Ruth Paine on "The Assassination & Mrs. Paine" film: "Well done, but powerfully awful"

[Bill Brown]

4 hours ago, Denny Zartman said:

From what I have observed in this life, couples who have truly broken up don't usually end up living together, regardless of child status. Your experience may be different, but in my experience people and their ex's rarely ever want to be in the same room with each other, much less live together under the same roof half a century after breaking up. In my experience, the vast majority of couples who have broken up will actually go out of their way not to be in contact with the other person beyond what is absolutely necessary. And Ruth and Michael were living under the same roof together after their divorce for how long in this case? Decades?

Do you know anyone at all who still lives with their ex? They were together for their children? Their forty and fifty and sixty year old kids? Even if that was the case, there is more than one nursing home in Northern California. Give me a break. Are we going to pretend that they were getting (or even needed) some sort of discount if both of them lived at the same nursing home?

In the documentary, Ruth claims that she and Michael became closer after their separation, seeing each other more often and going out to dinner a lot.

I think back on my relationships and the relationships my friends and family have had over the course of my lifetime, and I can't recall a single one where a couple saw more of each other after the breakup than before, regardless of children. And to even imagine some of them living together again under any circumstances is laughable. In my life experience, couples growing closer after separating is far from business as usual. Most importantly, that's simply not how "breaking up" works.

They separated, and ended up seeing more of each other? They divorced, and were living together in their 80's? To me, it's eye-rollingly implausible.

 

They separated, and ended up seeing more of each other? They divorced, and were living together in their 80's? To me, it's eye-rollingly implausible.

 

Why do you guys keep saying "living together"?  They weren't living together.

 

[Denny Zartman]

3 hours ago, Matt Allison said:

If it was a ruse, what exactly would be the point of such an exercise?

I can only guess at that. Maybe they knew it would look even more suspicious if they were only separated from each other for the exact amount of time that Marina was living there. The Paines have been under scrutiny and suspicion for 58 years and counting. Either way, I don't have to guess at the fact that, from everything I've experienced in life, most couples who separate don't keep on dating and most couples who divorce are not still together sleeping under the same roof half a century later.

"Hey Mike, I heard you and Ruth are no longer going steady. Is that true?"

"Sure is, got my class ring back from her and everything. We decided it would be for the best."

"That's too bad. So, what are you doing this Friday night?"

"Ruth and I are going out for dinner and a movie."

All I can say is that just doesn't jibe with my life experiences. Maybe I'm wrong.

[Joe Bauer]

3 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

Joe's right , Paul. It is very expensive, but money's no object to the Paine's. i lived the vast majority of my life in California. and people from the East have been coming out here all my life. and whatever you hear, they actually still do, but now  they're people from throughout the world, and they're driving up property prices..

Yes, assisted living and nursing homes here reflect the same insane inflation as residential property rents.

A two bedroom one bath home ( originally built in the early 1950's ) in what used to be a little higher than middle class neighborhood here in Monterey rents for $4,500 a month.

Newer three bedroom, two bath homes over $5,000 a month or more.

We even have about ten very high end retirement and assisted living residences that go for $10,000 a month!

Edited October 12, 2022 by Joe Bauer

[Max Good]

As I said in the film, I was surprised to find Michael living in the same retirement home.  My understanding of the situation has been described above: that Michael was living nearby with their son until his health declined.  It doesn't necessarily seem suspicious to me, but I know people who have speculated that it was some kind of CIA-approved retirement home!  Ruth had a boyfriend who is visible in some of the shots in the film.  He passed away the same year as Michael, 2018.  I got the sense that Ruth and Michael were on friendly but not especially close terms at that point.  That's just my impression from very limited observation.

Joe Alesi could probably tell us more.

[Pat Speer]

6 hours ago, Matt Allison said:

If it was a ruse, what exactly would be the point of such an exercise?

It makes perfect sense to me. I have a currently-married ex-gf who regularly mentions how she thinks we'll end up in a retirement home together. People can connect in a way that transcends time, where they can enjoy each other's company even though they are no longer "lovers". 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Pat Speer said:

It makes perfect sense to me. I have a currently-married ex-gf who regularly mentions how she thinks we'll end up in a retirement home together. People can connect in a way that transcends time, where they can enjoy each other's company even though they are no longer "lovers". 

Second that. 

For all we know (and we don't need to know) perhaps they had an on/off thing going on for years, or an LAT relationship, doesn't matter to me, whatever it was.

 

[James DiEugenio]

Just remember, Ruth Paine threatened Max about getting Mike taken out of the film.

Max can correct me if I am wrong.

[James DiEugenio]

What is so revealing about her attack on the film is that its utterly predictable.

I mean she has been doing this from the start.

Now with all those books she read, she does not know any of the problems with Oswald being a communist?

Max even asked her: why would a White Russian like the Baron become buddy buddy with someone like Oswald?

Recall what she said:  Well, that is a good question.

Its more than a good question--because it was George who struck up the relationship, not Lee.

And then George goes to Haiti, and Ruth and Michael now become the new pals of Lee and Marina.

Now with all those books she had, she does not know that Lee stamped some of his flyers in New Orleans with 544 Camp Street?  C'mon.  She knows that. And its consistent with Lee's relationship with the Baron.  

Ruth Paine has been keeping her finger in the dike for a long time.  This is the first instance where she has been challenged in public on it.  Kudos to Max. 

If anything I would have gone even further.

Edited October 12, 2022 by James DiEugenio

[Guest]

1 hour ago, James DiEugenio said:

What is so revealing about her attack on the film is that its utterly predictable.

I mean she has been doing this from the start.

Now with all those books she read, she does not know any of the problems with Oswald being a communist?

Max even asked her: why would a White Russian like the Baron become buddy buddy with someone like Oswald?

Recall what she said:  Well, that is a good question.

Its more than a good question--because it was George who struck up the relationship, not Lee.

And then George goes to Haiti, and Ruth and Michael now become the new pals of Lee and Marina.

Now with all those books she had, she does not know that Lee stamped some of his flyers in New Orleans with 544 Camp Street?  C'mon.  She knows that. And its consistent with Lee's relationship with the Baron.  

Ruth Paine has been keeping her finger in the dike for a long time.  This is the first instance where she has been challenged in public on it.  Kudos to Max. 

If anything I would have gone even further.

O, I will agree there’s a bunch of unanswered questions.  

And in participating in the film, she put herself in the spotlights again. So we cannot be blamed for asking questions, it’s an invitation.

But I don’t want to waste time discussing what type of relationship she had with Michael over the past decades.  
 

[Guest]

She’s an exceptionally strong character, at that age, after so many years, and all what has been said and written, I can’t think of many that would be willing to take the stand (again….),

I don’t even think I understand why she did it this time ?  

Are we supposed to see this as a challenge, from a 90 y.o. person ?  Really ?

Is this like "Oops, she did it again" .... ?   What's happening ?

I’m confused….

I’m the one in need for an afternoon nap… darn….
 

[Matt Allison]

Michael Paine made this acerbic comment about Oswald that seemed to imply he wasn't particularly convinced of Oswald's Marxist bona fides:

"Well, he came out on weekends. I remember stepping over him one time as he was watching T.V., watching a football game with his chin in his hands there, and thinking, "What a fine little revolutionary we have here, being snookered into the new opiate of the people, football."

 

 

[Paul Cummings]

6 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

In fact two vehicles suddenly left the scene. But...if you heard gunfire, would you leave a scene? 

I suspect one of the vehicles gave LHO a ride. 

Anyway, read my story. It's free, and worth every penny. 

 

7 hours ago, Max Good said:

As I said in the film, I was surprised to find Michael living in the same retirement home.  My understanding of the situation has been described above: that Michael was living nearby with their son until his health declined.  It doesn't necessarily seem suspicious to me, but I know people who have speculated that it was some kind of CIA-approved retirement home!  Ruth had a boyfriend who is visible in some of the shots in the film.  He passed away the same year as Michael, 2018.  I got the sense that Ruth and Michael were on friendly but not especially close terms at that point.  That's just my impression from very limited observation.

Joe Alesi could probably tell us more.

Max I've read that Ruth was estranged from her daughter and was wondering if this was discussed with her but wasn't in the Doc? 

[Guest]

Somehow I feel Michael's part (in whatever it was !) has been downplayed all the time, probably because Ruth was the stronghold in making statements.

 

[Guest]

On 10/12/2022 at 1:48 PM, Matt Allison said:

Michael Paine made this acerbic comment about Oswald that seemed to imply he wasn't particularly convinced of Oswald's Marxist bona fides:

"Well, he came out on weekends. I remember stepping over him one time as he was watching T.V., watching a football game with his chin in his hands there, and thinking, "What a fine little revolutionary we have here, being snookered into the new opiate of the people, football."

 

 

Hey, even Fidel an Ché took a break every now and then...

 

Edited October 20, 2022 by Jean Paul Ceulemans

[Max Good]

7 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Just remember, Ruth Paine threatened Max about getting Mike taken out of the film.

Max can correct me if I am wrong.

I think it was Ruth's son who was especially upset how Michael was shown in the trailer for the film.  I believe they saw the trailer at the time Michael was in hospice and were understandably sensitive.  Ruth mentioned that her son had power of attorney for Michael and she said that I shouldn't think that I have the right to use his likeness in the film.  Michael had signed a release 2-3 years before and there was no mention that he was unable to make decisions for himself at that point, so my lawyer agreed that it was alright to go ahead.

Michael maybe looked a little bewildered in that old trailer, which could have been offensive to them at that point.  It wasn't intentional.

 

2 hours ago, Paul Cummings said:

 

Max I've read that Ruth was estranged from her daughter and was wondering if this was discussed with her but wasn't in the Doc? 

I spoke to Ruth's daughter on the phone and she laughed this story off as a concoction of the conspiracy theorists.  I don't remember if I asked Ruth about it, but if I did, she probably said something similar.  I tried very hard to get an interview with the person who first got this impression from Ruth (that the estrangement was over the assassination) but they never responded to me.