OSWALD'S MOTIVE

[Gerry Down]

34 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

Gerry,

I hope you realize that if you keep on ignoring the question, its makes people suspect you are not confident about the source yourself.

My books have literally thousands of footnotes.

The scripts I wrote for Oliver Stone have hundred of footnotes all displayed in the book JFK Revisited.

That is what we expect on this site.

 

Page 393 of the Warren Report

https://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/warren-commission-report/chapter-7.html

[David Von Pein]

5 hours ago, Miles Massicotte said:

For crying out loud, Oswald didn't even know what Marxism was. He said that he was a Marxist but not a communist, which is completely nonsensical. The backyard photos show him holding two newspapers in ideological opposition to each other (pro/anti-Trotsky). In his radio interview he seems to barely have a grasp of the subjects at hand and repeatedly fails to provide adequate answers to his interlocutor's questions about his Marxist beliefs. The idea that Oswald's motive was Marxism is laughable.

That doesn't really matter. The important thing is was what Oswald himself thought and believed (even if the things he believed were skewed).

And Oswald seemed to have a fairly strong dislike for America in general (as evidenced by some of the things LHO said in this letter [CE295] written to his brother, Robert, on November 26, 1959, while Lee was living in the Soviet Union; see excerpts from that letter in the Vincent Bugliosi book excerpt pictured below). That could have created a pretty strong motive in Oswald's warped mind right there.

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The bottom line is --- we'll never ever know for certain what "motive" Lee Harvey Oswald had for taking his own rifle to work on 11/22/63 and murdering the President. But one thing is a certainty (in my opinion) --- he had one. Because Oswald did kill John F. Kennedy.

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/Oswald's Motive (Part 1)

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/Oswald's Motive (Part 2)

 

Edited December 2, 2022 by David Von Pein

[Sandy Larsen]

1 hour ago, Gerry Down said:

Surely there is no context that could justify to the statement he was willing to kill any American. 

 

"I'd be willing to kill any American engaged in child trafficking."

And don't call me Shirley. 

 

[Sandy Larsen]

1 hour ago, Gerry Down said:

Page 393 of the Warren Report

https://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/warren-commission-report/chapter-7.html

 

I don't see any mention of Oswald being willing to kill any American.

 

[Paul Brancato]

1 hour ago, Miles Massicotte said:

We will of course have to agree to disagree on who killed Kennedy. But isn't it a little disconcerting to you that someone who has supposedly renounced his citizenship because he is such an adamant Marxist, is obsessive about it in his letters, etc. etc. is also generally clueless about the ideology when actually pressed? You've got a guy opening a chapter of the FPCC (supposedly) and pamphleteering about it who can't actually speak on his own behalf cogently in support of his own cause. 

I didn’t find his radio conversations convincing. But we are so much more educated now. The doctrinaire way of describing his Marxist beliefs is for me a clue that he was acting a part. You see that differently? It would be silly to view Oswald as actually believing his words. It’s theater, as was his lonely FPCC chapter, an organization that was not only being targeted in covert CIA ops, but was probably in itself a covert op. 

[James DiEugenio]

Are you serious Gerry?

I mean please.

This is a guy who says in the event of war, he would kill Americans.

At a time when he was trying to sell the Russians on his loyalty to Moscow.  I mean the guy even faked a suicide at that time. And that is on that same page!

I am really beginning to wonder about some of these new members.

[Cory Santos]

10 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

Are you serious Gerry?

I mean please.

This is a guy who says in the event of war, he would kill Americans.

At a time when he was trying to sell the Russians on his loyalty to Moscow.  I mean the guy even faked a suicide at that time. And that is on that same page!

I am really beginning to wonder about some of these new members.

Exactly.  This was written to sell his story as he was under great surveillance.   Come on.  
If you take this as true then take his patsy statement as true.  Oh you don’t DVP?

Edited December 2, 2022 by Cory Santos

[Sandy Larsen]

2 hours ago, Miles Massicotte said:

3 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

I don't see any mention of Oswald being willing to kill any American.

It's on pg. 392. I think it is completely irrelevant frankly, but it is there.

 

I think Oswald was acting out his cover... a disgruntled American turned Communist. To impress his Russian hosts.

 

[Joe Bauer]

Assuming Oswald took the potshot at Walker.

He planned this for weeks. He had pictures. He had maps. He had an escape plan with timelines for the bus ride back home and a plan for burying his rifle near the railroad tracks. In a way that he could come back and retrieve it later.

He ran after one missed shot logically thinking Walker would be calling the cops and/or someone in the neighborhood hearing the loud rifle shot would also do so.

At least he had a somewhat rational escape plan and it worked. 

I do wonder how he got his rifle to Walker's house while only riding buses?

With the JFK scenario however, he has to leave his rifle behind. He knows the authorities will soon find it and know it belongs to him. He knows there are pictures of him holding the rifle and carrying the pistol he allegedly used on Tippit. 

Different than the Walker shooting, the JFK one was a no escape suicide mission. Oswald had to know this.

Or, it wasn't supposed to be and his escape ride never showed up and he soon knew his goose was cooked. 

Oswald proclaiming his innocence from capture to his death, never wavering and also stating he was a patsy is just too contrary to the WC finding that his motive was for personal fame and recognition. A man that changed history for his perceived belief that what he was doing in taking out JFK would facilitate that change?

Yet, Oswald himself said things would not change with LBJ left to be president.

The conundrum about Oswald is too many things are contrary in everyway. Motive, actions, statements to the press, To a degree that you can't help but conclude that they are just too contrary. 

 

 

[Ron Ege]

Joe, thanks.  "Assuming", would be the word.

Taking away LHO shooting at Walker, IMO, leads to him not shooting JFK and then Tippit.  Just Gil Jesus' fine work (see below), I believe, would have exonerated Oswald for the Walker shooting.

There have been reams written with regard to the improbability of the government's official story.  Most are aware of the almost surreal "party line" story of Lee taking his rifle on the bus, burying it/picking it up later, etc.   I've come to think that the Walker "incident" was simply integral to the building of "the legend", for Lee.

Gil, thank you.

Was Lee Harvey Oswald Really Guilty ? (gil-jesus.com)

Also, a fairly good summary here - outlining, IMO, much reasonable doubt that Oswald was involved.

Did Lee Harvey Oswald Shoot at General Edwin Walker? : The JFK Assassination (22november1963.org.uk)

 

[David Andrews]

11 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

I think Oswald was acting out his cover... a disgruntled American turned Communist. To impress his Russian hosts.

It was his "Lefty Lee" deep cover role, and he played it to the hilt, until the blade was buried in his chest.  Once made the patsy, he probably felt that continuity would impress the US intelligence community,* and save him - considering that this imposture would scare the Soviets to death.

The only time he broke the fourth wall was in protesting too loudly that Ruth Paine was innocent, then hinting that "now everybody will know who I am" (paraphrase).  That would call attention to each of their roles, in a sub rosa appeal to the DPD for some abetment of his role-playing, and an abatement of the pressure on him.  Did DPD upchannel those remarks, and get Oswald killed?  (Probably they didn't: his death was in the cards all along.)

Really, a strategy similar to Jack Ruby presenting himself to Earl Warren as a holder of secrets, masked in a crazy act for the benefit of Dallas police and Sheriff Bill Decker that he hoped Warren would see through.  Perhaps both Oswald and Ruby believed that the fix that was in was not universally supported above the local level.

________

*"'Intelligence community?'  Jesus, you guys are kind to yourselves."  -- Three Days of the Condor

Edited December 2, 2022 by David Andrews

[Michael Griffith]

18 hours ago, Bill Brown said:

Oswald's motive for shooting at General Walker was the same as he had for assassinating the President.  Marxism and Cuba.  Oswald wanted the United States Government to keep it's hands off of Cuba.

Oswald told Capt. Will Fritz that he was a Marxist, that he belonged to the Fair Play For Cuba organization and that he was in favor of Fidel Castro's revolution.

Before the revolution, Castro, with his Marxist beliefs, condemned social and economic inequality in Cuba.  He adopted the Marxist view that meaningful political change could only be brought about by proletariat revolution.

While Castro was imprisoned for the failed attack on the Moncada Barracks in Cuba, his wife took employment with the Ministry of the Interior.  Castro was enraged and insulted.  His Marxist beliefs were so strong that filed for divorce.  Mirta (Castro's wife) took custody of their son Fidelito.  The thought of his son growing up in a bourgeois environment further enraged Castro.

Oswald agreed strongly with the Marxist beliefs of Castro.

During the revolution, the U.S. Government feared that Castro was a socialist.

In early January of 1959, Batista was overthrown by the rebels and he fled.

The revolution was a crucial turning point in relations between the U.S. and Cuba.  Originally, the U.S. government was willing to recognize Castro's new government.  However, the U.S. government would eventually fear that Communist insurgencies would spread through Latin America, as they had in Southeast Asia.

On March 5, 1963, Major General Edwin Walker gave a speech where he called on the White House to "liquidate the (communist) scourge that has descended upon the island of Cuba."  Walker was obviously referring to Fidel Castro.   Oswald ordered his rifle seven days later.

Captain Fritz told the Warren Commission:

"I got the impression that he was doing it because of his feeling about the Castro revolution, and I think that he felt, he had a lot of feeling about that revolution.

I think that was the reason. I noticed another thing. I noticed a little before when Walker was shot, he had come out with some statements about Castro and about Cuba and a lot of things and if you will remember the President had some stories a few weeks before his death about Cuba and about Castro and some things, and I wondered if that didn't have some bearing.

I have no way of knowing that other than just watching him and talking to him. I think it was his feeling about his belief in being a Marxist, he told me he had debated in New Orleans, and that he tried to get converts to this Fair Play for Cuba organization, so I think that was his motive. I think he was doing it because of that."

This stuff is at least several decades behind the informative curve. It is surprising to see anyone who claims to be a serious student of the assassination repeating the myth that Oswald was any kind of a radical leftist.

And the case against Oswald in the Walker shooting is downright pathetic and flimsy. Walker's own description of the bullet that was fired at him contradicts the claim that Oswald fired at him.  

[Joe Bauer]

Unbelievable that Oswald wasn't taped in his DPD interrogations.

Without a stenographer present and nothing tape recorded all we have are Fritz's notes?

Oswald on Ruth Paine ..."Don't try to pull her into this." ?

Oswald ... "now everyone will know who I am." ?

At least Oswald's comment "I am just a patsy" was officially recorded and heard worldwide. We "know" he said this.

Did the DPD tape record Lee O. and his brother Robert's jail house conversation? If they did, that proves they had the equipment on hand to do so.

Fritz interrogation style was generally not to have them tape recorded?

So he and his men could get away with any abuse in that process without a record of them doing so?

Oswald was screwed in the hands of the DPD. No legal counsel for him at any point?

Then the ultimate screwing...murdered in their custody right in their own building?

 

Edited December 2, 2022 by Joe Bauer

[Steve Roe]

13 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Are you serious Gerry?

I mean please.

This is a guy who says in the event of war, he would kill Americans.

At a time when he was trying to sell the Russians on his loyalty to Moscow.  I mean the guy even faked a suicide at that time. And that is on that same page!

I am really beginning to wonder about some of these new members.

Mr. DiEugenio this is JFK 101 as you seemed not to know Oswald made this statement to his brother as pointed out by DVP and Bill Brown. I thought you were the "well-respected researcher", as you braggingly self-promote yourself on the K&K site, and you don't know this? 

Dale Myers was right; you really don't know as much as you claim you do.  

Now it's a fake suicide? Again, we see you trying to rewrite history to fit your crazy narrative that Oswald was on an intelligence mission in Russia. But you know, Intel Ops like Oswald write this stuff in their diary all the time! Right Jamey??

Now to your comment "I am beginning to wonder about some of these new members". I'm sorry Jamey that these "new members" don't share your view. Maybe all of the opposing views should just be quiet, never express an opinion and let you and others preach the "Oswald didn't do it" sermon. Would that make you happy Jamey?

When are you and Oliver Stone going to make a public statement about your "Elmer Todd" mistake? I'm asking you again, as it seems you guys are trying to cover this up and sweep it under the rug hoping everyone will forget. It's still in your film, and you and Stone knowingly are selling false mistaken information to the worldwide public. Sometimes I wonder if Stone even knows about this. Here's your opportunity to set the record straight, do the right thing, the ball is in your court. Or you can just continue covering it up making money off of it. 

Now go ahead and call me a Clown, Bozo, DisInfo Agent provocateur again to your dwindling supporters. 

In addition, can you please quit playing these phony forum games about putting myself, Bill Brown, DVP and others on Ignore? Everyone knows you read the comments off your IPhone Safari browser. You're just embarrassing yourself over and over. 

Edited December 2, 2022 by Steve Roe
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[Gerry Down]

47 minutes ago, Miles Massicotte said:

Yes. The fact that an interrogation of a suspect for the biggest political assassination in history wasn't taped is still something that people should be upset about.

Routine taping of police interviews didn't begin until 10 years after the assassination. It would have been unusual if they HAD recorded the interviews.