The inevitable end result of our last 56 years

[Bob Ness]

3 hours ago, Chris Barnard said:

Thanks - Great reply, you write well. 

I thought there would be a grey area on this. 

Thanks Chris. I try hahaha

[Bob Ness]

1 hour ago, Benjamin Cole said:

"Perhaps it's no big deal to Jeff Carter and our forum members across the pond that Trump was used by Putin to actualize the "Gerasimov Doctrine" -- to fracture U.S. society along racial and cultural fault lines.  It worked!---W.

I wonder if it was Russians who carefully and skillfully played US media to make the Rittenhouse story a race story. 

Were the Russians were behind Jussie Smollett? Interesting question. 

I think the back story was the "race story" not the Rittenhouse malarky itself. Doesn't mean people read that in but I never got the feeling race was the major issue there except when he was gallivanting around with racist groups.

[Benjamin Cole]

4 hours ago, Chris Barnard said:

Suddenly the heat is on after daring to question the dreaded C narrative. How did he get cured so fast? Reputation destruction in full swing. 
 

 

Chris B. --

The way the mass media is demonizing and calling for censoring Joe Rogan is...spooky.

On COVID-19, I think the vaccines are fine, and should be free, but only for those who want them. After the elderly were voluntarily vaccinated I thought the fight was done. 

I do not understand the forced vaccination of children, who face extremely small risks from C19, nor the endless travel bans, vaccination police, lockdowns, etc. 

The reasonable balance has been lost...a parallel is letting the national security guys determine military sending and posture. 

BTW, I strongly suspect the Wuhan virus resulted from a lab leak. I put the odds at 10-1.

But...the lab leak was a debunked conspiracy theory. Right? 

Now, the same guys who "debunked" the Wuhan lab leak want me to believe...you name it. Sorry, the trust is gone. 

 

[Jeff Carter]

2 hours ago, Bob Ness said:

She should have been raped after dressing in a bikini. Something like that, Jeff? You have a strange way of making victims. The perpetrators should be victimized? The victims are the real perpetrators?

Bob - can you explain exactly how a military-industrial complex responsible since 2003 for the deaths of almost a million persons and the displacement of a staggering 38 million persons is in fact the victim, because a radical journalistic project called Wikileaks was formed to assist in exposing the obvious crimes committed by an unaccountable elite in this specific situation?

2 hours ago, Bob Ness said:

The Pentagon, CIA and DNC are organizations that us US citizens entrust (no matter what your or my opinion of them is) to engage in our defense (by extension Canada and Europe too!!) and political concerns (DNC) for the purpose of furthering our society...

Wikileaks and it's members are not part of what has been assembled to inspect and oversee the performance of those institutions. 

Bob - do you think the “institutions” which have been “assembled to inspect and oversee”  have been successful in light of the physical displacement of 38 million people since 2003? What exactly accomplishes the “earnest desire to right wrongs” done “properly”? Does that involve the NY Times and The Washington Post? So Assange is “problematic” - should he then be condemned to spend the rest of his life in a U.S. SuperMax prison?  Please explain.

[Kirk Gallaway]

2 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Chris B. --

The way the mass media is demonizing and calling for censoring Joe Rogan is...spooky.

On COVID-19, I think the vaccines are fine, and should be free, but only for those who want them. After the elderly were voluntarily vaccinated I thought the fight was done. 

I do not understand the forced vaccination of children, who face extremely small risks from C19, nor the endless travel bans, vaccination police, lockdowns, etc. 

The reasonable balance has been lost...a parallel is letting the national security guys determine military sending and posture. 

BTW, I strongly suspect the Wuhan virus resulted from a lab leak. I put the odds at 10-1.

But...the lab leak was a debunked conspiracy theory. Right? 

Now, the same guys who "debunked" the Wuhan lab leak want me to believe...you name it. Sorry, the trust is gone. 

 

Well That's fascinating Ben, as usual. What new diatribes can you entertain us with?

Oh yeah, produce one article from somebody and say the entire MSM is going after Joe Rogan. What a twitter world we live in now.

Ben:After the elderly were voluntarily vaccinated I thought the fight was done. 

Yes apparently you were wrong.

Ben:I do not understand the forced vaccination of children, who face extremely small risks from C19, nor the endless travel bans, vaccination police, lockdowns, etc. 

So is this angst about  more lockdowns in the U.K. Ben.?

You know I've checked out ex pat boards and one thing that seems more overwhelming in the last year is the number of dismayed people, largely from some well off backgrounds, often in Europe,  who aren't content where they are who  despite all the turmoil they hear about in the U.S. think their life will somehow transform if they could only get to the U.S.!

So we're kind of in a place where we can be picky and choosy. Personally if it was up to me, I wouldn't have any unvaccinated people entering the U.S. Why do we need to take any chances? And Ben, being old, I'm afraid you'd need a booster. And I can feel how you're sick and tired you are of that "jab" thing. 

But I do sympathize with people who want a new life.  You could take your chances going over our southern border you're always so concerned about. But I warn you, you'd have to compete with a much younger more able bodied population to get through down there. And maybe just as well, because we don't really need any more retirees. Still, you're welcome to try!

 

Kind of like the Squid Games

 

 

heh heh

Edited December 14, 2021 by Kirk Gallaway

[Benjamin Cole]

19 minutes ago, Jeff Carter said:

Bob - can you explain exactly how a military-industrial complex responsible since 2003 for the deaths of almost a million persons and the displacement of a staggering 38 million persons is in fact the victim, because a radical journalistic project called Wikileaks was formed to assist in exposing the obvious crimes committed by an unaccountable elite in this specific situation?

Bob - do you think the “institutions” which have been “assembled to inspect and oversee”  have been successful in light of the physical displacement of 38 million people since 2003? What exactly accomplishes the “earnest desire to right wrongs” done “properly”? Does that involve the NY Times and The Washington Post? So Assange is “problematic” - should he then be condemned to spend the rest of his life in a U.S. SuperMax prison?  Please explain.

Jeff Carter can more than handle his own, but I gotta say he is more than right on this issue. 

Whatever your partisan leanings, the national security state has about 1,000 times the influence to stage and manipulate events, and control subsequent media coverage, than the Trumpers ever had. 

Beyond that, the DoD budget is $715 billion, the VA budget is $270 billion, the DHS budget is $90 billion, and the black budget maybe $100 billion. Total $1.175 trillion. 

Dudes, you are barking up the wrong tree, and a bonsai tree in a redwood forest, if you think the Trumpers are the threat to America. 

Besides all that, there was no chance in hell some halfwits around Trump were going to stage a coup, and zero connections between those halfwits and the halfwits who occupied the Capitol.  

But there are clues that there were federal instigators in the crowd on 1/6.

Trump will gone soon enough. The national security state, on the other hand.... 

 

[Bob Ness]

32 minutes ago, Jeff Carter said:

Bob - can you explain exactly how a military-industrial complex responsible since 2003 for the deaths of almost a million persons and the displacement of a staggering 38 million persons is in fact the victim, because a radical journalistic project called Wikileaks was formed to assist in exposing the obvious crimes committed by an unaccountable elite in this specific situation?

Yes. Because the MIC you're talking about has the legal authority given by the citizens of the United States of America to classify information and withhold it from public view .on national security grounds. That makes them and by extension the people of the United States, it's allies, any other entity whose information was exposed and individuals whose identities were revealed without their permission "victims". Larding your comments with ridiculous hyperbole and faux shock about the aftermath of those events implies to me that you, Wikileaks and Helen Keller were the only people who didn't know what was going on until WikiLeaks had their "epiphany". 

The MIC and people who agree with them would no doubt say that the WikiLeaks disclosures set back the efforts of the allies to unencomber the people of Iraq and Afghanistan of brutal rulers who themselves have slaughtered and tortured their own ken and those of their neighbors. I'm not saying that is or isn't the case but if true the numbers you cite include WikiLeaks contribution to the mess. In some minds that case can be made and neither you or I are the arbiters of that although we can have our opinions.

1 hour ago, Jeff Carter said:

Bob - do you think the “institutions” which have been “assembled to inspect and oversee”  have been successful in light of the physical displacement of 38 million people since 2003? What exactly accomplishes the “earnest desire to right wrongs” done “properly”? Does that involve the NY Times and The Washington Post? So Assange is “problematic” - should he then be condemned to spend the rest of his life in a U.S. SuperMax prison?  Please explain.

Please explain how you sentenced him to life in prison already? A tad premature I'd say.

I've certainly been aware of quite a bit of the ridiculous mess that was made and quite a few other things as well. In fact I knew it would happen before we went into Iraq and had sources in Syria as well. What's stupifying to me is how anyone doesn't know that military operations like the Iraq invasion results  in several times the casualties in the civilian population than in the armed forces and combatants. WikiLeaks  contribution to the world would have been multiplied several times over if they had taken off their hacker hat's and put on their lawyer hat's. As I said before they could have protected their sources and the information and still made their disclosures. They were careless and have made it worse for the one million dead and 23 million displaced unfortunates. It's truly very sad.

 

[Benjamin Cole]

These show is pretty good. Addresses the national security state war on Julian Assange, aided and abetted by MSNBC.....

[W. Niederhut]

Well, it has been another disastrous week at the Education Forum for Ben and Jeff-- our resident January 6th Coup and Russia-gate deniers.* 🤥

But, at least, Ben and Jeff have each other-- to help ignore and dodge rebuttals, while re-posting their own bunk.

Ben's "uncoordinated scrum" at the Capitol on January 6th has turned out to be a PowerPoint organized plot involving Trump's Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, Steve Bannon's Willard Hotel goon squad, and Republican members of Congress!  So much for Trump's "No Coordination" meme.  We can file that with his, "No Collusion" jingle about Russia-gate.

And Jeff's beloved Durham Report has turned out to be another Bill Barr nothing burger to deflect attention from the damning Russia-gate evidence.   Unfortunately for the U.S., Trump was Putin's useful idiot.

*House Panel To ID Republican Lawmakers Newly Linked To Capitol Riot Turmoil

Information from Mark Meadows "has been quite revealing about members of Congress involved in the activities of January 6,” said Rep. Bennie Thompson.

 

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/bennie-thompson-gop-lawmakers-capitol-riot-identities_n_61b80c03e4b0490e9bd76868

[Guest]

“The greater our knowledge increases, the more our ignorance unfolds.”

John F. Kennedy 

[Guest]

10 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Chris B. --

The way the mass media is demonizing and calling for censoring Joe Rogan is...spooky.

On COVID-19, I think the vaccines are fine, and should be free, but only for those who want them. After the elderly were voluntarily vaccinated I thought the fight was done. 

I do not understand the forced vaccination of children, who face extremely small risks from C19, nor the endless travel bans, vaccination police, lockdowns, etc. 

The reasonable balance has been lost...a parallel is letting the national security guys determine military sending and posture. 

BTW, I strongly suspect the Wuhan virus resulted from a lab leak. I put the odds at 10-1.

But...the lab leak was a debunked conspiracy theory. Right? 

Now, the same guys who "debunked" the Wuhan lab leak want me to believe...you name it. Sorry, the trust is gone. 

 

Are they fine? We have multiple funeral directors in the UK posting videos about morgues that they are visiting full of still born babies. The UK government is carrying out enquiries on the lost pregnancies and stillborns . MSM is doing its best to cover up blood clots, heart attacks, myocarditis and other serious conditions. I would say there are at the very least, some very serious questions. We can talk VAERS and Yellow card systems and their efficiency too. 
 

The Rogan thing is obvious to me, he has a rocky road ahead. 
 

The lab leak is the dominant theory. But, people don’t like listening to scientists who are not on their side, it challenges their belief structures. 
 

FB is silent, as is Insta. Rumble & Telegram as well as alternative media are alive with this stuff. It’s absolutely shocking. 
 

Anyway, back to the cheery world of Dems vs Reps arguing. 🙂 

[Kirk Gallaway]

1 hour ago, W. Niederhut said:

Well, it has been another disastrous week at the Education Forum for Ben and Jeff-- our resident January 6th Coup and Russia-gate deniers.* 🤥

But, at least, Ben and Jeff have each other-- to help ignore and dodge rebuttals, while re-posting their own bunk.

Ben's "uncoordinated scrum" at the Capitol on January 6th has turned out to be a PowerPoint organized plot involving Trump's Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, Steve Bannon's Willard Hotel goon squad, and Republican members of Congress!  So much for Trump's "No Coordination" meme.  We can file that with his, "No Collusion" jingle about Russia-gate.

And Jeff's beloved Durham Report has turned out to be another Bill Barr nothing burger to deflect attention from the damning Russia-gate evidence.   Unfortunately for the U.S., Trump was Putin's useful idiot.

*House Panel To ID Republican Lawmakers Newly Linked To Capitol Riot Turmoil

Information from Mark Meadows "has been quite revealing about members of Congress involved in the activities of January 6,” said Rep. Bennie Thompson.

 

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/bennie-thompson-gop-lawmakers-capitol-riot-identities_n_61b80c03e4b0490e9bd76868

Exactly W.! while super sleuth Ben's most mentioned, 1/06 riots figure of of 2021,was Buffalo horns.

For us, we're transitioning from "scrum" to scrumptious. But expect Ben to keep pulling out his buffalo horns. To his tribe, It would be too humiliating to change course now.

 

Re: Assange You know I looked and come this spring, it will have been 10 years since Assange first started hiding in the Ecuadorian embassy. It would be interesting if there were any good journalists who weren't sycophants who could ask the question I would. "Did you really envision when you first took refuge, that you'd be confined for 10 years, and "Did you ever think of getting defiant and trying  to throw the state's case in their face against them?"

I assume he first  had visions of being a "privileged white  Mandela" martyr figure strolling around the embassy courtyard which could have some unique appeal to his followers. But then he ends up carrying water for what could have been the biggest First Amendment despot in our country's history. Nice Move!

I don't think Bob or Jeff really knows the case against Assange, but Bob knows he doesn't know. To Jeff it doesn't matter because there just couldn't be anything worth protecting. Just like Ben, who finds himself strange bedfellows with Dick Cheney, Richard Armitage and Scooter Libby. Try looking up Valerie Plame.

Edited December 14, 2021 by Kirk Gallaway

[Jeff Carter]

9 hours ago, Bob Ness said:

Yes. Because the MIC you're talking about has the legal authority given by the citizens of the United States of America to classify information and withhold it from public view .on national security grounds. That makes them and by extension the people of the United States, it's allies, any other entity whose information was exposed and individuals whose identities were revealed without their permission "victims". Larding your comments with ridiculous hyperbole and faux shock about the aftermath of those events implies to me that you, Wikileaks and Helen Keller were the only people who didn't know what was going on until WikiLeaks had their "epiphany". 

The MIC and people who agree with them would no doubt say that the WikiLeaks disclosures set back the efforts of the allies to unencomber the people of Iraq and Afghanistan of brutal rulers who themselves have slaughtered and tortured their own ken and those of their neighbors. I'm not saying that is or isn't the case but if true the numbers you cite include WikiLeaks contribution to the mess. In some minds that case can be made and neither you or I are the arbiters of that although we can have our opinions.

Please explain how you sentenced him to life in prison already? A tad premature I'd say.

I've certainly been aware of quite a bit of the ridiculous mess that was made and quite a few other things as well. In fact I knew it would happen before we went into Iraq and had sources in Syria as well. What's stupifying to me is how anyone doesn't know that military operations like the Iraq invasion results  in several times the casualties in the civilian population than in the armed forces and combatants. WikiLeaks  contribution to the world would have been multiplied several times over if they had taken off their hacker hat's and put on their lawyer hat's. As I said before they could have protected their sources and the information and still made their disclosures. They were careless and have made it worse for the one million dead and 23 million displaced unfortunates. It's truly very sad.

 

This response exemplifies a point-of-view known in much of the rest of the world as “American exceptionalism”. It features a psychological projection which fuses state institutions - such as the military and judiciary - with the individual, and weirdly embodies such institutions within the individual’s personal moral universe. I would never argue that Bob as a person would advocate war crimes, but as can be seen here he is capable of excusing or rationalizing or downplaying the incredibly destructive misuse of US military power as exhibited since 2003 as merely a “mess”.

Here are some obvious questions:

If the military-industrial-complex has “legal authority” from the citizens of USA and is in fact an “extension” of these citizens, then where does legal responsibility for the massive application of military violence since 2003 begin or end? The institutional response to the “Collateral Murder” video, leaked by Manning and published by Wikileaks, does not indicate that there is any responsibility at all.

In light of the documented record which shows that the attack on Iraq in 2003 (which began the events which led to the deaths of a million persons including hundreds of thousands of civilians) was the result of deliberate high-level decisions to repudiate the United Nations Charter and lie to both the people of the United States and the rest of the world to do so, how is it even possible to portray this as a (presumably) noble effort to “unencomber the people of Iraq and Afghanistan”? Note that few in Iraq or Afghanistan asked the U.S. to do this or had any say in the decision-making at all. Does “American exceptionalism” give legal authority to the United States to override international law and make extremely consequential unilateral decisions which results in widespread death and destruction?

It seems the answer to the preceding question must be “yes” in order to then assert that efforts to expose the extent and consequence of this unilateral application of military violence is the true crime and that the initiators and perpetrators of this very serious breach of international law are in fact the “victims” of this exposure.

How is it even possible that the exposure of the extent and consequence of the massive unilateral application of military violence could make things “worse” for the “unfortunate” millions of persons who have been killed, wounded, or displaced by the violence? Do you believe that the millions of persons negatively affected by this violence should rationalize their plight as something that is merely “sad” or just a “mess”? 

[Benjamin Cole]

6 hours ago, Chris Barnard said:

Are they fine? We have multiple funeral directors in the UK posting videos about morgues that they are visiting full of still born babies. The UK government is carrying out enquiries on the lost pregnancies and stillborns . MSM is doing its best to cover up blood clots, heart attacks, myocarditis and other serious conditions. I would say there are at the very least, some very serious questions. We can talk VAERS and Yellow card systems and their efficiency too. 
 

The Rogan thing is obvious to me, he has a rocky road ahead. 
 

The lab leak is the dominant theory. But, people don’t like listening to scientists who are not on their side, it challenges their belief structures. 
 

FB is silent, as is Insta. Rumble & Telegram as well as alternative media are alive with this stuff. It’s absolutely shocking. 
 

Anyway, back to the cheery world of Dems vs Reps arguing. 🙂 

"Anyway, back to the cheery world of Dems vs Reps arguing."--Chris B.

The purple with a hint of red vs. purple with a hint a blue. And some swirling. 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

"Anyway, back to the cheery world of Dems vs Reps arguing."--Chris B.

The purple with a hint of red vs. purple with a hint a blue. And some swirling. 

Exactly that. 🙂