The Kennedys v The Deep State

[W. Niederhut]

3 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Why nobody whose anybody wants to kill RFK Jr.--Kirk

Try reading The Rolling Stone or The Daily Beast or even some demented commentary here on the EF-JFKA. 

You might get whiff of feculent "stochastic terrorism".

Or Donk-state fascism. 

 

So ironic to see Ben Cole now accusing critics of the MAGA Bomber Trump cult of "stochastic terrorism."

That makes about as much sense as Trump accusing anti-fascist liberals of being "fascists."

Then again, Ben is the guy who kept insisting that Trump's J6 attack on Congress was merely a harmless "scrum" orchestrated by the Deep State.

[Matt Allison]

1 hour ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Try reading The Rolling Stone or The Daily Beast or even some demented commentary here on the EF-JFKA. 

You might get whiff of feculent "stochastic terrorism".

Or Donk-state fascism. 

Is this some sort of sick joke?

[James DiEugenio]

I have never seen anything like this neoliberal assault since Oliver Stone in 1991.

[Benjamin Cole]

26 minutes ago, Matt Allison said:

Is this some sort of sick joke?

Me?

Or what those CIA-backed publications are printing? 

Matt--I have been lifelong pacifist, generally opposed to the US globalized military and corporatized foreign-trade policies. Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan...what can I say? 

Most of my life I was a Donk, until the party became unmoored, and was aligned or coopted by Global Corporatism and the security state. 

I have never seen such an organized assault on a presidential candidate, as we are witnessing now on RFK Jr., who also, in general, appears to support non-interventionism and a re-think of the US in global affairs. 

RFK Jr. is also the only candidate who will open the JFK Records. 

In contrast, Biden has done a snuff-job on the JFK Records. 

Please reconsider your views. 

Edited June 27, 2023 by Benjamin Cole

[Benjamin Cole]

20 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

I have never seen anything like this neoliberal assault since Oliver Stone in 1991.

I wonder if even the term "neoliberal" is outdated. 

We are talking about state-media fascism. 

In the US, there was a long and sordid alliance between the right wing and state fascism. 

Can anyone doubt what poses as America's left-wing has assumed the mantle? 

The assault on RFK Jr., purportedly because of his vaccine policies...tells the tale. 

[Matt Allison]

Ben- George Bush Jr. and Dick Cheney are responsible for the last war the U.S. engaged in, not the Democrats of this country.

Dem politicians were likely hoodwinked by lies, just as Bush's own SOS Colin Powell was.

This is not a case of which of the two parties wants war less; while both believably claim to not want war, only the Dems so far have disowned the man who started the war currently in progress.

That should tell you all you need to know right there.

[James DiEugenio]

Matt:

In relation to what I am going  to talk about at the Cyril Wecht conference this November, what you said above is, to say the least, dubious.

I am going to argue that after JFK's murder, both Johnson and Nixon deliberately destructed his foreign policy.  

When Ford took office, those changes were set in stone when Rumsfeld and Cheney sidelined Kissinger because they thought he was too liberal on detente. This was called the Halloween Massacre, and it got rid of Nelson Rockefeller also.

Historically, this was the true advent in practice of the Neocons. Kennedy's policies of detente with the USSR and Cuba, and fostering neutralism in the Third World, were gone. Under Reagan this got worse and it now impacted both parties.  A good example being Timber Sycamore Syria. Kennedy would not have done that to a secularist leader in the Middle East. Just like he would not have  authorized the sustained bombing of Africa by NATO.

It will be an interesting talk.

 

Edited June 27, 2023 by James DiEugenio

[Benjamin Cole]

4 hours ago, Matt Allison said:

Ben- George Bush Jr. and Dick Cheney are responsible for the last war the U.S. engaged in, not the Democrats of this country.

Dem politicians were likely hoodwinked by lies, just as Bush's own SOS Colin Powell was.

This is not a case of which of the two parties wants war less; while both believably claim to not want war, only the Dems so far have disowned the man who started the war currently in progress.

That should tell you all you need to know right there.

Matt-

If anyone is more odious than Trump or HRC, it is the Bushes and Cheneys.

BTW, Liz Cheney now is a New Donk hero, touted by some establishment D-members as presidential timber.  

 

[Benjamin Cole]

Rob Schneider backs RFK Jr.: ‘Inspiring, hopeful, courageous’

https://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/4067877-rob-schneider-backs-rfk-jr-inspiring-hopeful-courageous/

Jimmy Dore, Glenn Greenwald, Breaking Points, The Hill, Bill Maher...

In brief, independent journalists are backing RFK Jr., or at least giving him a fair hearing. 

A groundswell? 

 

[W. Niederhut]

14 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

I have never seen anything like this neoliberal assault since Oliver Stone in 1991.

Jim,

    I agree that RFK, Jr. has been unfairly attacked by the Mockingbird M$M, (MAGA Ben Cole has started at least 10 redundant threads here on that same subject) but you have also ignored rational, non-Mockingbird criticisms of RFK, Jr.'s dubious policy positions by progressive journalists like Naomi Klein, Russ Baker, and Kirk Gallaway.

    Do you agree with RFK, Jr.'s denunciation of basic COVID pandemic health measures like quarantines, (social distancing) and the use of life saving vaccines?  RFK, Jr. was criticizing the 2020 closure of public gatherings (e.g., in churches and court rooms) as an inappropriate infringement of the Bill of Rights.  In the context of a deadly viral pandemic, that's nuts.

    How about RFK, Jr.'s notion that free markets can solve the catastrophic climate change crisis?  That's nuts.

    How about his implication, in a recent interview, that protecting sovereignty, freedom, and democracy from militant totalitarianism isn't worth the sacrifice of human lives?  That's nuts.

Edited June 27, 2023 by W. Niederhut

[James DiEugenio]

23 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

I have never seen anything like this neoliberal assault since Oliver Stone in 1991.

Let me take that back, there is one other comparison, the late Gary Webb.

[Benjamin Cole]

1 minute ago, James DiEugenio said:

Let me take that back, there is one other comparison, the late Gary Webb.

Have you forgotten Jim Garrison and Richard Sprague? 

[James DiEugenio]

No, not at all, but I wanted to use more recent examples.

[Paul Brancato]

9 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

Jim,

    I agree that RFK, Jr. has been unfairly attacked by the Mockingbird M$M, (MAGA Ben Cole has started at least 10 redundant threads here on that same subject) but you have also ignored rational, non-Mockingbird criticisms of RFK, Jr.'s dubious policy positions by progressive journalists like Naomi Klein, Russ Baker, and Kirk Gallaway.

    Do you agree with RFK, Jr.'s denunciation of basic COVID pandemic health measures like quarantines, (social distancing) and the use of life saving vaccines?  RFK, Jr. was criticizing the 2020 closure of public gatherings (e.g., in churches and court rooms) as an inappropriate infringement of the Bill of Rights.  In the context of a deadly viral pandemic, that's nuts.

    How about RFK, Jr.'s notion that free markets can solve the catastrophic climate change crisis?  That's nuts.

    How about his implication, in a recent interview, that protecting sovereignty, freedom, and democracy from militant totalitarianism isn't worth the sacrifice of human lives?  That's nuts.

After watching Bill Maher’s long sit down, and listening to RFKJr’s foreign policy speech, I think I have a fair picture of him as an individual, an intellectual like his uncle and dad, a man with a big heart trying to widen the Democratic tent. I don’t agree with the criticisms of Klein and Russ Baker. But you bring up a few points. One is your last short paragraph is really out of bounds. He didn’t say that at all. The paragraph before it Inhave to question too by simply stating that governments have been woefully unsuccessful in reigning in corporate environmental abuse, and they seem unable to get any momentum. It’d be easy to say this is all Trump’s fault, but the Democrats have done little too. I don’t believe they are in any way free of corporate pressures. Lip service is all we get. The truer question to ask is what does RFK Jr mean when he says free markets can solve the crisis? I don’t think he means leave it to the oil companies. I think he is coming on board with what Oliver Stone is talking about - nuclear. It finally dawned on me, after listening to his reasoning, that any alternative to fossil fuels has been and will be subject to the enormous financial pressure of the fossil fuel industry. Don’t you think it’s time we consider the newer versions of nuclear reactors? The free market could be useful, and I fear the outsized influence of fossil fuels makes that difficult. 
Covid policy was all over the place, state to state. In California the strictest mandates have hastened the destruction of the performing arts, something I’m witnessing on a very personal level. I can’t help but remember the 6ft rule that the CDC pushed, and the way outdoor gatherings were called super spreader events. Physical distancing would have been a better descriptive than social distancing. Social alienation is very deadly. You know that. It’s the best explanation for the plague of gun violence in America. RFK Jr’s worries about the effects of anti-depressants is well reasoned, and his inside knowledge of the power of chemical companies and corporate polluters and the revolving door to the CDC and FDA is a warning we should respect. It’s absolutely true. And now 60 minutes did a piece on a similar situation with the major defense contractors and their civilian watchdogs at the Pentagon. He is the only candidate that sees corporate power as a destroyer of our Democracy.

[Benjamin Cole]

11 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:

After watching Bill Maher’s long sit down, and listening to RFKJr’s foreign policy speech, I think I have a fair picture of him as an individual, an intellectual like his uncle and dad, a man with a big heart trying to widen the Democratic tent. I don’t agree with the criticisms of Klein and Russ Baker. But you bring up a few points. One is your last short paragraph is really out of bounds. He didn’t say that at all. The paragraph before it Inhave to question too by simply stating that governments have been woefully unsuccessful in reigning in corporate environmental abuse, and they seem unable to get any momentum. It’d be easy to say this is all Trump’s fault, but the Democrats have done little too. I don’t believe they are in any way free of corporate pressures. Lip service is all we get. The truer question to ask is what does RFK Jr mean when he says free markets can solve the crisis? I don’t think he means leave it to the oil companies. I think he is coming on board with what Oliver Stone is talking about - nuclear. It finally dawned on me, after listening to his reasoning, that any alternative to fossil fuels has been and will be subject to the enormous financial pressure of the fossil fuel industry. Don’t you think it’s time we consider the newer versions of nuclear reactors? The free market could be useful, and I fear the outsized influence of fossil fuels makes that difficult. 
Covid policy was all over the place, state to state. In California the strictest mandates have hastened the destruction of the performing arts, something I’m witnessing on a very personal level. I can’t help but remember the 6ft rule that the CDC pushed, and the way outdoor gatherings were called super spreader events. Physical distancing would have been a better descriptive than social distancing. Social alienation is very deadly. You know that. It’s the best explanation for the plague of gun violence in America. RFK Jr’s worries about the effects of anti-depressants is well reasoned, and his inside knowledge of the power of chemical companies and corporate polluters and the revolving door to the CDC and FDA is a warning we should respect. It’s absolutely true. And now 60 minutes did a piece on a similar situation with the major defense contractors and their civilian watchdogs at the Pentagon. He is the only candidate that sees corporate power as a destroyer of our Democracy.

Paul

I may disagree with you on some events or issues, but you are always a civil voice in the EF-JFKA.

May others imitate your example. 

I disagree with you on RFK Jr. stance on fossil fuels. I think he should voice clear support for a weaning off of fossil fuels, possibly pushed through pollution taxes, over a defined period, such as 25 years. However, RFK Jr.'s stance on certain issues does not undercut the whole of his candidacy. 

Many here are ardent supporters (and "ardent" is an understatement) of Biden, despite Biden's snuff job on the JFK Records. I can't imagine that, but that is what a forum is for. 

For people to express their views, civilly.