The Kennedys v The Deep State

[W. Niederhut]

1 hour ago, James DiEugenio said:

Let me take that back, there is one other comparison, the late Gary Webb.

Jim,

     Gary Webb was outing GHWB/CIA cocaine trafficking to fund the Contras.

     How is that comparable to CIA/GHWB critic Russ Baker raising serious questions about some of RFK, Jr.'s dubious policy positions?

      His opposition to social distancing and vaccines during a deadly pandemic?  Huh?

      Do you agree with RFK, Jr.'s notion that free market mechanisms can mitigate climate change?  Huh?

     That defending sovereignty and liberal democracy from totalitarianism doesn't justify the sacrifice of human life-- i.e., let Hitler, Stalin, and Putin do whatever they want? Huh?

     I agree with Dr. Fauci.  Rupert Murdoch is promoting him to undermine Biden and the Democrats, but there's something seriously wrong with, RFK, Jr.

     He's a guy who used heroin, but opposes the use of vaccines and antidepressants.

     

[James DiEugenio]

William:

This forum is not the place to debate the career of Tony--Mr. AZT--Fauci.  Who, if you recall, said it was impossible for  CV 19 to originate from a lab leak at Wuhan. 

Neither is it the place to debate  why Rupert Murdoch wants to dump Trump, or why he fired Tucker Carlson the week before Oliver Stone was going to be on his show.

To be frank, I and others who originally liked your posts, are kind of bewildered by you and Matt Allison's mania about RFK Jr.  

To compare the media reaction to RIchard A Sprague, for example, would be a parallel.  Why?  Because he wanted to get to the truth about the JFK case.  RFK Jr. wants to release all of the JFK documents.  And he openly talks about the murder of his uncle as being an unsolved murder case. He also tries to remind people of the things his uncle and father were doing that were good for America.  This speech, clearly modeled on JFK's American University Peace Speech, has 9300 comments on You Tube.

And, differing with you, I have already noted why I did not think that Russ Baker's book was a good one.  And I did it at length and in depth.

https://www.kennedysandking.com/reviews/baker-russ-family-of-secrets

 

Edited June 28, 2023 by James DiEugenio

[Benjamin Cole]

24 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

William:

This forum is not the place to debate the career of Tony--Mr. AZT--Fauci.  Who, if you recall, said it was impossible for  CV 19 to originate from a lab leak at Wuhan. 

Neither is it the place to debate  why Rupert Murdoch wants to dump Trump, or why he fired Tucker Carlson the week before Oliver Stone was going to be on his show.

To be frank, I and others who originally liked your posts, are kind of bewildered by you and Matt Allison's mania about RFK Jr.  

To compare the media reaction to RIchard A Sprague, for example, would be a parallel.  Why?  Because he wanted to get to the truth about the JFK case.  RFK Jr. wants to release all of the JFK documents.  And he openly talks about the murder of his uncle as being an unsolved murder case. He also tries to remind people of the things his uncle and father were doing that were good for America.  This speech, clearly modeled on JFK's American University Peace Speech, has 9300 comments on You Tube.

And, differing with you, I have already noted why I did not think that Russ Baker's book was a good one.  And I did it at length and in depth.

https://www.kennedysandking.com/reviews/baker-russ-family-of-secrets

 

From Jim Garrison, to Richard Sprague, to Oliver Stone, to RFK Jr.--you pose a serious threat to the suppression of the truth on the JFKA, or to Deep State funding, and you will get Operation Mockingbirded. 

Except not even--in addition, your staff will get infiltrated, your texts and conversation wiretapped, your private life examined in detail, and poisonous stories planted to be repeated by useful idiots. 

Government investigations launched, prosecutions where possible. 

When Tucker Carlson talked out loud about CIA connections to the JFKA, some here said he was finished. Sure enough, what happened?  

How obvious does this have to get? 

This is not a red-blue kool-aid pissing war. In fact, at present the Deep State has coopted the Donks, but 20 years ago it was the 'Phants.

Maybe it will switch again if RFK Jr. gets elected. 

 

 

 

[James DiEugenio]

I think this is also relevant to this forum.

And the MSM sure does not want this out there by any presidential candidate.  

 

Edited June 28, 2023 by James DiEugenio

[Benjamin Cole]

3 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

I think this is also relevant to this forum.

And the MSM sure does not want this out there by any presidential candidate.  

 

We don't talk much about the RFKA, but Thomas Naguchi, LA  county coroner, found RFK had been shot from behind. Sirhan Sirhan was in front of RFK. 

BTW, there was an effort to railroad Naguchi off his job, as a nut. 

You can see why the security state gets the heebie-jeebies at the thought of RFK Jr., and not Biden, as president, and has set their howling media dogs after RFK Jr. 

Talk about globalist fascists.  And if character assassination does not work....

 

 

[Gil Jesus]

The political atmosphere today should make it clear to anyone with an ounce of brains that there always has been a "deep state" and it is alive and well.

It transcends political party. It controls a President by controlling the information he receives. One President it couldn't control, it murdered and another it did everything it could short of killing him to get rid of him.

You can't be President of the United States if you're going to expose the corruption in this political system. The "deep state" won't let you. Any "outsider" that tries to run will be destroyed, using the power of its allies in the press.

And that includes social media.

Ask Gary Hart what happened to his campaign in 1984. Or simply look at what its doing to RFK, Jr. right now.

I can't understand why it is so hard for people to recognize that the "deep state" which allowed Kennedy to be assassinated were tasked with "investigating" his murder.

A murder, BTW, they covered up to hide the fact that they allowed it to happen.

Talk about putting the fox in charge of the chicken coop.

I've heard people call the assassination a "coup d'etat", but I see it as a return of power to the "deep state" that existed prior to 1960.

 

Edited June 28, 2023 by Gil Jesus

[Benjamin Cole]

1 hour ago, Gil Jesus said:

The political atmosphere today should make it clear to anyone with an ounce of brains that there always has been a "deep state" and it is alive and well.

It transcends political party. It controls Presidents by controlling the information he receives. One President it couldn't control, it murdered and another it did everything it could short of killing him to get rid of him.

You can't be President of the United States if you're going to expose the corruption in this political system. The "deep state" won't let you. If you try to run, it will destroy you, using the power of its allies in the press.

And that includes social media.

Ask Gary Hart what happened to his campaign in 1984. Or simply look at what its doing to RFK, Jr. right now.

I can't understand why it is so hard for people to recognize that the "deep state" which allowed Kennedy to be assassinated were tasked with "investigating" his murder.

Talk about putting the fox in charge of the chicken coop.

 

GJ-

GJ, you and I may disagree on this or that issue. That's fine, maybe I am wrong.

But I know you always post what you earnestly believe is true, free of partisanship, agendas or PC codes.  

You let the chips fall where they may. 

 

[Gil Jesus]

1 minute ago, Benjamin Cole said:

GJ-

GJ, you and I may disagree on this or that issue. That's fine, maybe I am wrong.

But I know you always post what you earnestly believe is true, free of partisanship, agendas or PC codes.  

You let the chips fall where they may. 

 

And when we disagree, we do it as gentlemen and you know because of that you have my utmost respect.

I believe that the US political system is so corrupt that there needs to be term limits on politicians. The system needs to be purged of those whose personal benefits outweigh the needs of the people.

And the only way we can do that is to vote the bastards out.

[Benjamin Cole]

19 minutes ago, Gil Jesus said:

And when we disagree, we do it as gentlemen and you know because of that you have my utmost respect.

I believe that the US political system is so corrupt that there needs to be term limits on politicians. The system needs to be purged of those whose personal benefits outweigh the needs of the people.

And the only way we can do that is to vote the bastards out.

Great ideas. 

[Paul Brancato]

I don’t know what happened to William and Matt either. Either they’re drinking the Koolaid or they were never really onboard in the first place. 

[W. Niederhut]

9 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

William:

This forum is not the place to debate the career of Tony--Mr. AZT--Fauci.  Who, if you recall, said it was impossible for  CV 19 to originate from a lab leak at Wuhan. 

Neither is it the place to debate  why Rupert Murdoch wants to dump Trump, or why he fired Tucker Carlson the week before Oliver Stone was going to be on his show.

To be frank, I and others who originally liked your posts, are kind of bewildered by you and Matt Allison's mania about RFK Jr.  

To compare the media reaction to RIchard A Sprague, for example, would be a parallel.  Why?  Because he wanted to get to the truth about the JFK case.  RFK Jr. wants to release all of the JFK documents.  And he openly talks about the murder of his uncle as being an unsolved murder case. He also tries to remind people of the things his uncle and father were doing that were good for America.  This speech, clearly modeled on JFK's American University Peace Speech, has 9300 comments on You Tube.

And, differing with you, I have already noted why I did not think that Russ Baker's book was a good one.  And I did it at length and in depth.

https://www.kennedysandking.com/reviews/baker-russ-family-of-secrets

 

Jim,

      You're missing the big picture about the RFK, Jr. debate and Russ Baker's recent commentaries, and I say that as a person who has a lot of respect for your work, and your excellent K&K website, (which I supported back in the days before you and Oliver Stone collaborated on JFK Revisited and sycophants like Ben Cole started spamming this forum with Fox News propaganda tropes.)

       I understand that RFK, Jr. is providing a valuable service to the cause of exposing the CIA's involvement in the assassination of JFK, and I also understand that RFK, Jr. has been attacked by the Mockingbird M$M for that reason.  No disagreement there.

      But I am also looking at the larger historical and political picture of the crucial conflict between the Koch/GOP plutocracy in the U.S., (and associated Trump MAGA cult) and progressive democracy.

       Why are Bernie Sanders and the Kennedy family endorsing Joe Biden, and not RFK, Jr.?

      There is so much at stake in this 2024 Presidential election -- climate change mitigation, GOP tax cuts for the rich and GOP Starving-the-Beast, the GOP stacking of the SCOTUS with reactionary, pro-corporate plutocrats, (Citizens United, Shelby v. Holder) voting rights, women's rights, LGBT rights, gun control, etc.

        Progressive Democratic criticism of RFK, Jr. is based on these larger issues-- the big picture.

        As I have said, it appears that Rupert Murdoch and the right wing media moguls are promoting RFK, Jr. in order to undermine Biden and the progressive Democratic agenda.  Murdoch wants low GOP tax rates and reduced government spending on the American working class.

        

Edited June 28, 2023 by W. Niederhut

[Benjamin Cole]

Slate piles on.

Notice no discussion of the national security state, global wars, the JFK Records Act, the chaos at the southern border, Big Pharma---really, nothing except that RFK Jr. is a nut and vaccines, blah, blah, blah. 

I wonder if Slate, Daily Beast, WaPo, NYT, Rolling Stone, CNN et al ---as a behind-the-scenes economy measure---are they are written by one small writing crew? 

Is there some guy in Brooklyn broom closet with a keyboard who types up all the RFK Jr. stories for establishment media for the week? 

Or, does the CIA sent out talking-points copy every Monday am? 

And not one story anywhere about this urgent, frenetic yet mysterious media hysteria to murder the RFK Jr. campaign before it even gets started. 

https://slate.com/human-interest/2023/06/rfk-jr-shirtless-bench-press-pushup-workout.html

[Roger Odisio]

9 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

I think this is also relevant to this forum.

And the MSM sure does not want this out there by any presidential candidate.  

 

This was an incredible discussion between Junior and Bill Mahr about the murder of RFK.  Mahr knew Junior's opinion about what happened and came armed with some "facts" with which to confront him:  Sirhan had read an article about RFK's pro-Israel speech, he wrote RFK must die in his diary, and he had the article in his pocket when he was arrested.

Sirhan was pled guilty.  There was no trial to test these "facts". Junior rightly says he doesn't know about them and blows past them to set out the clear case that Sirhan couldn't have murdered his father.  Using actual facts that should be familiar to most here.

Naguchi's autopsy showed the fatal shot came from below at extremely close range (it left a "carbon tatoo") and entered behind RFK's ear.  Sirhan was always in front of RFK about 5 feet away.  Eugene Cesar, however, a "security guard" was at RFK's elbow and pulled his gun and ducked down as the shots began from Sirhan, the decoy. The notoriously corrupt LAPD showed no interest in Cesar. They did not confiscate Cesar's gun, which he later sold to someone else.

Mahr prides himself as kind of a cynic, an outsider on to the corruption in Washington.  It is remarkable to see his transformation after listening to Junior for about 10 minutes. At first he tries to interrupt Junior's story, then thinks better of it.  As Junior proceeds, he murmurs, that's the same story as Oswald the patsy.  Then, what you're saying seems so clear cut, so open and shut.  And finally, you've convinced me. He concludes by saying someone needs to take on Washington and he thinks Junior is sincere about trying to do it.

One other thing.  It now seems clear, as Junior tells it, that Paul Schrade's insistence that he read RFK's autopsy report was a turning point in Junior's life that propelled him to where he is now.

[W. Niederhut]

4 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

I don’t know what happened to William and Matt either. Either they’re drinking the Koolaid or they were never really onboard in the first place. 

C'mon, Paul.  Your comment here is out of tune.

You and I (and Matt Allison) are progressive, social Democrats, aren't we?

Why are some progressive Democrats-- like Bernie Sanders, the Kennedy family, Russ Baker, and I-- not jumping on the RFK, Jr. bandwagon?

What Koolaid did Bernie Sanders, Russ Baker, Matt Allison, and I drink, in your opinion?  

As I think about RFK, Jr., the issue that initially jaundiced my opinion of him was his anti-vax disinformation.

BUT, I will agree to take a closer look at his positions on progressive issues that matter to me.

Perhaps I'm not giving him a fair shake.

I admire RFK, Jr.'s environmentalism and advocacy for the poor.

I also admire RFK, Jr.'s criticism of the U.S. military industrial complex.

 

Edited June 28, 2023 by W. Niederhut

[James DiEugenio]

Roger;

That is a good summary.  But I think what he says is that his opinion of the JFK case was that something was really weird about that from the moment Ruby shot Oswald.  

But he bought into the official story about RFK,  Until Schrade showed him the autopsy report.  

I talk about this on BOR this week.  Noguchi was friends with Cyril Wecht.  So he called up Wecht and Wecht said he should get neutral observers at the autopsy and he suggested Pierre FInck, if you can comprehend that.  But that is what happened.

HIs autopsy ended up being 64 pages long.  It is a very thorough piece of work. Especially compared to the 7 page JFK autopsy.  

In his book, Noguchi wrote, I have never said that Sirhan shot Robert Kennedy.

Edited June 28, 2023 by James DiEugenio