Is anyone aware of this book? I was not.

[Sandy Larsen]

14 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

But I fear we're supposed to take it seriously...and that some of the same people who currently attack reasonable people for not taking the words of the Parkland witnesses as gospel---will pull a 180 like Lifton and start attacking reasonable people for not believing some of the Parkland witnesses were in on the plot. 

 

Pat,

I've never heard of a conspiracy theory where it is thought that Parkland witnesses were in on the plot.

Can you give me names of some who believe that, and what the role of the Parkland witnesses supposedly was?

 

[Pat Speer]

1 hour ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

Pat,

I've never heard of a conspiracy theory where it is thought that Parkland witnesses were in on the plot.

Can you give me names of some who believe that, and what the role of the Parkland witnesses supposedly was?

 

This is what Lifton was working on over his last few years. It was discussed on some threads that came out after he died. As I recall it, he had two or three of the Parkland doctors in an ambulance just outside Dealey Plaza. As I recall it, the limo was supposed to pull over and dump JFK in the ambulance so they could alter his wounds in the ambulance before he got to Parkland. 

When he told me about this I voiced some objections, but he kept saying he had the proof or some such thing. He could tell I was not impressed and threatened to kill my family if I blew the whistle on his theory before he was able to publish. As stated, I later found out he'd called up others as well. 

In retrospect, I think he was hoping some would embrace his theory, and was disappointed when they did not. Perhaps that's why the book never came out.

Now that I think about it, I remember asking about his book on Oswald, and his telling me that was only half the story, and that he didn't want to release his book on Oswald--which he indicated was finished--without the second half of the story on the medical evidence.

I strongly urged him to release the Oswald book, and even told him I for one would be more likely to buy it if it wasn't tangled up with a lot of Best Evidence rehash. I think that was what led him to tell me some of his new theories about what was supposed to happen..if Connally wasn't wounded as well and the decision had not been made to race to Parkland and bypass the ambulance in which the alteration was supposed to take place. 

I remember that one of my objections was that Jackie Kennedy would not have let them take her husband's wounded body off in an ambulance without her. To which, Lifton said Roy Kellerman? and Clint Hill? were assigned to hold her back, or some such thing. I don't remember. But he kept adding more people into the plot.

Now, as to your initial question, I don't think anyone is currently pushing that some of the Parkland doctors were part of the plot, but I was assuming some would should Lifton's book claiming as much have actually surfaced. Once a theory surfaces, now matter how bizarre, someone will embrace it. I mean, there are still plenty of Greer did it and Hickey did it people out there, and I think you and I can agree there's not much substance to that.

 

 It's ironic, moreover, in light of some of the recent threads in which I was made out as the anti-Parkland guy, that some years ago a certain person using a fake name and secretly pushing a bizarre agenda joined the forum, and wrote long detailed posts claiming the tracheotomy performed by Perry was really the cause of death and that Malcolm Perry had killed Kennedy. He was a talented writer and some members of the forum bought into it. In reading though his posts, however, I realized this guy was here to push his agenda and re-write the history of the Kennedy assassination and Watergate and present them both as battles in the war between the U.S. Govt. and the Church of ( I can't even say it, it's so silly). So I tried to get this guy to publicly admit what he was up to. I was then attacked for attacking someone's religious beliefs. I then became suspicious he was just a Hollywood sci-fi writer trying out new ideas on the forum, and that he probably wasn't the person in his avatar. So I asked if we could meet in a public place. Oh my God! Several people complained that they no longer felt safe because, God forbid, someone on the forum might want to actually meet them some day. So I was once again painted as the bad guy. I continued searching, however, and found a website for a series of books pushing this fringe religion and featuring some action stories in which the avatar of my new "friend" was the romantic lead. So I was correct. The new hero of the forum was a writer pretending to be someone else who'd come here to re-write history for the benefit of a cult and perhaps entice a few people into joining his cult. 

Long story short. I knew from this experience that a lot of people were likely to switch over from Parkland "defenders" to Parkland "accusers" should Lifton's Final Charade come out. 

[Jonathan Cohen]

3 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Can you give me names of some who believe that, and what the role of the Parkland witnesses supposedly was?

Yes. David Lifton.

[Sandy Larsen]

1 hour ago, Pat Speer said:

This is what Lifton was working on over his last few years. It was discussed on some threads that came out after he died.

 

Thanks Pat. Somehow I missed those threads. Could have been when I was in the hospital.

The theory is highly unlikely of course, but I wouldn't mind seeing Lifton's evidence.

 

1 hour ago, Pat Speer said:

...some years ago a certain person using a fake name and secretly pushing a bizarre agenda joined the forum, and wrote long detailed posts claiming the tracheotomy performed by Perry was really the cause of death and that Malcolm Perry had killed Kennedy.

 

I can't believe that I remember this particular forum member's name after all these years, but Ashton Gray had an idea where a Parkland doctor could have killed Kennedy with a special kind of needle, and nobody there would noticed that he wasn't just performing a tracheotomy. I recall he was a temperamental guy. I once referred to this idea as "Ashton's theory" and he responded with a post saying "Kerplunk!" or something like that. I later learned that, though he liked to talk about the theory and show a photo of the special needle, he hated people calling the idea his theory. And that his "Kerplunk!" meant that he was putting me on ignore.

 

 

[James DiEugenio]

It always puzzled me that Lifton would say things like its all in the Warren Commission. He did that to me once.

Oh really?  None of the things that Jim Garrison discovered about New Orleans are in the Warren Report.  You will not see one bit about the Clinton/Jackson witnesses in the 26 volumes.  

You will not see one iota about the FBI and CIA crusades against the FPCC.

You will not see anything about Oswald's relationship with Ferrie, which goes back to his CAP days.

The T. F. Bowley testimony is not in the Warren Report.

Just like Acquilla Clemmons is not.  Or the mystery of officer Mentzel. Or Vaganov.

So I never understood what Lifton was talking about when he said that.  I mean all you had to do was figure how many pages of the FBI inquiry did not make it into the volumes.

 

[James DiEugenio]

Question to Steven;

 

Did you say earlier that the estate of Lifton was going to bring out a revised version of Best Evidence and also Final Charade?

If so, will it have a publisher, or will it be self published?

[Cliff Varnell]

Ashton Gray claimed Nurse Diana Bowron stabbed JFK in the throat with a poison needle while JFK was wheeled from the limo to the ER.

When I argued against that scenario he accused me of being a government disinformation agent.

His real name is Randall MacDonald (iirc), a hardcore Scientologist.

David Lifton shared with me his later theories in a phone call in 2019.  He assumed he spoke in confidence, which I won't breach even though he's passed.

To get the definitive word on David's theories we'll have to wait until Final Charade gets published.

[David Von Pein]

David Lifton's 14-part video series (recorded in November 2013 and put on YouTube in October 2022)....

 

Edited June 18 by David Von Pein

[Larry Hancock]

I can say that the personal version I heard from David....no request for confidence.....was that there was a special room prepared within the hospital and a set of Doctors who were in place to somehow murder JFK at Parkland if he was not DOA.  He did not specify what Doctors but mentioned several.  I had the impression that he felt they were also going to alter whatever wounds there were to support a lone shooter - but while he talked of altering them at Parkland he was not explicit on any specifics. He also  stated that Oswald was supposed to be shot dead inside the TSBD by Baker, he had interviewed Baker who denied it - but David felt sure he could judge that he had Baker lied.

I don't recall further details as he offered no evidence and it just didn't stick with me, but at that point he was adamant that people at Parkland were committed to killing JFK whatever state he was in after being attacked.

[Vince Palamara]

6 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Question to Steven;

 

Did you say earlier that the estate of Lifton was going to bring out a revised version of Best Evidence and also Final Charade?

If so, will it have a publisher, or will it be self published?

I am trying to find the darn e-mail someone sent me a couple years ago, but someone who claims to have been privy to Lifton's wild theories claimed:

1) The Parkland doctors used a pneumatic drill to make false back wound(s)--!

2) Greer had the door partially opened on Main Street because there was an eventual driver switch

 

[Nick Bartetzko]

This Parkland doctors were in on it theory originated, I believe, from a Texas doctor who was 90ish living in Texas and that Lifton somehow found and interviewed. Apparently that doctor knew some of those doctors. I am trying to remember if Lifton actually said it could have been doctors from the Methodist hospital that was also nearby and that JFK could have been taken to as well. 

Then we have Lifton's claim that Oswald would have survived, but air was intentionally injected into his vein which actually caused his death. 
 

I was looking forward to Final Charade. 

[Jamey Flanagan]

I could very well see there being a backup plan in place at Parkland just in case his wounds weren't fatal. It makes sense in theory. You don't want to go through all of that trouble just to have him survive.

But........even if such a plan were in place, Kennedy was dead the moment that bullet ripped half his head off. So, I didn't think he was injected with anything.

However, I could get on board with some chicanery going on at Parkland with Oswald. One doctor actually said his vitals had stabilized and it looked like he was gonna pull through and then they turned him over and all his vitals just started dropping. I don't advocate that anything was done to ensure his death, but I can't ignore the possibility.

With Oswald, I think it is highly suspicious too that the first EMT or whatever to attend him started doing CPR or chest compressions or something along that line that apparently is a big no-no for patients with gunshot wounds. Correct me if I'm stating this wrong. I'm just paraphrasing it from memory.

[Jean Ceulemans]

44 minutes ago, Jamey Flanagan said:

I could very well see there being a backup plan in place at Parkland just in case his wounds weren't fatal. It makes sense in theory. You don't want to go through all of that trouble just to have him survive.

But........even if such a plan were in place, Kennedy was dead the moment that bullet ripped half his head off. So, I didn't think he was injected with anything.

However, I could get on board with some chicanery going on at Parkland with Oswald. One doctor actually said his vitals had stabilized and it looked like he was gonna pull through and then they turned him over and all his vitals just started dropping. I don't advocate that anything was done to ensure his death, but I can't ignore the possibility.

With Oswald, I think it is highly suspicious too that the first EMT or whatever to attend him started doing CPR or chest compressions or something along that line that apparently is a big no-no for patients with gunshot wounds. Correct me if I'm stating this wrong. I'm just paraphrasing it from memory.

Never heard of CPR/chest compressions being a no-no for a patient with gunshot wounds?  When no hartbeat/breathing, better start CPR no matter what! Perpaps in the 1960´s it was different, don´t know.

[Ron Bulman]

13 hours ago, Jamey Flanagan said:

With Oswald, I think it is highly suspicious too that the first EMT or whatever to attend him started doing CPR or chest compressions or something along that line that apparently is a big no-no for patients with gunshot wounds. Correct me if I'm stating this wrong. I'm just paraphrasing it from memory.

There were no EMT's in the basement of the Dallas jail.  From, memory, not sure where I read it.  

Oswald was carried to the DPD basement office by the elevator from which he had just came out.  He was laid out on a desk there or maybe in the floor again.  He was given chest compressions, not CPR.  This increased his blood flow.  He was bleeding internally from his wounds.  This exacerbated the problem.  

[Steven Kossor]

David Lifton's estate has just been settled.  I believe that his estate has been compiling his writing and other material to release it in the most complete format possible, including his work on Oswald's recruitment, training and manipulation for the role he would play in JFK's life that started many years before 1963. His ideas about "what was supposed to have happened in Dallas, but didn't" evolved over a long period of time. David shared his understanding of things relatively frequently and widely, but he was always sharing fragments of "a work in progress" rather than a finished product.  He had a lifelong history of "disguise and deception" activities and didn't trust anyone enough to talk in depth and detail about the JFKA, which led many people to malign him. I suggested to him that he had been operating "like a colloquium of one" since 1966 and that by not engaging in more open dialogue with other researchers, he was at-risk of succumbing to "confirmation bias." He recognized this and helped me fill in the gaps in my own understanding of Oswald's background the JFKA by suggesting a wide range of reading matter, and I believe he took me more into his confidence than he might have otherwise as a result, but he still kept his secrets. The estate has full access to the records we made of our conversations about the JFKA over 10 years. The discoveries David made in the WC records from 11/21/63 (and especially the events documented between 12:00 noon and 12:30 pm on 11/22/63) that appear to reveal plans (not just "precautions in case something bad happens") to provide ambulance transportation for JFK's body to Parkland hospital will make very interesting reading when his work is finally released. I won't comment further on David's work in deference to David's memory and his estate and look forward to reading Final Charade as much as anyone in the Forum.