RFK jr says CIA killed JFK

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

BC: I think the day of the intel-state assassinating US leaders has passed (I hope). 

 

Let us keep our fingers crossed.

2 in Japan in a year or so. The worry is that enough time has lapsed in the US for them to pull that stunt again. They’d happily fill MSM with Kennedy curse stories. 
 

I hope nothing happens to RFK Jr. But, if he gets the following, they’ll do anything to stop him. 😞 

[Roger Odisio]

40 minutes ago, David Josephs said:

DJ:  I read then reread your post.

I respectfully decline to engage in such nonsense as in the past it has gotten me banned.

RO:  What nonsense is that?  Without answering a single point I made, you think you can label it all nonsense and walk away, huh.  I don't know anything about why your were banned, David, but suspect it has nothing to do with the discussion here.  

DJ:  By all means, present your arguments and answer your own questions -  Maybe others here with a much greater level of tact and patience will take the time to reply.   

RO:  No, David I presented arguments I expected *you* to answer.  Your silence and diversions speak volumes.

As to "MY" model, the Evica model is from a JFK scholar much more well-versed than I, which I have used to better understand and explain the JFKA.  I am not looking to improve on that model to make it tautological and redundant as you suggest.  https://kenrahn.com/JFK/The_critics/Evica/Perfect_cover.html 

And I'll ask again - moderators, I thought each member was required to provide a biography, or has that gone away now with the influx of new members?

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/facilitator

someone who helps a person or organization do something more easily or find the answer to a problem, by discussing things and suggesting ways of doing things

A facilitator plans, guides and manages a group event to meet its goals

RO:  Finally an attempt to answer.  You located the word "plan" as one activity of a facilitator and assert that answers my question. A facilitator plans as part of his work to help a group meet its goals.

But David, who sets or decides on what the goal should  be?  Ah yes, that's the planner for the group. The facilitator helps the planner meet his goals. They are not the same person or function. Having a planner and facilitator is not redundant or somehow a tautology. Both are necessary in most cases.

And in thinking about the JFKA it's the planner who is most important, who should concern us the most.

 

 

 

[Benjamin Cole]

6 hours ago, Chris Barnard said:

2 in Japan in a year or so. The worry is that enough time has lapsed in the US for them to pull that stunt again. They’d happily fill MSM with Kennedy curse stories. 
 

I hope nothing happens to RFK Jr. But, if he gets the following, they’ll do anything to stop him. 😞 

Usually, I would disagree with you.

I would say the Deep State has perfected "Russiagating" anyone they want, with media complicity. No need for assassinations anymore. They largely run foreign, military and trade policy anyway, no matter who is president. So they endured a Trump for some time, tried to get him impeached, and then beat him in the elections. 

But RFK Jr. might actually release the JFK Records Day One, and then change people's thinking on foreign relations. Trump changed the conversation on China, and he is no RFK Jr. There might be some real fear of RFK Jr. 

So...there will be a full-court media dung-press on RFK Jr., and if that does not work....possibly look for RFK Jr's health to fail...might not be done through a bullet...

[Matthew Koch]

Lols.. there's a lot of buzz words in this title to activate the NPC's 

https://www.thebulwark.com/the-democrats-trump-wannabe/

The Democrats’ Trump Wannabe

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. shares Trump’s penchants for conspiracy theories, Vladimir Putin, and running for president.

[David Josephs]

8 minutes ago, Matthew Koch said:

Lols.. there's a lot of buzz words in this title to activate the NPC's 

Smell that fear in the air?

I was only 18 months old back then...

Oh, the idea of having a Kennedy as president in my lifetime. 
Cue the bulwarks

 

[Michael Griffith]

17 hours ago, David Josephs said:

Who would that be Mike?  Who do you think gave LeMay orders other than JFK... McNamara or Gilpatrick?

Again Mike - you contend that Greer or Kellerman could tell LeMay and Galloway and Burkley what to say and do?  I'd need a bit more to support that contention before accepting it.

You are making my argument for me.  Yet I've offered the idea that MEXCIO was created to do just that... keep the FBI and Hoover doing as they were told...  How many of the top FBI brass spent time in the military?

Again, your making my argument.  The CIA were players in the farce under the control of military intelligence.  Name a few involved who did not spend time under the military at one time or another - up to 1963.  How many were beholden to the CIA?

Edit:  we need to move this to another thread MIKE...  meet me around the corner in the cafe, 2nd booth from the west wall 

No need to move this discussion. It is entirely appropriate as related commentary on the point that RFK Jr. was misguided in placing all the blame on the CIA. 

I think you somehow failed to discern that my reply was intended to support most of your position, not challenge it. I agree that there were other powerful players besides the CIA involved in the plot, and that the CIA's role in the cover-up was somewhat marginal compared to that of the FBI, the Secret Service, the DPD, and the military. And the Mafia's significant role in the cover-up--i.e., Ruby's shooting of Oswald--can't be ignored either.

I don't think it has been proved that LeMay was influencing the autopsy. I'm not certain that he was even there. The Navy brass in the autopsy room would not have taken kindly to an Air Force general ordering around Navy doctors in their presence, even assuming LeMay was in the room. This would have been a serious breach of military protocol. Of course, if the admirals were complicit in the cover-up, then, yes, they would have allowed it, but that's a big "if"--and it doesn't address whether they were ordered to be complicit and who ordered them and what they were told about the reason for the order, etc.

My general point about the military and the autopsy is that we just don't know who was ultimately responsible for the fraudulent autopsy. We don't know if the White House ordered the military to do a false autopsy. We just don't know, and probably will never know in this life. 

[David Josephs]

58 minutes ago, Michael Griffith said:

My general point about the military and the autopsy is that we just don't know who was ultimately responsible for the fraudulent autopsy. We don't know if the White House ordered the military to do a false autopsy. We just don't know, and probably will never know in this life. 

Kinda true for the entire enchilada... we just don't know, yet the clues and results are left behind. and when you say "White House" do you mean LBJ.. or Bundy or ??  It's a big house with a lot of rooms 

I do feel though Mike, that this was not some spur of the moment operation to create a false narrative... the difficulties and gaps in the AF1 communications are troubling while also leaving some clues as to a "plan" for Walter Reed.

It is Lipsey of the Military who lets slip about the decoy hearse begging the question as to when that switch occurs when we all see the Casket being loaded onto AF1...  from the records I have read, THAT casket may have already been empty with JFK's body returned on AF2, or in the belly of AF1...  we don't know - but we do have enough clues and casket entries to to know he wasn't in the hearse at the front of Bethesda that night.

1 hour ago, Michael Griffith said:

I think you somehow failed to discern that my reply was intended to support most of your position, not challenge it.

Sorry if the reply's tone was a bit snarky... I was actually curious who you thought it might be with Burkley being a prime candidate and seemingly on both the Kennedy and military sides - as well as the only "Top Brass" at both Parkland and Bethesda. With, as we know, a guilty conscious wanting to get something off his mind later, but never doing so.

If this was indeed the military operation and coup I see it as, and orders came from JCS Adm Anderson who was above all in the Navy, LeMay may have only been there to oversee, as he seemed to be the type to want to be sure it was done "right".  As a representative of the JCS, I don't see Galloway about to challenge him..  In fact, as one reads the events, Galloway appears to not only be playing along, but directing some of the confusion.

==

As to this and its relation to the thread title, pinning all things evil on the deserving of such accusation CIA, does not need explanation.  They hide the documents, they have the spies (I'd venture to say that most of the populace is not aware of the massive amount of intelligence and dark ops work done by the military alphabet soup) and the populace can easily digest "the CIA did it" and rally behind the man without bruising too many brain cells.

Ask anyone under 40 who Ike was and they'll say, "Wasn't he Tina Turner's husband?". 

[David Andrews]

Was the CIA represented at the autopsy?  Here's tech Paul O'Connor, quoted by Doug Horne from The Men Who Killed Kennedy (1988):

There were kind of mysterious civilian people in civilian clothes [that] were there — it seemed like they commanded lots of respect and attention — sinister looking people. They would come up and look over my shoulder or look over Dr. Boswell’s shoulder, and run back and they’d have a little conference in the corner, and then all at once, there’s word [that would] come down and says: “stop what you’re doing and go to the other procedure.” (Horne, volume 4, page 1017.)

Edited May 10, 2023 by David Andrews

[David Andrews]

Though they could have been Defense Intelligence (DIA) people in civvies.

Edited May 11, 2023 by David Andrews

[Chuck Schwartz]

David J.,  how did you select Admiral Anderson ("orders came from JCS Adm Anderson ")?

[James DiEugenio]

If you have not heard this, please do.

When was the last time a presidential candidate talked about American imperialism, like this, or at all.

I don't even think Bernie went this far.  What a breath of fresh air.  No wonder Biden will not debate him.

I mean Ike's MIC speech, are you for real?

https://www.patreon.com/posts/episode-123-for-82806064?fbclid=IwAR3UfBxterQmAw27YcP_EOvf9uzF50jwBJaW7OtzvZdnoHZ-vgke0EbwNCI

[Benjamin Cole]

10 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

If you have not heard this, please do.

When was the last time a presidential candidate talked about American imperialism, like this, or at all.

I don't even think Bernie went this far.  What a breath of fresh air.  No wonder Biden will not debate him.

I mean Ike's MIC speech, are you for real?

https://www.patreon.com/posts/episode-123-for-82806064?fbclid=IwAR3UfBxterQmAw27YcP_EOvf9uzF50jwBJaW7OtzvZdnoHZ-vgke0EbwNCI

RFK Jr. is saying what needs to be said on the JFK Records Act, the CIA and foreign-military-trade policy. 

It is a sign of the times that what used to be "liberal" media will go to any length to torpedo RFK Jr. in coming months, as will the Donk establishment-security state.

I am just saying what will happen. 

 

 

[David Josephs]

15 hours ago, Chuck Schwartz said:

David J.,  how did you select Admiral Anderson ("orders came from JCS Adm Anderson ")?

Chief of Naval Operations who sat on the JCS.. Although I would like to amend to add the Adm McDonald took over in Aug 1963.. Yet Rear Adm. Rufus L. Taylor Director Naval Intel (June 1963 – May 1966)... served over both their terms and appears for the docs I've seen to have been involved with the Oswald situation at least a year prior to the assassination.

As Prouty mentions, and I agree, someone with amazing weight was needed to so drastically affect protection in DP, and to orchestrate the cover-up within military facilities (AF1, Andrews, Bethesda)

I cannot say with certainty - so I apologize for giving that impression - and thanks for catching it...  I still don't think it was possible to accomplish without significant advanced planning.. and consensus within the JCS to clear the way.

Control of AF1 & 2 was in the hands of LeMay a 4-star, Burkley and Galloway were 2-star Rear Admirals at the time with Burkley getting his Vice-Admiralship in 1965.  Major General Tom Clifton, another 2-star was pushing for the Wallter Reed autopsy.. Supposedly it was Navy surgeon Kenney who ordered Humes and Boswell.. yet he too was under Galloway.  I'm trying to find if there were any 3-stars as Wehle was also 2-star.

Before LeMay arrives Burkley and Galloway ran the show.. and Dennis David would have to ultimately report to him thru his superiors. David was Cheif of the Day called into Chief Ledbetter's office where SS agents were already there telling them JFK would be coming there for the autopsy...  David tells us his navy corpsmen bring a metal shipping casket in from the back helicopter pad area...  The significant aspect of that is the time... this occurs around 6:30 before and as the "decoy" hearse arrives out front.  MD177:

At about 6:30 P.M., Mr. David said he received a telephone call in which someone said, “Your visitor is on his way; you will need some people to offload.” He then got his own duty sailors together, borrowed some more from the dental school, and assembled them outside the morgue at the loading dock by about 6:40 P.M. Five or six minutes later, at about 6:45, he said a black hearse drove up at the morgue loading dock. He said the driver and the “person riding shotgun” (i.e., front seat passenger) were wearing OR (operating room) smocks. Four or five men in blue suits, whom he assumed were Federal agents, exited the back of the hearse, and supervised and observed while the Navy sailors (approximately 7 or 8 people) working for him offloaded the casket which was in the hearse. He said it was a simple, gray shipping casket such as he frequently saw used later during the Vietnam war. His group of sailors took the casket into the anteroom directly adjacent to the morgue. He then dismissed them and went back upstairs to an administrative office on the second floor of the tower building, “out front” toward the lobby.
When asked to identify names of the sailors in the detail who unloaded the shipping casket, he said the one name he could remember was Donald Rebentisch, with whom he was stationed later in El Toro, and whom he believes was from Detroit.
About 30 minutes later, he said, he saw a motor cavalcade, including a gray Navy ambulance, drive up outside of the front of the Bethesda Tower. He went out on the curved, open second story balcony above the Bethesda Tower lobby and observed Jacqueline Kennedy, Robert McNamara, and several others immediately enter the Bethesda lobby from the motorcade, and go directly up to the 17th floor suite on the elevator (without stopping or pausing for anything). Mr. David said he knew what their destination was by watching the number indicators on the elevator. He was firm in his recollection that the motorcade out front with the gray ambulance arrived well after the gray shipping casket at the rear loading dock.

I posted the below chart earlier and throw it in here again.  McHugh - who was supposed to sit in the middle of the front seat was under LeMay as well.

All this, within this thread is only in reference to my assertion that while RFK Jr. is correct about some of the involvement of the CIA - no doubt - without the full support and activities of key military personnel controlling key sources of the most important aspect of the case, the best evidence, those on the ground have a much more difficult time getting away with it while making Oswald the Patsy.   It's how I've seen it almost from the beginning and is the main reason why the FBI/CIA and many other acronyms fell in line - they may have done much independently, but without assurances of the "cover" by the military, and the stripping of Protection - which didn't happen in Tampa or Chicago - I don't think it happens as it did.

 

Edited May 11, 2023 by David Josephs

[Douglas Caddy]

Deleted

 

Edited May 11, 2023 by Douglas Caddy

[Douglas Caddy]

 

 

How a CIA Officer's Murder Was Used to Silence the Agency’s Greatest Critic (theintercept.com)