Paul Landis credibility MAY have taken a couple hits here- 1983 and ("NEW") 2010 statements

[Charles Blackmon]

28 minutes ago, Larry Hancock said:

 

It is true that the Secret Service seems to have been very casual about handling evidence and you can explain that with poor training, bad supervision, or the chaos of the moment.  

What about the stories of SS agents out drinking/partying until 5 or so in the morning? Might have had an effect on their judgment.

[Larry Hancock]

Impaired judgement certainly could be a factor, although he says there was not drinking Debra Conway interviewed the club owner who freely admitted they kept liquor and served it at the club (I think he said something like "why would somebody be here at 3AM drinking coke"?)  and all the patrons including the SS were drinking; he even said an agent came in some time afterwards and asked him not to say that since things had been really  hard on the agents and they really didn't need charge that along with everything else...

On the other hand, after the shooting and the car ride their systems should really have been peaked out by chemicals and if nothing else I'd expect them to be hyper - but diminished faculties would go nicely with incompetence if he wants to admit that - I'm just not willing to give him any sort of break in regard to some sort of special concern being in play about reporting and handling the evidence properly in order not to make waves in the first couple of hours after the attack.... 

[Joe Bauer]

I remember viewing an interview of one of the Parkland Hospital ER nurses where she mentions seeing a bullet on JFK's stretcher ( gurney? ) next to his head.

Her name was Phyllis Hall.

If her story is true, some may say it bolsters Landis's claim of placing the bullet he found there.

Here is a link to Nurse Hall's recollection statements.

The bullet next to JFK's head part starts a little after the 2 minute mark of the video.

 

 

 

 

JFK shooting witness: nurse recalls day President Kennedy was shot in Dallas

Edited September 12, 2023 by Joe Bauer

[James DiEugenio]

6 hours ago, Larry Hancock said:

I think I have to chime in here with what I think would be a critical point - that is the reality that within one to two hours of the attack on JFK there was no "pressure" at all on any law enforcement officer to "toe the line" media wise. 

Larry, 

In the film Parkland Doctors, it was revealed that right after Perry stopped talking, a well dessed gentleman came up to him and grabbed him by the arm.

He said words to the effect, "Don't ever say that again."

So yes there was pressure being applied that soon.

[Larry Hancock]

Jim, I would have to know a lot more detail about who said that to Perry to accept that as "pressure"  in respect to what I was talking about as far as some sort of self induced hesitance for law enforcement in respect to collecting and handling evidence within an hour or so of the attack.  It is not  unusual for law enforcement to try and shut down comments to the media in regard to the investigation (ie don't give away what we know or don't know, especially in regard to medical matters)  but Landis does not say someone shut him up, he seems to imply he did it to himself for some  unstated reason....or that he simply screwed up any standard evidence handling protocol strictly on his own (which is what it sounds like he is claiming).  

[K K Lane]

It would be nice to get Phyllis Hall together with Paul Landis to sort out any potential overlap in their experiences.

Note that In a different interview Phyllis Hall claims: “I could see a bullet lodged between his ear and his shoulder,” which is different than seeing the bullet laying "perpendicular" "on the cart" as in the youtube video.

https://www.nydailynews.com/2013/11/10/nurse-claims-jfk-had-another-bullet-lodged-in-body-after-assassination/

Edited September 12, 2023 by K K Lane

[Leslie Sharp]

5 hours ago, Larry Hancock said:

Impaired judgement certainly could be a factor, although he says there was not drinking Debra Conway interviewed the club owner who freely admitted they kept liquor and served it at the club (I think he said something like "why would somebody be here at 3AM drinking coke"?)  and all the patrons including the SS were drinking; he even said an agent came in some time afterwards and asked him not to say that since things had been really  hard on the agents and they really didn't need charge that along with everything else...

On the other hand, after the shooting and the car ride their systems should really have been peaked out by chemicals and if nothing else I'd expect them to be hyper - but diminished faculties would go nicely with incompetence if he wants to admit that - I'm just not willing to give him any sort of break in regard to some sort of special concern being in play about reporting and handling the evidence properly in order not to make waves in the first couple of hours after the attack.... 

I'm dismayed that in their enthusiasm — and regardless of how significant a smoking bullet might be to the investigation — David Talbot and Jefferson Morley seem to have failed (thus far) to publicly acknowledge the fundamental issues with Landis's personal story, so I'm relieved to read your concerns, @Larry Hancock. 

I'm even more dismayed that NYT, The Guardian, The Independent, Vanity Fair have inexplicably leapt over basic precepts of investigative journalism to publish sensational headlines, eureka! witness breaks his silence and raises new questions which leads me to consider concerns expressed by others that this might be a limited hangout or a more complex "revelation of the method."
 

• If SS agents weren't trained in the fundamentals of crime scene preservation, evidence gathering and reporting, weren't they at least vetted for common sense?
• Why then did Landis remove evidence from a crime scene (limo) and relocate it to a stretcher instead of handing it off to his superior or at the very least local authorities?
• Why didn't he mark the bullet?
• Why didn't he record his finding in a report?
• Did PTSD impede him from fulfilling his oath to support and defend democracy in the ensuing years?
• How could he avoid the WCR and Specter's "magic bullet" theory for decades?
• Did he state as late as 2013 that he believed a lone gunman was responsible for Kennedy's assassination?
• Did the trauma overwhelm him for six decades?

In his own words published by alt-right Gateway Pundit which headlines Robert Kennedy Jr's reaction, Landis states:

"There was nobody there to secure the scene, and that was a big, big bother to me. All the agents that were there were focused on the president."

So, Landis was concerned that the scene hadn't been secured yet he himself lifted a bullet (or fragment??)  from the limo, took it inside the building, placed it on a stretcher, and never reported it or spoke of it publicly again — until the 60th anniversary ... not the  55th, or 57th, or 59th, but The 60th.

If leading spokespersons for "the community" fail to address the most basic questions, how long before conspiracy skeptics and cynics add this episode to the list?

Edited September 12, 2023 by Leslie Sharp

[James DiEugenio]

6 hours ago, Larry Hancock said:

I would have to know a lot more detail about who said that to Perry to accept that as "pressure".

Larry, one of the big problems we have in this case is that witness intimidation is so prevalent yet so hidden.

The incident about Perry and the Bethesda doctors did not become known until many years later when a reporter finally decided to place his notes online.

And once Oswald was arrested, I think we can all say that was it for any kind of open ended inquiry. And he was arrested around the time the Clark/Perry press conference started.

 

PS Nice find about Hall, Joe.

 

Edited September 12, 2023 by James DiEugenio

[Micah Mileto]

20 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

Larry, 

In the film Parkland Doctors, it was revealed that right after Perry stopped talking, a well dessed gentleman came up to him and grabbed him by the arm.

He said words to the effect, "Don't ever say that again."

So yes there was pressure being applied that soon.

We need that film to come out already. 7 years is long enough.

[Charles Blackmon]

19 minutes ago, Leslie Sharp said:

 

• Why then did Landis remove evidence from a crime scene (limo) and relocate it to a stretcher instead of handing it off to his superior or at the very least local authorities?

Guess he screwed up. We will get a chance to hear his explanations I am sure. What about all the failures to follow rules of evidence by the Dallas police that weekend? What about Roscoe White shenanigans? When do we get explanations for that?

 

 

[Larry Hancock]

I certainly would agree about witness intimidation - self or otherwise - over the following days/weeks but I'm still maintaining that didn't happen instantaneously - certainly not to law enforcement nor would I consider Landis a "witness".   I'm not even saying that part of what he says is not true (still would like a photo of him at  or looking into the limo though).  If he had said, hey I saw fragments, I found an entire bullet, I removed it and put it on a gurney and then realized I had screwed up and told - somebody in authority - then I could see it.  As it is he just joins several other people in positions of legal authority who later anecdotally described fragments, holes in the windshield, bullets, pieces of bone, etc who handled evidence and failed to document it or report it.  Its a wonder they didn't lose the body....

What I am saying is that I'm not giving him a break for doing something incredibly stupid with evidence  and then implying that he was  under some sort of immediate pressure not to immediately report or document what he had  done/not done - because it might make waves. 

I would even have cut him a break if he had written a letter to the HSCA and tried to get on the record quietly as Burkley  did. 

 

 

 

[Leslie Sharp]

55 minutes ago, Charles Blackmon said:

Guess he screwed up. We will get a chance to hear his explanations I am sure. What about all the failures to follow rules of evidence by the Dallas police that weekend? What about Roscoe White shenanigans? When do we get explanations for that?

 

 

You're making my point, Charles.  Why would seasoned researchers who have exposed the ineptitude of DPD turn around and accept what could be read as Landis's belated mea culpa unconditionally? Why not "ask the questions"?


 

David Talbot

September 9 at 11:35 PM  · 

 

The Confessions of a Secret Service Agent -- Former agent Paul Landis -- as he approaches 90 -- is apparently a low-key guy. But what he writes in his new book about the Kennedy assassination will change history forever. Landis, who rode on the rear bumper of the Secret Service car that followed JFK's limousine in Dallas with his partner Clint Hill, finally gives evidence that demolishes the magic bullet story as the fairytale it has always been. Landis's account of that fateful day also casts grave doubt on the lone gunman theory -- the twin fable that underpins the official Warren Report.

For nearly 60 years, the New York Times -- the mainstream media's gold standard -- has clung to the increasingly tattered Warren Report. Now even the Times has finally begun to question the official story. https://www.nytimes.com/.../jfk-assassination-witness...

This should open the reporting floodgates: since there were clearly at least two shooters that day, who were they? Who did they work for?

By pursuing the mystery that continues to haunt America, the New York Times and the rest of the press can begin to win back its credibility. Now that the official version of the Kennedy assassination has been debunked, other more tantalizing stories beckon.

As the Bible (and Allen Dulles) said, "You shall know the truth, and it shall set you free."


In fairness, Talbot is using Landis' revelation to apply further pressure on mainstream media, but what if Landis's mea culpa unravels under scrutiny that should have been applied from the outset to get ahead of the cynics? (obviously I'm projecting here ... Coup in Dallas should not have been published until we secured professional written authentication of the datebook, full stop.)

This should open the reporting floodgates: since there were clearly at least two shooters that day, who were they? Who did they work for?

By pursuing the mystery that continues to haunt America, the New York Times and the rest of the press can begin to win back its credibility. Now that the official version of the Kennedy assassination has been debunked, other more tantalizing stories beckon.

Edited September 12, 2023 by Leslie Sharp

[Jonathan Cohen]

23 minutes ago, Leslie Sharp said:

You're making my point, Charles.  Why would seasoned researchers who have exposed the ineptitude of DPD turn around and accept what could be read as Landis's belated mea culpa unconditionally? Why not "ask the questions"?

On what planet are "seasoned researchers" blindly accepting Landis' story "unconditionally" ? Nothing of the sort is happening. It's also bizarre for you to make such a statement when you're the one unwilling to engage in honest debate about the authenticity of the alleged datebook at the heart of "Coup in Dallas" ...

[Charles Blackmon]

I look forward to hearing more from Mr. Landis in coming weeks about his curious actions 60 years ago and his changed statements. Maybe if anybody here reads his book they could post their thoughts.

[Leslie Sharp]

6 minutes ago, Jonathan Cohen said:

On what planet are "seasoned researchers" blindly accepting Landis' story "unconditionally" ? Nothing of the sort is happening. It's also bizarre for you to make such a statement when you're the one unwilling to engage in honest debate about the authenticity of the alleged datebook at the heart of "Coup in Dallas" ...

In fairness, Talbot is using Landis' revelation to apply further pressure on mainstream media, but what if Landis's mea culpa unravels under scrutiny that should have been applied from the outset to get ahead of the cynics? (obviously I'm projecting here ... Coup in Dallas should not have been published until we secured professional written authentication of the datebook, full stop.)

This should open the reporting floodgates: since there were clearly at least two shooters that day, who were they? Who did they work for?

By pursuing the mystery that continues to haunt America, the New York Times and the rest of the press can begin to win back its credibility. Now that the official version of the Kennedy assassination has been debunked, other more tantalizing stories beckon.