Destiny Betrayed 2022

[Ron Bulman]

No, not the original 1992 book, before the Assassination Records Review Board.  Nor the 2012 revised edition, after the ARRB.  The 2022 film deserves its own thread.  JFK Revisited: Through the Looking Glass is outstanding.  But this takes that up more than a notch.  I've only watched the first two chapters but this is evident already.

Being at least somewhat familiar with many of the subjects, I'm still blown away by the details, things I didn't know. It could well spur interest in a younger generation, jmo.  The visuals were outstanding, the historical shots/video, as well as the interviews/commentators.

Things I noted.

McCloy/Conkrite/NBC special/his daughter, Exposed!

Senator Russell's dissent to the Warren Commission Report with a fake stenographer, also exposed in film for the first time I know of, disappeared.  I think I've read elsewhere this was set up by Dulles, Devil's Chessboard maybe?

There is a transcript of the Parkland press conference?  Maybe I've read and forgotten it, it went over my head at the time?  Where can I read it now?

Crenshaw on camera, very sincere, I looked, I wanted to know.  I will always know, from the right front, to the back, tracing from the hairline with his finger.  Emphatically.  Thank you Jim, Oliver et al.  I have Trauma Room One.  Seeing him say this is gratifying. 

Aguilar, from suppressed HSCA files, Bethesda witnesses agreed with those from Parkland about the rear exit wound!!!

CIA analysis of four shots, two from the front, in 1963/4?  Did I get this right? need to watch it again.

I guess this will blow the whole post/thread for some but if Ruby was possibly hypnotized, or Not, were the horns his triggers? 

 

Edited March 11, 2022 by Ron Bulman

[Denny Zartman]

While I'm sure the military has tried mind control, I don't believe there was any hypnotism involved with Ruby or Oswald. Just my opinion. Threats to Ruby's life probably would have been enough motivation.

There is also the possibility that if Oswald ratted, Ruby would have been one of the first names named. Looking at the official account of Oswald's post assassination movements, a strong argument could be made that he was heading toward the direction of Ruby's home when he crossed paths with Officer Tippit.

Edited March 11, 2022 by Denny Zartman

[Denny Zartman]

I noticed the two car horn honks for the first time in, of all places, the Sixth Floor Museum. They had the audio only, and listening to the audio divorced from the video, the two horns were clear as day. I had never noticed them before. Either they had been removed from the videos I had seen or that the drama of the killing distracted me. I believe it was exactly as it appears to be: an observer in a nearby car giving Ruby a signal.

[Ty Carpenter]

Has the "honker" or the honking car ever been identified?

[Denny Zartman]

8 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

There is a transcript of the Parkland press conference?  Maybe I've read and forgotten it, it went over my head at the time?  Where can I read it now?

http://22november1963.org.uk/jfk-parkland-hospital-press-conference

[Ron Bulman]

13 hours ago, Denny Zartman said:

http://22november1963.org.uk/jfk-parkland-hospital-press-conference

Thanks Denny.

[Ron Bulman]

14 hours ago, Denny Zartman said:

While I'm sure the military has tried mind control, I don't believe there was any hypnotism involved with Ruby or Oswald. Just my opinion. Threats to Ruby's life probably would have been enough motivation.

There is also the possibility that if Oswald ratted, Ruby would have been one of the first names named. Looking at the official account of Oswald's post assassination movements, a strong argument could be made that he was heading toward the direction of Ruby's home when he crossed paths with Officer Tippit.

I can't really get behind Ruby being hypnotized either.  I don't remember ever seeing that clearly, on a large screen, Oswald's walk from the jail office to when he was shot, with the horns honking as loud as they did exactly when they did.  Both times the horns blasted out, not a tap.  It was like here he comes, then, shoot now.  More likely signals than triggers.  It's hard for me to believe he could have been hypnotized deeply enough in two days.  As you allude to, something more along the lines of omerta seem more likely.

But the horns took me all the way back to Crossfire.  Jim Marrs says "Ruby asked his captor's, What happened?"  "He displayed an odd inability to recall the Oswald shooting with any clarity."  Marrs also goes into Officer Don Ray Archers observations of Ruby's first couple of hours in jail, hyper, sweating wanting a cigarette.  When told Oswald had died he calmed down.  Offered a cigarette, he said he didn't smoke.  

[Paul Brancato]

This is the 4 hr version? In four parts?

[Ron Bulman]

9 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

This is the 4 hr version? In four parts?

Paul, rereading my post it might be confusing.  Yes, the part showing Oswald come out of the jail office when the first horn blows loudly, then walking toward the camera, then the second horn blows loudly and Ruby jumps out and shoots, yes, that's in Chapter 2 of the film.

I've heard both horns before and seen Oswald walking towards Ruby online on my laptop.  I'd never seen the full sequence that I remember with the horns that loud on a 48" TV from 10' away.  Kind of a wow moment for me.

Again, the "What happened" and further comments were from Jim Marrs Crossfire.  

[Jamey Flanagan]

I have read stories before from people suggesting that Oswald was hypnotized and was a Manchurian candidate but I don't see that at all. Now Ruby, I can see that. Not saying that's the case. I'm maybe 50/50 on it but I can definitely see it as a possibility. Like others, I don't wanna hijack the thread or steer it in a different direction, but I recall reading somewhere many years ago that Dave Ferrie dabbled in hypnotism. Can't recall exactly where I read that but it seems like it might have been brought up in questioning done by some of Garrison's investigators. If so, I'm not sure either if Ferrie himself brought up hypnosis or if some of his friends and companions brought up that he was pretty good at hypnosis. I'm sure if it ever came up in the Garrison investigation then @James DiEugenio would probably know. If not then only God knows where I read that, lol! I think it was in the early 2000's I read that online somewhere.

[Michaleen Kilroy]

Truly a work that will stand the test of time.

Really answered all my questions but one: why was the USG so willing to help the conspirators from the get-go, from the initial bullying of the Parkland doctors on the day of the assassination onward?

DPD finds three spent bullets in the TSBD and that’s it, we’re going with that? Who set down the law among the FBI, SS, etc. to shut down any real investigation that soon and that completely?

[Sandy Larsen]

41 minutes ago, Michaleen Kilroy said:

why was the USG so willing to help the conspirators from the get-go, from the initial bullying of the Parkland doctors on the day of the assassination onward?

 

The USG wasn't willing to help the assassination conspirators at all. Because they (the CIA conspirators) were telling the FBI and USG officials that Oswald was involved in a Cuban/Russian conspiracy to kill the president (i.e. the Mexico City story), and the USG wanted none of that to become public as it might lead to WW3. So the USG shut that down with their own conspiracy, which was to cover up the assassination conspiracy.

 

Edited March 12, 2022 by Sandy Larsen

[James DiEugenio]

As I have said before, the way I found out about the horns was through Ray Marcus.

A true first generation researcher. He calls me up one day and he says, Jim which version of Ruby shooting Oswald do you have?

I said, what do you mean, which version?

He said the one horner or the two horner? I said the one horner.

He said then you have the edited version, I will send you the unedited one.

It is really kind of surprising when you first see it.  Because of the timing being so precise: horn 1, Oswald enters the foyer;  horn 2, Ruby jumps forward.

I am not saying this was deliberate.  But I am saying its odd that it was edited in the first place.

From my understanding, the only live feed on this was through NBC.  Was it them who edited it?

[Michaleen Kilroy]

2 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

The USG wasn't willing to help the assassination conspirators at all. Because they (the CIA conspirators) were telling the FBI and USG officials that Oswald was involved in a Cuban/Russian conspiracy to kill the president (i.e. the Mexico City story), and the USG wanted none of that to become public as it might lead to WW3. So the USG shut that down with their own conspiracy, which was to cover up the assassination conspiracy.

 

Thanks for responding, Sandy.

I’m not sure I’ve seen evidence that the CIA on day one was alerting the larger USG to that scenario. Recall Hoover discussing the tape with allegedly the voice of LHO that didn’t match the prisoner in Dallas with LBJ. But was that enough to shut down a true investigation right then and there?

And if anyone truly believed the Soviets or Cubans were involved, would the entire USG really let that go?

[Ron Bulman]

6 hours ago, Jamey Flanagan said:

I have read stories before from people suggesting that Oswald was hypnotized and was a Manchurian candidate but I don't see that at all. Now Ruby, I can see that. Not saying that's the case. I'm maybe 50/50 on it but I can definitely see it as a possibility. Like others, I don't wanna hijack the thread or steer it in a different direction, but I recall reading somewhere many years ago that Dave Ferrie dabbled in hypnotism. Can't recall exactly where I read that but it seems like it might have been brought up in questioning done by some of Garrison's investigators. If so, I'm not sure either if Ferrie himself brought up hypnosis or if some of his friends and companions brought up that he was pretty good at hypnosis. I'm sure if it ever came up in the Garrison investigation then @James DiEugenio would probably know. If not then only God knows where I read that, lol! I think it was in the early 2000's I read that online somewhere.

Jack Martin, who worked for Guy Bannister and was pistol whipped by him on 11/22/63 because he thought Martin had been digging in them.  Martin told the FBI on the 24th or 25th Ferrie either dabbled in hypnosis or was a amateur hypnotist.  I don't remember which.  Barry Seal reportedly said Ferrie was a master hypnotist.  Where did I read Ferrie was taught hypnotism by Dr. William Joseph Bryan.  I think the details are in the Mockingbire/MKULTRA thread.