Paul Landis credibility MAY have taken a couple hits here- 1983 and ("NEW") 2010 statements

[Leslie Sharp]

1 hour ago, Nick Bartetzko said:

Mr Cohen....see link....

 

Thanks, Nick. 

It has been my experience that @Jonathan Cohen occasionally lobs declarative statements without doing his own research. In this instance, I assumed he was attacking my reference to the records maintained by Pierre Lafitte rather than the question of Dr. Duke's role at Parkland that day.

[Ron Bulman]

Take me back in time.  Dr. Red Duke used to do regular Health Reports that appeared on one of the FW/D news casts and throughout Texas.  From Time Away, to Kidney Stones, to Burnout, to Cabbage, Chili and more.  A true Texas classic.

Bing Videos

[Leslie Sharp]

8 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

Take me back in time.  Dr. Red Duke used to do regular Health Reports that appeared on one of the FW/D news casts and throughout Texas.  From Time Away, to Kidney Stones, to Burnout, to Cabbage, Chili and more.  A true Texas classic.

Bing Videos

Yes, a very colorful homo universalis.

[Nick Bartetzko]

Dr Duke was quite interesting indeed.... Heard about him years ago and it's interesting to me how the doctors careers morphed like Dr Perry ending up in Washington state, Dr Salyer becoming a craniofacial plastic surgeon etc

[Pamela Brown]

There is another aspect to Landis' story that needs to be addressed, and that is his timeline.  From what I am reading so far, Landis has zero knowledge of what happened to the limo at Parkland Hospital and when. I am waiting to read his book before chiming in on that...

[Sandy Larsen]

On 9/13/2023 at 5:44 PM, Ron Bulman said:

"[Landis] recalls hearing the gunshot ring out in Dealey Plaza while he was walking just feet away from the president in 1963, he told The New York Times."

BS.  He was on the right rear running board the whole time. .... This is only more confirmation to me Landis memory shall we say has slipped.

 

Ron,

The New York Times article is hearsay and shouldn't be assumed to be 100% correct. I mean, why assume it is correct and therefore Landis must have changed his story?

I wonder if the 1983 interview is incorrectly reported. Maybe the reporter just assumed that the bullet was a fragment.

Furthermore, it's possible that the reporter failed to ask Landis what he did with the bullet, and when he wrote the report he lazily said Landis gave the bullet to someone.

My sister was once involved in an accident where a chair lift failure resulted in riders being flung off. One person was killed. A news reporter interviewed my sister for the local newspaper. My sister later found several errors in his report. It happens.

 

[David Von Pein]

11 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

I wonder if the 1983 interview is incorrectly reported. Maybe the reporter just assumed that the bullet was a fragment.

Nope. That's not possible (unless you want to believe the very same TWO mistakes/assumptions about the "bullet fragment" and "gave to somebody" occurred in both 1983 and again in 1988), because in November 1988, five years after his '83 interview, a different reporter quoted  Landis saying this:

"I distinctly remember there was a bullet fragment on the seat which I picked up and handed to somebody."

1983:

 

1988:

 

Edited September 16, 2023 by David Von Pein

[Vince Palamara]

2 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

Nope. That's not possible (unless you want to believe the very same TWO mistakes/assumptions about the "bullet fragment" and "gave to somebody" occurred in both 1983 and again in 1988), because five years, in November 1988 later a different reporter quoted  Landis saying this:

"I distinctly remember there was a bullet fragment on the seat which I picked up and handed to somebody."

1983:

 

1988:

 

David, what do you think Landis' motive is? To sell books? My enthusiasm over his book is in the toilet and it isn't even released yet! What a difference a few days makes.

[David Von Pein]

2 hours ago, Vince Palamara said:

David, what do you think Landis' motive is? To sell books?

I really haven't the slightest idea, Vince.

Mr. Landis certainly gives the appearance of being a very forthright and truthful person. And I certainly don't relish the notion of calling him an outright teller of deliberate falsehoods. But the fact remains: He changed his story significantly over these last 40 years. I don't think there can be any question about that fact after you take a look at the two newspaper clippings I again provided above in my last post.

Perhaps his advanced age has taken its toll on his memory and his ability to be able to recall things clearly and correctly. But when we've got TWO different interviews from the 1980s (when Mr. Landis was a much younger man) which are verifying BOTH of the key elements of his "bullet" story --- i.e., it was a bullet "fragment" he saw/handled and "gave to somebody" --- then it seems pretty clear what the truth really is when it comes to Mr. Landis' 11/22/63 involvement with any type of "bullets" or "fragments" in the limo.

Mr. Landis, IMO, needs to be confronted with BOTH of the above newspaper articles at the same time, which each say the very same thing concerning the matter of the "bullet fragment".

I'd be interested to know if Landis thinks he was misquoted in both of those articles, five years apart.

 

Edited September 16, 2023 by David Von Pein

[Vince Palamara]

16 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

I really haven't the slightest idea, Vince.

Mr. Landis certainly gives the appearance of being a very forthright and truthful person. And I certainly don't relish the notion of calling him an outright teller of deliberate falsehoods. But the fact remains: He changed his story significantly over these last 40 years. I don't think there can be any question about that fact after you take a look at the two newspaper clippings I again provided above in my last post.

Perhaps his advanced age has taken its toll on his memory and his ability to be able to recall things clearly and correctly. But when we've got TWO different interviews from the 1980s (when Mr. Landis was a much younger man) which are verifying BOTH of the key elements of his "bullet" story --- i.e., it was a bullet "fragment" he saw/handled and "gave to somebody" --- then it seems pretty clear what the truth really is when it comes to Mr. Landis' 11/22/63 involvement with any type of "bullets" or "fragments" in the limo.

Mr. Landis, IMO, needs to be confronted with BOTH of the above newspaper articles at the same time, which each say the very same thing concerning the matter of the "bullet fragment".

I'd be interested to know if Landis thinks he was misquoted in both of those articles, five years apart.

 

1983, 1988 and 2010 (Blaine's book- Landis was interviewed and took part in the television documentary):

[David Von Pein]

I suppose that Paul Landis could, if he wanted to, now start saying that he did indeed retrieve a bullet "fragment" from the limo and "gave it to somebody", but he ALSO saw and picked up a "whole bullet" on the back seat and took it into the hospital. And the reason he never told a single soul about the "whole bullet" ON THE DAY OF THE ASSASSINATION was because.....well.....uh.....um.....[fill in your own choice of reasons here, because I can't think of a single good one myself].

But I think that even that opportunity may have passed Mr. Landis by, because I read a few days back that Landis has, indeed, claimed he was "misquoted" in one of the earlier newspaper articles.

So he now needs to have BOTH the '83 and the '88 articles shoved before his eyes at the same time while a live microphone awaits his response.

 

Edited September 16, 2023 by David Von Pein

[Pat Speer]

35 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

I suppose that Paul Landis could, if he wanted to, now start saying that he did indeed retrieve a bullet "fragment" from the limo and "gave it to somebody", but he ALSO saw and picked up a "whole bullet" on the back seat and took it into the hospital. And the reason he never told a single soul about the "whole bullet" ON THE DAY OF THE ASSASSINATION was because.....well.....uh.....um.....[fill in your own choice of reasons here, because I can't think of a single good one myself].

But I think that even that opportunity may have passed Mr. Landis by, because I read a few days back that Landis has, indeed, claimed he was "misquoted" in one of the earlier newspaper articles.

So he now needs to have BOTH the '83 and the '88 articles shoved before his eyes at the same time while a live microphone awaits his response.

 

The reality is that everyone's memories change over time. It's been proven over and over and over again. I have chatted with Bill Newman about this, and he kinda throws up his hands. He said he now remembers hearing three shots, and has no idea why he initially said he'd heard but two. He said he could understand why someone would look at that old footage and conclude he'd only heard two., and that he might even agree with them...Except for the fact that he now clearly remembers three. 

[Sandy Larsen]

3 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

Nope.

 

Yep, looks like you're right about that.

Thanks to all the people who sought and found the various interviews, not only of Landis, but also of the nurse that saw the stretcher bullet, etc.

I look forward to hearing Landis's explanation.

I do wonder if it's possible that the 1988 reporter got some material from the 1983 interview. That does happen. (Thinking of Gerald Posner.)

 

[David Von Pein]

25 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

I do wonder if it's possible that the 1988 reporter got some material from the 1983 interview.

But then there's also the excerpt supplied by Vince Palamara above from the 2010 book that Landis was a part of ("The Kennedy Detail"), in which Landis seems to be confirming the part about finding only a FRAGMENT, with that fragment being located "in the back where the top would be secured".

So there are TWO things there (in the 2010 book) that perfectly match what Landis was saying in 1983 -- "fragment" and the "top" of the back seat (vs. just the "back seat").

But now, in 2023, that "fragment" found on the TOP of the back seat has been changed by Mr. Landis into a WHOLE BULLET that he found on the TOP of the back seat.

So the location of the found bullet item has remained the same in Landis' accounts from 1983 to 2023, but the size of that item has grown quite a bit indeed.

 

Edited September 16, 2023 by David Von Pein

[Tom Gram]

15 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

But then there's also the excerpt supplied by Vince Palamara above from the 2010 book that Landis was a part of ("The Kennedy Detail"), in which Landis seems to be confirming the part about finding only a FRAGMENT, with that fragment being located "in the back where the top would be secured".

So there are TWO things there (in the 2010 book) that perfectly match what Landis was saying in 1983 -- "fragment" and the "top" of the back seat (vs. just the "back seat").

But now, in 2023, that "fragment" found on the TOP of the back seat has been changed by Mr. Landis into a WHOLE BULLET that he found on the TOP of the back seat.

So the location of the found bullet item has remained the same in Landis' accounts from 1983 to 2023, but the size of that item has grown quite a bit indeed.

 

Greg Parker posted this Wikipedia quote over at ROKC. This “processing memories”  business is quite the red flag, IMO. I’m speculating, but it almost seems like this Robenhalt character saw these earlier accounts of a bullet fragment and  “convinced” Landis over time that he’d actually recovered a whole bullet. Parker drew a parallel to the technique used with JVB to “recover” her “memories” of a tryst with Oswald in New Orleans after she mentioned in the 90s that she’d worked at Riley Coffee Co. in 1963: 

https://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t2776-secret-service-agent-paul-landis-claims-he-retrieved-a-bullet-from-behind-jfks-limo-seat#42884

Robenhalt helped former Secret Service agent Paul Landis "process his memories" of the JFK Assassination, enabling Landis to write his memoir The Final Witness (2023).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Robenalt