looked to him (Pappas) that he (Wade) knew Jack Ruby.

Kantor's WC questioners seemed fixated on trying to find something to trip up Kantor regards his report of meeting Ruby at Parkland the afternoon of 11,22,1963.

An effort which produced not one bit of credibility questioning validity at all.

Kantor, like the professional journalist he was, kept thorough notes.

Kantor also kept his calm, professional manner cool the entire WC interview time.

I sensed both of Kantor's WC questioners were frustrated in their failed effort to find something to shake Kantor's Parkland hospital Jack Ruby meet up account.

The Kantor WC testimony account is one of my favorites. The man was "right there" in all the most dramatic Dallas event happenings that entire weekend.

And his recounting of them are a fascinating, well spoken read.

Edited March 30, 2023 by Joe Bauer

[Larry Hancock]

Seth Kantor had a number of equally important things to say about Jack Ruby ....his book is mandatory reading on this subject:

https://www.amazon.com/Ruby-Cover-Up-S-Kantor/dp/0821739204/ref=sr_1_3?qid=1680130266&refinements=p_27%3ASeth+Kantor&s=books&sr=1-3

 

[Gerry Down]

On 6/10/2019 at 6:29 AM, Joe Bauer said:

Representative FORD. It has been alleged that you went out to Parkland Hospital. 
Mr. RUBY. No; I didn't go there. They tried to ask me. My sisters asked me. Some people told my sister that you were there. I am of sound mind. I never went there. Everything that transpired during the tragedy, I was at the Morning News Building. 
Congressman FORD. You didn't go out there subsequent to the assassination? 
Mr. RUBY. No; in other words, like somebody is trying to make me something of a martyr in that case. No; I never did. Does this conflict with my story and yours in great length? 
Mr. MOORE. Substantially the same, Jack, as well as I remember. 

This is a bold denial by Ruby considering this was just 1964 and photos and or footage could yet emerge showing Ruby was at Parkland hospital. Seth Kantor was a reporter so there were alot of people there with cameras at the time Ruby is alleged to have been there with Kantor.

Ruby would be running a serious risk of perjury if he indeed had been at Parkland hospital but was telling the WC he was not there.

[Bob Ness]

In case you haven't seen it:

 

This is Kantor's contemporaneous affidavit dated 12/4/1963 given to the DPD. Pretty clear to me. Not certain if I have page two or not.

Edited March 30, 2023 by Bob Ness

[Joe Bauer]

On 3/29/2023 at 6:36 PM, Bob Ness said:

In case you haven't seen it:

 

This is Kantor's contemporaneous affidavit dated 12/4/1963 given to the DPD. Pretty clear to me. Not certain if I have page two or not.

Thank you Bob Ness.

Kantor was stating his meet up with Ruby at Parkland around 1:30 pm on 11,22,1963 in official affidavits starting just 10 days after Ruby shot Oswald.

How could the Warren Commission think they could get away with their illogical discrediting attempt of highly respected Scripps Howard journalist Kantor and his Ruby meet up at Parkland statements like they did?

There must have been great panic on their part regards Ruby being at Parkland when Kantor stated he ( Ruby) was there.

And as far as pictures of Ruby at Parkland...I don't recall hardly any pics of people once they entered the ER area and other parts of the hospital...do you?

Don't recall seeing any of Kantor there.

I am sure security clamped down extremely hard on any reporters who may have breached the inner corridors and were trying to take pictures.

 

Edited April 4, 2023 by Joe Bauer

[Bob Ness]

1 hour ago, Joe Bauer said:

How could the Warren Commission think they could get away with their laughingly illogical discrediting attempt of highly respected Scripps Howard journalist Kantor and his Ruby meet up at Parkland statements like they did?

SOP it seems. Not the only time they shifted stuff around to confirm their theories. The entire "investigation" was a clown show.

1 hour ago, Joe Bauer said:

And as far as pictures of Ruby at Parkland...I don't recall hardly any pics of people once they entered the ER area and other parts of the hospital...do you?

No but I haven't looked at it very hard. I would think we'd know about it if so.

[K K Lane]

Here's the text of the second page of Seth Kantor's affidavit.   An image is available at:

https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth339044/m1/3/

--------------------------------------

"is terrible.   Should I close my places for three days."   He appeared to be
very upset.   I told him I thought he should, but did not continue the 
conversation.

That was the only time I saw Jack Ruby during the period of Friday, November
22, 1963 until the moment of the shot in the basement on Sunday, November
24, 1963.

[Joe Bauer]

On 3/29/2023 at 11:52 PM, K K Lane said:

Here's the text of the second page of Seth Kantor's affidavit.   An image is available at:

https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth339044/m1/3/

--------------------------------------

"is terrible.   Should I close my places for three days."   He appeared to be
very upset.   I told him I thought he should, but did not continue the 
conversation.

That was the only time I saw Jack Ruby during the period of Friday, November
22, 1963 until the moment of the shot in the basement on Sunday, November
24, 1963.

Thank you K.K. Lane.

It is SO OBVIOUS that Kantor was telling the WC the truth about Ruby's presence at Parkland hospital around 1:30 PM the day of 11,22,1963.

Kantor's professional and personal credibility was provenly very high and strong.

Compared to Jack Ruby's ... stellar.

The question is...why?

Why would the WC in their final report claim highly credible, respected and experienced and mentally stable journalist Seth Kantor was mistaken ( through some over-worked up mental state? ) about meeting Ruby at Parkland that afternoon...and emotionally and mentally damaged ( and Mafia connected if even occasional - Lewis McWillie ) Jack Ruby wasn't?

In my opinion, because Ruby's presence at Parkland would open up enormously suspicious contradictions in Ruby's account of his full actions that afternoon and in the least expose his blatantly ly*** about them.

 

 

Edited March 31, 2023 by Joe Bauer

[Greg Doudna]

18 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

Thank you K.K. Lane.

It is SO OBVIOUS that Kantor was telling the WC the truth about Ruby's presence at Parkland hospital around 1:30 PM the day of 11,22,1963.

Kantor's professional and personal credibility was provenly very high and strong.

The question is...why?

Why would the WC in their final report claim highly respected and experienced journalist Seth Kantor was mistaken ( through some over-worked up mental state? ) about meeting Ruby at Parkland that afternoon...and emotionally and mentally damaged ( and Mafia connected if even slight - Louis McWillie ) Jack Ruby wasn't?

Or, that he ( Ruby ) was just flat out L****?

In my opinion, because Ruby's presence at Parkland would open up enormously suspicious contradictions in Ruby's account of his full actions that afternoon and in the least expose his blatantly*** about them.

Right Joe. Kantor clearly is more credible than Ruby. Another odd thing is that Ruby’s dancer Joy Dale (Joyce McDonald), pregnant and according to dancer Little Lynn the gossip was Ruby was the biological father, was also at Parkland Hospital at the same time.

Joyce McDonald (Joy Dale) said she took her child to Parkland Hospital Nov 22 for an eye checkup appointment, went there by bus. Then, she says she went by bus again not to home but to the Carousel Club where she met Jack Ruby around 3 pm, becoming an early witness to how distraught Ruby was over the impact of the assassination on Jackie and Caroline.

Two days later, on Sunday, she gave a radio interview telling of how good Ruby had been to her friend Larry Craford (who had just quit his employment by Ruby with no notice and hightailed it out of Dallas precipitously the previous morning).

Ruby, who had just murdered Oswald that morning in cold blood out of allegedly being overcome by passion for the wrong Oswald had done to Jackie and Caroline, that afternoon when questioned in custody told the FBI from memory the very street address in Oak Cliff where Tippit’s cruiser had stopped when Tippit was killed, as the street home address of Joy Dale, who in fact lived elsewhere in Oak Cliff. What kind of freak mistake was that? Joe, don’t let me down—give a narrative explanation (you’re a good writer). 🙂 

Edited March 31, 2023 by Greg Doudna

[Joe Bauer]

On 3/30/2023 at 9:18 AM, Greg Doudna said:

Joe, don’t let me down—give a narrative explanation (you’re a good writer). 🙂 

Thanks GD...but anyone can see I am not a good writer at all.

Especially compared to the 50 great writers on this forum. Some with best selling books to their credit!

McBride, Di Eugenio, etc.

By the way, much of my Ruby/Oswald/Kantor postings are grounded in Jim Di Eugenio's excellent essay at his "Kennedys And King" site titled "The Ruby Connection."

Highly recommend reading this as it is chock full of much, much more in-depth information regards Ruby and his connections to the Dallas Police Department, the Dallas District Attorney office ( especially assistant D.A. Bill Alexander) and organized crime, Lewis McWillie and related Cuban activities.

Because Jack Ruby whacked Oswald and under the most suspiciously improbable circumstances one "has" to give him a lot of thought and scrutiny.

If he hadn't performed that world shaking deed, he would just be a quirky, eccentric side show story as Seth Kantor described him.

Ruby's ridiculously improbable access into that huge security presence DPD building basement right at that time of Oswald's almost wide-open presentation to the press crowd just feet away forces rational common sense thoughts of Ruby with major conspiracy consideration focus.

Jack Ruby was involved with more than stripper pay complaints and beating the tar out of drunk Carousel customers who got out of hand with their loud crude yelling, pounding on the runway and grabbing at stripper's ankles.

And we all now know for a fact that Ruby occasionally engaged with semi-big time Vegas and Havana Mafioso Lewis McWillie. Once even asked by McWillie to come down to Cuba where it's been reported that Ruby himself was tasked to visit Mafia Godfather Santos Trafficante in his Cuban jail with a message...or perhaps to pay off some official to secure Trafficante's release?

 

 

Edited April 4, 2023 by Joe Bauer

[Ron Bulman]

7 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

Jack Ruby was involved with more than stripper pay complaints and beating the tar out of drunk Carousel customers who got out of hand with their loud crude yelling, pounding on the catwalk and grabbing at stripper's ankles.

Yes he was.  Why was he in Vegas at Roselli's home casino 3 day's before the assassination.  Tipping Point, Larry the Hancock.  Why is he in Pierre Lafitte's day book? 

Don't let me down?  The bass player seems a little unenthused in the first part. 

 

Edited March 31, 2023 by Ron Bulman

[Joe Bauer]

And don't forget Ruby's jail house meeting with the famous Dorothy Kilgallen.

Whatever Ruby shared with Kilgallen, she came away from that meeting more charged up and determined than ever to "solve" the case.

Ruby must have given her some really intriguing info.

Made up...or not.

[Pamela Brown]

On 3/30/2023 at 10:26 PM, Joe Bauer said:

And don't forget Ruby's jail house meeting with the famous Dorothy Kilgallen.

Whatever Ruby shared with Kilgallen, she came away from that meeting more charged up and determined than ever to "solve" the case.

Ruby must have given her some really intriguing info.

Made up...or not.

I have to wonder if he clued her in about a possible "Jewish Mafia" connection to events surrounding the assassination and its cover-up...

[Joe Bauer]

1 hour ago, Pamela Brown said:

I have to wonder if he clued her in about a possible "Jewish Mafia" connection to events surrounding the assassination and its cover-up...

Whatever Ruby shared with Kilgallen, soon enough she told her hairdresser/confidant she had to make a trip to New Orleans which inspired enough fear in her she mentioned arming herself during it.

I believe Ruby more probably mentioned the Mafia and even the powerful Godfather Carlos Marcello to her.

And remember also that Ruby ended up with famed attorney Melvin Belli as his main legal counsel. His attorney through his trial.

You do know that Belli was considered ( or at least rumored) by many to be a Mafia connected attorney don't you?

I personally believe that connection meant a lot more to the Ruby story than is generally reported.

Edited April 2, 2023 by Joe Bauer

[Paul Brancato]

On 3/30/2023 at 9:18 AM, Greg Doudna said:

Right Joe. Kantor clearly is more credible than Ruby. Another odd thing is that Ruby’s dancer Joy Dale (Joyce McDonald), pregnant and according to dancer Little Lynn the gossip was Ruby was the biological father, was also at Parkland Hospital at the same time.

Joyce McDonald (Joy Dale) said she took her child to Parkland Hospital Nov 22 for an eye checkup appointment, went there by bus. Then, she says she went by bus again not to home but to the Carousel Club where she met Jack Ruby around 3 pm, becoming an early witness to how distraught Ruby was over the impact of the assassination on Jackie and Caroline.

Two days later, on Sunday, she gave a radio interview telling of how good Ruby had been to her friend Larry Craford (who had just quit his employment by Ruby with no notice and hightailed it out of Dallas precipitously the previous morning).

Ruby, who had just murdered Oswald that morning in cold blood out of allegedly being overcome by passion for the wrong Oswald had done to Jackie and Caroline, that afternoon when questioned in custody told the FBI from memory the very street address in Oak Cliff where Tippit’s cruiser had stopped when Tippit was killed, as the street home address of Joy Dale, who in fact lived elsewhere in Oak Cliff. What kind of freak mistake was that? Joe, don’t let me down—give a narrative explanation (you’re a good writer). 🙂 

Wow, that sure is suspicious. Could you put those pieces together in a narrative? It seems to me first of all that Joyce said all the right things to the press and authorities, a little too Pat. Was Ruby at the scene of the Tippit murder? I seem to remember one eyewitness who gave testimony about a pair of men at the scene, one fitting Ruby’s description. Did the other fit Crafard? My intuition is that Tippit knew too much and was the first of many to die for that reason, and that Oswald had nothing to do with it.