Rob Reiner And Soledad O'Brien Aim To Reveal JFK's Real Killers

[Cory Santos]

9 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

A trusted source  heard the first installment.

Tosh Plumlee says that he flew Howard Hunt into Dallas.

Can anyone confirm this?

What do you mean by trusted source?   I am listening to it right now.  So far interviews with Jefferson Morley and Dick Russell.   Nothing secretive.   

[James DiEugenio]

I asked a simple question.

Does the show say that Plumlee flew Hunt into Dallas?

[Cliff Varnell]

2 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

I asked a simple question.

Does the show say that Plumlee flew Hunt into Dallas?

John Roselli, not Hunt.

Tosh:  “We took-off before day break on November 21, 1963 expecting to arrive in Tampa about sunup. We were to pick up other personal at Tampa. One of these people was John Roselli, whom I knew.”

 

 

 

[Cory Santos]

1 hour ago, Cliff Varnell said:

John Roselli, not Hunt.

Tosh:  “We took-off before day break on November 21, 1963 expecting to arrive in Tampa about sunup. We were to pick up other personal at Tampa. One of these people was John Roselli, whom I knew.”

 

 

 

Did he say a third person was on the plane?   At some point I thought he did.

I did not hear this being discussed on the first episode-which anyone can listen to.   You don’t even need to know the secret hand shake.  Then again Cliff, as you know, I had a very busy work week so I might have been dozing a little.   My wife was so tired from her attorney work that she was asleep by 8.   

[John Deignan]

3 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

I asked a simple question.

Does the show say that Plumlee flew Hunt into Dallas?

At the 15:50 mark of episode 1 Rob Reiner says “ We met with CIA asset named Tosh Plumlee who flew CIA agent E Howard Hunt and mobster Johnny Roselli to Dallas that day…”

[Larry Hancock]

We and I have been over and over Tosh Plumlee here in the forum.  I was in contact with him and his family (daughter) back in the Compuserve JFK forum days, even invited her and her friends to present at a Lancer conference.  Then I did extensive research in his documents (most of which consist of his asking to talk to the FBI while in jail for check kiting, aircraft theft or other such charges).  I also did a chronological search of his statements about Dallas and it was obvious he had changed and elaborated his story over the years...considerably.  I was never able to verify any of his so called intelligence contacts, even the really wild ones he sent me about being recruited at a small airport in the Dallas area (not Red Bird) before he could even fly.  There is little doubt that eventually he did learn to fly and had an active life (after leaving his family) in smuggling and other sketchy affairs as a pilot. 

What really pulled it all together was his providing detailed stories about Dallas, the plans and the abort, with JFK and company knowing he was riding into an ambush - and taking Jackie along - and Plumlee getting all the details on it after the fact when a senior CIA officer flew down to Florida to go over it all and explain it personally to Plumlee.

On the other hand he is a great story teller, very sincere, very flexible, extremely good at pulling elements from elsewhere into his narrative, and his story will never go away - its just too good and fits with two many scenarios promoted over time. 

Edited November 11, 2023 by Larry Hancock

[Jonathan Cohen]

2 minutes ago, Larry Hancock said:

I also did a chronological search of his statements about Dallas and it was obvious he had changed and elaborated his story over the years...considerably.

Larry, as always, thank you for your clear-eyed assessment of Plumlee's outlandish and uncorroborated claims.

[Joe Bauer]

10 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Joe:

Are you familiar with all of Plumlee's story and how long its been around?

Honestly, no.

But my main point is, if Hunt was in Dallas that day, he obviously was flown there.

His children's recollections did not mention their dad being gone from their home for several days before 11,22,1963. Only that day and maybe the day before.

In an interview with the Los Angeles Times, St. John Hunt does admit to telling previous lies about his dad's whereabouts on that fateful day. He says he was instructed by Hunt in 1974 to back up an alibi for his whereabouts. "I did a lot of lying for my father in those days," St. John confessed. E. Howard Hunt's most frequently used alibi for that day was that he was at his Potomac, Maryland home watching TV with his children.

Yet, asked in a Slate interview in 2004 about "conspiracy theories about your being in Dallas the day JFK was killed," E. Howard Hunt nervously replied "No comment."

 

Edited November 11, 2023 by Joe Bauer

[Sandy Larsen]

The only things I know about Tosh Plumlee are those documented on Spartacus Educational. I find nothing in what I've read that indicates Tosh is a fraud.

I believe that there were multiple assassination plans for 11/22/63. So it doesn't surprise me that there might have been an abortion team flown in by Tosh. (Though I don't know enough to explain what Tosh was doing on the south knoll if he wasn't a part of the abortion team.)

As usual, I am open minded with regard to this story. But I won't simply adopt other people's conclusions that he's a fraud. I need to be convinced with some evidence.

It seems to me that if someone wanted to make himself look important, he would fabricate his knowing about the assassination plan prior to the assassination, rather than knowledge about an abortion team.

 

[Kirk Gallaway]

Yeah I saw that film of Tosh Plumlee's supposed account of flying to Dallas. I don't remember anyone else he talked about being on the flight other than Johnny Roselli, other than maybe a Cuban name?  I can't remember. I didn't believe him. It was shown on  Newsmax a number of times, maybe 10 years ago.

 

Hey I got this in my feed this morning from the New York magazine's "Intelligencer." Sounds like another CIA front!!  heh heh

What really happened to JFK? How one dogged journalist proved that the CIA lied about Lee Harvey Oswald — and spent decades covering it up.

I rolled my eyes but when  I opened it, then I saw 2 pictures , one of George Johannides and the other LHO, but I couldn't scroll and they are asking me to subscribe.

Is this Morley? Can anyone scroll down on this and resend it to here?

 

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/jfk-assassination-documents-national-archives.html

 

[Cliff Varnell]

3 hours ago, Larry Hancock said:

We and I have been over and over Tosh Plumlee here in the forum.  I was in contact with him and his family (daughter) back in the Compuserve JFK forum days, even invited her and her friends to present at a Lancer conference.  Then I did extensive research in his documents (most of which consist of his asking to talk to the FBI while in jail for check kiting, aircraft theft or other such charges).  I also did a chronological search of his statements about Dallas and it was obvious he had changed and elaborated his story over the years...considerably.  I was never able to verify any of his so called intelligence contacts, even the really wild ones he sent me about being recruited at a small airport in the Dallas area (not Red Bird) before he could even fly.  There is little doubt that eventually he did learn to fly and had an active life (after leaving his family) in smuggling and other sketchy affairs as a pilot. 

What really pulled it all together was his providing detailed stories about Dallas, the plans and the abort, with JFK and company knowing he was riding into an ambush - and taking Jackie along - and Plumlee getting all the details on it after the fact when a senior CIA officer flew down to Florida to go over it all and explain it personally to Plumlee.

On the other hand he is a great story teller, very sincere, very flexible, extremely good at pulling elements from elsewhere into his narrative, and his story will never go away - its just too good and fits with two many scenarios promoted over time. 

Larry,

Plumlee’s 2010 EF posts on his “abort team”  flight to Dallas don’t mention Hunt.  Any idea when that became part of his story?

[James DiEugenio]

This is what I mean and Larry understands this.

Where did Hunt come in?

I thought it was Rosselli.

But after reading two biographies of Rosselli, he was not in Dallas that day.

So Plumlee's story has problems.

Edited November 12, 2023 by James DiEugenio

[Richard Booth]

9 hours ago, John Deignan said:

At the 15:50 mark of episode 1 Rob Reiner says “ We met with CIA asset named Tosh Plumlee who flew CIA agent E Howard Hunt and mobster Johnny Roselli to Dallas that day…”

Yeah this is exactly what it said. It was asserted as factual and of all the things to highlight he's gonna go with THIS?

 

[Larry Hancock]

 

Cliff, as far as I can recall, the first half dozen versions of Plumlee's flight and the "abort" team, where Roselli appeared at some point, never made any mention of Hunt at all.   Nor did he mention Martino who he later began incorporating into it.  I have no idea when and where Hunt showed up but Plumlee was skilled at embellishing his material by pulling in real names, material from JFK books and probably gossip as well.

[Richard Booth]

4 minutes ago, Larry Hancock said:

 

Cliff, as far as I can recall, the first half dozen versions of Plumlee's flight and the "abort" team, where Roselli appeared at some point, never made any mention of Hunt at all.   Nor did he mention Martino who he later began incorporating into it.  I have no idea when and where Hunt showed up but Plumlee was skilled at embellishing his material by pulling in real names, material from JFK books and probably gossip as well.

 

Embellish is right. The guy is not the least bit credible and his story is nonsensical to begin with. I just don't believe him.