Sirhan's pending parole - Kerry Kennedy speaks out

[Steve Roe]

On 9/15/2021 at 2:06 AM, James DiEugenio said:

It was not just Al.

The late Greg Stone also took apart Kranz.

Did Greg Stone mention Sirhan firing blanks, Mr. DiEugenio?

No, he would have laughed that off, and rightfully so. 

So, did Sirhan fire blanks? 

[Dennis Berube]

2 hours ago, Steve Roe said:

Oh, so Lowenstein destroyed the Kranz report.....really?

showDoc.html (maryferrell.org)

If your going to use the LAPD as though they are credible in this case, I think we are done here. 

[David Lifton]

On 9/11/2021 at 12:57 PM, Steve Roe said:

Yes, I have the Kindle version of Lisa Pease's book, "A lie too big to fail".  

No, it's not a new revelation of other shooters. Of course Thane Eugene Cesar is the most well known. But what Pease does is expand her fantasy to other shooters.

Here's a direct quote from page 289 (Kindle Version) of her book. 

Knowing Sirhan was going to be firing blanks, other conspirators simply had to wait until Sirhan fired his first shot. Then, while everyone else in the pantry froze in shock and fear, assassins moved quickly to get the job done. This scenario fits all the known evidence. Sirhan was like a magician’s assistant, providing the distraction by firing blanks. All eyes went to his gun, leaving the actual assassins to do their job. The actual shooters could have used suppressors and kept their weapons well hidden, perhaps in rolled-up posters or under a newspaper or a busboy’s towel. With several people firing at once, it became impossible to tell how many shots are fired. That explains why the shots sounded like firecrackers to such a large number of witnesses.

Pease, Lisa. A Lie Too Big to Fail (p. 289). Feral House. Kindle Edition. 

Does this sound credible? The book is chock full of "what ifs" and her speculation which are absurd in relevance to the facts. 

 

 

In Further Agreement - Reply from David S. Lifton

I'm sorry to learn that Lisa Pease's work on RFK is so shallow and undocumented (because I always approached this case [the RFK case] with a fair degree skepticism (about the official version). BUT. . .

 Has Lisa ever visited the Ambassador Hotel?  And conducted a serious on-site investigation?  (I spent hours there some decades ago, investigating all kinds of "What if's.)   Lisa writes in the subjunctive, as if "what if" and "could have been" are a substitute for evidence.  The "blank(s)" hypothesis --which she advocates -- is something I considered decades ago, but for that concept to be viable (or feasible), one has to have a credible "adjunct" hypothesis as to the actual location of the real shooter(s); i.e., RFK's true assassin(s). 

In this regard, Ms. Pease offers nothing that is credible. For example, she asserts -- as a possibility -- that the "actual shooters" were individuals who "could have" done "this and that" (second set, my quotes), but none of what she asserts is plausible or credible.    She asserts (as plausible) multiple shooters on site (!!) who -- somehow -- remained "sight unseen" and whose weapons were "well hidden," perhaps in "rolled-up posters," or under a newspaper or a busboy's towel."  In view of the existing record, not only is this "not credible"; it is absurd.

I could (and would) respect any analysis that includes a serious effort to establish the falsification of evidence, or the execution of a strategic deception.  But instead, and most unfortunately, Lisa Pease offers nothing of the kind.  Instead, what we've got here --and this is my own personal judgement -- is a highly opinionated loud-mouth who seems to think that "asserting" this or that is a substitute for presenting a serious analysis based upon credible evidence. 

DSL (9/17/21 - {Fri.} 3 AM PDT)

Edited September 17, 2021 by David Lifton

[Micah Mileto]

A Lie Too Big To Fail doesn't get deep enough into the report that the Police found at least one nail inside of what was previously thought to be a bullet hole. Just searching "Nail" on the RFK Mary Ferrel web page will show many documents not acknowledged in the book. 

Edited September 17, 2021 by Micah Mileto

[David Lifton]

On 8/30/2021 at 11:31 AM, Steve Roe said:

In addition to Kerry Kennedy, the eldest son of RFK, Joseph Kennedy has voiced his disgust with the Parole Board's recent ruling. Now it will go to the larger Parole Board, and then ultimately to Governor Gavin Newsom. 

You can bet your bottom dollar they will fight this. I support their efforts to get this overturned. 

I am confident Sirhan will remain, where he should be, in prison for the rest of his life. 

Assassin's parole recommendation condemned by Kennedy's daughter (newsnationnow.com)

I agree. To repeat what Steve Roe said: "I am confident Sirhan will remain, where he should be, in prison for the rest of his life."

 Furthermore, should he be granted a release, my bet is that within a short time, Sirhan will be found in some mideast country, mouthing off that he was now ready to tell "the full truth" or "the real truth"; and will be searching for a book contract, advertised to be exactly such a truth.

FWIW: Robert Blair Kaiser (who passed in 2015) was a good friend of mine, and I know how difficult it was dealing with  Sirhan, and attempting to get anything resembling "the truth" from him.

Pardon my cynicism; but if Sirhan is released and embarks on the equivalent of a "book tour," those government officials who permitted such a farce, will look like fools.

DSL

9/17/21 - 6 AM PDT

 

[David Lifton]

On 8/30/2021 at 11:31 AM, Steve Roe said:

In addition to Kerry Kennedy, the eldest son of RFK, Joseph Kennedy has voiced his disgust with the Parole Board's recent ruling. Now it will go to the larger Parole Board, and then ultimately to Governor Gavin Newsom. 

You can bet your bottom dollar they will fight this. I support their efforts to get this overturned. 

I am confident Sirhan will remain, where he should be, in prison for the rest of his life. 

Assassin's parole recommendation condemned by Kennedy's daughter (newsnationnow.com)

I agree. To repeat what Steve Roe said: "I am confident Sirhan will remain, where he should be, in prison for the rest of his life."

 Furthermore, should he be granted a release, my bet is that within a short time, Sirhan will be found in some mideast country, mouthing off that he was now ready to tell "the full truth" or "the real truth"; and will be searching for a book contract, advertised to be exactly such a truth.

FWIW: Robert Blair Kaiser (who passed in 2015) was a good friend of mine, and I know how difficult it was dealing with  Sirhan, and attempting to get anything resembling "the truth" from him.

Pardon my cynicism; but if Sirhan is released and embarks on the equivalent of a "book tour," those government officials who permitted such a farce, will look like fools.

DSL

9/17/21 - 6 AM PDT

 

[David Lifton]

On 8/30/2021 at 11:31 AM, Steve Roe said:

In addition to Kerry Kennedy, the eldest son of RFK, Joseph Kennedy has voiced his disgust with the Parole Board's recent ruling. Now it will go to the larger Parole Board, and then ultimately to Governor Gavin Newsom. 

You can bet your bottom dollar they will fight this. I support their efforts to get this overturned. 

I am confident Sirhan will remain, where he should be, in prison for the rest of his life. 

Assassin's parole recommendation condemned by Kennedy's daughter (newsnationnow.com)

I agree. To repeat what Steve Roe said: "I am confident Sirhan will remain, where he should be, in prison for the rest of his life."

 Furthermore, should he be granted a release, my bet is that within a short time, Sirhan will be found in some mideast country, mouthing off that he was now ready to tell "the full truth" or "the real truth"; and will be searching for a book contract, advertised to be exactly such a truth.

FWIW: Robert Blair Kaiser (who passed in 2015) was a good friend of mine, and I know how difficult it was dealing with  Sirhan, and attempting to get anything resembling "the truth" from him.

Pardon my cynicism; but if Sirhan is released and embarks on the equivalent of a "book tour," those government officials who permitted such a farce, will look like fools.

DSL

David S. Lifton

9/17/21 - 6 AM PDT

 

[Jamey Flanagan]

I do believe that Sirhan was firing blanks. It does not seem at all ridiculous or implausible at all. In fact, it seems very plausible and ideal. For one thing, say Thane Eugene Caesar was an assassin....... Sirhan is a MK Ultra assassin but comes out in front firing wildly into the crowd....... especially after they start jumping on him...... who's to say that Sirhan couldn't accidentally shoot Caesar? Or any other assassin behind RFK? Would Caesar volunteer to be in the line of fire? Maybe you can say he's MK Ultra too. It's like how a magician uses slight of hand. Sirhan is the diversion. Firing blanks in front to get everyone's attention while the real killer/killers do their job almost unnoticed. 

[David Lifton]

On 9/17/2021 at 7:37 AM, Jamey Flanagan said:

I do believe that Sirhan was firing blanks. It does not seem at all ridiculous or implausible at all. In fact, it seems very plausible and ideal. For one thing, say Thane Eugene Caesar was an assassin....... Sirhan is a MK Ultra assassin but comes out in front firing wildly into the crowd....... especially after they start jumping on him...... who's to say that Sirhan couldn't accidentally shoot Caesar? Or any other assassin behind RFK? Would Caesar volunteer to be in the line of fire? Maybe you can say he's MK Ultra too. It's like how a magician uses slight of hand. Sirhan is the diversion. Firing blanks in front to get everyone's attention while the real killer/killers do their job almost unnoticed. 

If Sirhan was firing blanks-- and I stress "if" --that's all one needs to know. Whatever the remaining details, Sirhan's firings blanks (again, if that is so) would constitute major evidence of a serious (and well designed) plot in the RFK case.  DSL (9/25/21 -2:45 AM PDT)

 

[Micah Mileto]

On 9/25/2021 at 5:45 AM, David Lifton said:

If Sirhan was firing blanks-- and I stress "if" --that's all one needs to know. Whatever the remaining details, Sirhan's firings blanks (again, if that is so) would constitute major evidence of a serious (and well designed) plot in the RFK case.  DSL (9/25/21 -2:45 AM PDT)

 

Some witnesses described a big long flame shooting out if the barrel, apparently too long to be consistent with the type of gun and ammo in the official story.

 

Other than that, the "blanks" thing is largely based on logic rather than direct evidence.

[Sandy Larsen]

 

14 hours ago, Micah Mileto said:

Some witnesses described a big long flame shooting out if the barrel, apparently too long to be consistent with the type of gun and ammo in the official story.

Other than that, the "blanks" thing is largely based on logic rather than direct evidence.

 

Which is okay if one is formulating a theory.

I've noticed that some forum members here seem to think that anything not having direct evidence must be thrown out. But circumstantial evidence is often used in court cases and by scientists in theories they accept as being true. Nothing wrong with it as long as it is made clear that it's circumstantial.

 

[Jamey Flanagan]

As well as the flame witnesses also other witnesses talked of seeing confetti floating around during the shooting and in the book RFK Must Die it is said that blanks as used in Hollywood has confetti inside them. I've never owned a firearm or am by no means an expert on firearms so I plead ignorance and have to rely on others statements on those matters. I'm a big fan of The Walking Dead TV series and I've noticed several times when they are firing you'll see a flame shoot out and when I've seen people fire real weapons in real life I haven't seen anything quite like that. It's all circumstantial evidence of course, but considering the chain of possession problems with the Sirhan gun and the musical chairs game of serial numbers associated with this gun then I consider all of the Sirhan "shots" to victims circumstantial evidence as well. Especially considering the testimony of the coroner Nagucci. 

[Jamey Flanagan]

It's kind of like Oswald.....if you wanna break it down into the simplest question....if this guy is as guilty as everyone thinks he is then why are so many items of evidence lost, fabricated, and manipulated? Or in other words why would you have to try so hard to frame a guilty man? If Sirhan, even under hypnosis was the assassin, and the lone assassin, then why would the serial number on the gun keep changing? Why would you have multiple "magic" bullets in this case bouncing and ricocheting all over the place to make this scenario possible? 

[Joe Bauer]

I hadn't considered the point that Thane Cesar was in the line of fire himself.

Sirhan fired a lot of shots. They hit several people, but not big hulking Cesar who was right at RFK's side when the firing started?

I don't think the average person knows the history of the L.A.P.D.

It has always been known that a great part of that force held extreme right wing views for decades in the 1940's, 50's. 60's. Racist views. In 1963 by and large most on that force hated the Kennedy's.

I don't think the average American knows the extent of that hate.

When JFK called out federal troops to the University of Mississippi on October 1962 to confront the segregationist protest over James Meredith entering that formerly all white campus, the level of hate towards JFK ( and RFK ) just exploded among Americans who favored segregation. 

Murderous level hate.

The L.A.P.D. in a majority way was of that mind set back then and even in 1968.

I remember hearing a taped L.A. P.D. dispatch phone call of a lady calling the L.A.P.D. to tell them of the RFK shooting. She started by telling the police dispatcher she was calling in an emergency from the Ambassador Hotel. She then told the dispatcher RFK was staying there.

The gruff sounding dispatcher immediately interjected at that point and said loudly in the most disgusted tone..."BIG DEAL!"

 

Edited September 28, 2021 by Joe Bauer

[Ron Bulman]

2 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

I hadn't considered the point that Thane Cesar was in the line of fire himself.

Sirhan fired a lot of shots. They hit several people, but not big hulking Cesar who was right at RFK's side when the firing started?

I don't think the average person knows the history of the L.A.P.D.

It has always been known that a great part of that force held extreme right wing views for decades in the 1940's, 50's. 60's. Racist views. In 1963 by and large most on that force hated the Kennedy's.

I don't think the average America knows the extent of that hate.

When JFK called out federal troops to the University of Mississippi on October 1962 to confront the segregationist protest over James Meredith entering that formerly all white campus, the level of hate towards JFK ( and RFK ) just exploded among Americans who favored segregation. 

Murderous level hate.

The L.A.P.D. in a majority way was of that mind set back then and even in 1968.

I remember hearing a taped L.A. P.D. dispatch phone call of a lady calling the L.A.P.D. to tell them of the RFK shooting. She started by telling the police dispatcher she was calling in an emergency from the Ambassador Hotel. She then told the dispatcher RFK was staying there.

The gruff sounding dispatcher immediately interjected at that point and said loudly in the most disgusted tone..."BIG DEAL!"

 

Joe, Sirhan fired 8 shots, that's all his gun would hold.  The people hit had a total of 8 wounds.  If you add one through RFK's coat that missed that's 9 shots.  Unless the one through RFK's coat was one of those hitting someone else.  Pretty good shooting for being tackled by multiple people after the second shot.

Ceasar was not in the line of fire.  The people who planned this did not want their assassin shot.  The shooter behind Sirhan  crouched on the table behind him shot to RFK's left injuring the others wounded.  Then left with the woman in the Polka Dot dress.  After Sirhan fired blanks (Steve).

Yes I believe it's called the Rampart Police station was heavily corrupted.  They brought a CIA officer from there back to conduct the "special' investigation.