Then went outside to watch the P. parade

[Jim Hargrove]

It has always been my opinion that the image on the TSBD stairs is not clear enough to positively identify it as Oswald.

But the discovery of Hosty’s note saying that Oswald said he went outside to watch the parade is significant no matter what excuses the usual naysayers offer us.

WC apologists here tell us Oswald was lying to hide his guilt in the assassination.   Really?  He was so stupid that he shot the President from his own workplace and hoped to get away with it?

Not likely.  Researchers who want to destroy the position of the WC apologists should post, again and again, proof of how much of the so-called “evidence” against LHO in the National Archives is clearly phony.  This was an elaborate set-up, an enormous cover-up, and Oswald was, just as he said he was, a patsy.

Megathanks to Bart Kamp for promoting this important discovery.

[Denny Zartman]

1 hour ago, Jim Hargrove said:

WC apologists here tell us Oswald was lying to hide his guilt in the assassination.   Really?  He was so stupid that he shot the President from his own workplace and hoped to get away with it?

It never fails to amaze me how the LN's can whiplash back and forth between claiming LHO wasn't telling the truth in order to hide his guilt and claiming LHO wanted to earn his place in history.

• Why did LHO claim to be on the lower floors? He was lying to hide his guilt.
• Why did LHO not have a getaway plan? He wanted to be caught.
• Why did LHO deny both murders? He was lying to hide his guilt until he could go to trial and announce his guilt. 🙄
• Why did LHO order a rifle and a revolver using an alias? He didn't want to be connected to the rifle.
• Why did LHO order a rifle and a revolver using an alias, (when he could have gone into any gun store in Texas, paid cash, and left no paper trail if he REALLY didn't want to be connected to the rifle) and then carry an ID with that alias with him when committing his crimes? He wanted to be connected to the rifle.
• Why did LHO have his picture taken with his weapons and with Russian newspapers? He wanted to be connected to the rifle and explain his political motive.
• Why did LHO deny owning a rifle at all? He was lying to hide his guilt.
• Why did LHO kill JFK? He desperately wanted to be "somebody" and earn his place in history.
• Why did LHO say he didn't kill anyone and had nothing against JFK? He was lying to hide his guilt.

[Denny Zartman]

If Oswald wanted to be connected to that rifle (as the backyard photos would seem to indicate), he could have ordered it under his own name. He could have carved his initials into the wood. Instead, he didn't even bother to leave prints on it until after he was dead.

If Oswald didn't want to be connected to that rifle, he could have purchased in person with cash and left no paper trail whatsoever. He also could have, y' know, avoided posing for photos with it, too. That might have helped a little bit.

We're talking about an assassin that had it so together he was able to dash upstairs, use his misaligned rifle to fire two accurate shots (and one shot that missed both the limo and the street surrounding it) at a moving target, wipe the rifle of prints, run a maze of boxes to hide the rifle, dash downstairs past at least one law officer, get outside, board at least two vehicles, and make a clean getaway... but who was so disorganized he drops one of his three wallets at the scene of the Tippit murder, carries around an ID with the alias he used to order a rifle that he plans on denying he owns, and can't think of anywhere better to escape to than a movie theater.

[Michael Cross]

3 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

That's not being humble Francois, that's being gullible.

By your standards, you would not have believed that the U.S. government was involved in any of the following activities, had they not been exposed by critics like us:

• The assassination of foreign leaders.
• Coups carried out in foreign countries.
• Experimentation of LSD on U.S. citizens without their knowledge or consent.
• Experimentation of nuclear radiation on U.S. citizens without their knowledge or consent .
• Plans for false-flag operations where innocent people, including U.S. citizens, would have been injured or killed.
• The sale of hard drugs to children in order to support activities like those listed above.

 

Nice job Sandy.  

[James DiEugenio]

The “Prayer Man” nonsense is being promoted by yet another snake oil salesman, Bart Kamp. He and Ralph “the fraud” Cinque should get a hotel room. I am so disgusted with these intellectually dishonest charlatans that I vigilantly avoid anything and everything with which they are involved.
[Greg Burnham Feb. 11 2018.]

If Greg B really said this then he is conceptually wrong. No one who knows the issue could conflate what Bart is doing with what Cinque is doing.  What Cinque is doing was originally backed by Fetzer and was called Doorway Man.  Its an entirely different concept than what Bart is doing.  

For FC to bring that confusion over here shows just how bereft his knowledge of this case is.

[Joe Bauer]

20 hours ago, Denny Zartman said:

If Oswald wanted to be connected to that rifle (as the backyard photos would seem to indicate), he could have ordered it under his own name. He could have carved his initials into the wood. Instead, he didn't even bother to leave prints on it until after he was dead.

If Oswald didn't want to be connected to that rifle, he could have purchased in person with cash and left no paper trail whatsoever. He also could have, y' know, avoided posing for photos with it, too. That might have helped a little bit.

We're talking about an assassin that had it so together he was able to dash upstairs, use his misaligned rifle to fire two accurate shots (and one shot that missed both the limo and the street surrounding it) at a moving target, wipe the rifle of prints, run a maze of boxes to hide the rifle, dash downstairs past at least one law officer, get outside, board at least two vehicles, and make a clean getaway... but who was so disorganized he drops one of his three wallets at the scene of the Tippit murder, carries around an ID with the alias he used to order a rifle that he plans on denying he owns, and can't think of anywhere better to escape to than a movie theater.

Denny, exactly.

There are so many incongruous and illogical actions, words, findings, time lines and other facts and testimonies ( usually involving Oswald more so than Marina, Ruby and others ) that contradict or make no sense that the whole thing together often becomes a murky mind twisting mess.

If this state of illogical and confusing contradictions is the result of a planned truth obfuscating format, I'd say the planners were incredibly successful, almost genius.

Sometimes I am stopped just by pondering the scenario which says Oswald did the shooting of JFK and then Tippit and then tried to shoot and kill DPD officer Nick McDonald in the Texas Theater...knowing that if he was successful in killing McDonald it would have been a last gasp suicide mission initiating a full bore fusilage firing toward him by the other officers present.

What a desperate murder/suicide mad run!

If Oswald really blew JFK's head apart inches from his young wife's face, then just 45 minutes later pumped more bullets up close into Tippit than necessary to kill him and then aggressively tried to blow a hole into officer McDonald in the Texas Theater just one half hour after over-wasting Tippit ... what does one make of Oswald's brutal murder spree and mental state?

The morning of 11,22,1963 Oswald seems calm with Buell Wesley Frazier on his way to work. He doesn't show any anxious behavior during his morning work hours according to those co-workers who say they saw him that morning, and he casually walks ( no mention of his running ) away from the TXSBD and catches a bus and then departs the bus and hails a cab to his apartment after the motorcade shooting chaos.

He changes clothes there and apparently picked up his pistol.

Within minutes of walking away from his rooming house, Oswald is blasting 4 bullets into Tippit and minutes later life and death battling with DPD officers in the Texas Theater.

I am always wondering ( again if this scenario as described by the WC is true ) about the sheer brutality of Oswald's wildly desperate actions that day.

It would take someone seriously pathologically violent and murderous to perform the deeds assigned to Oswald that day.

Was Oswald this cold blooded and violent? Did his personal history reflect this?

Oswald was the husband of a young bride. He was the father of two babies. He loved his children.

He didn't lose his cool after being physically assaulted by Carlos Bringuier in New Orleans just months before 11,22,1963.

Whoever lined up a rifle shot and was willing to blast JFK's head and brains to bloody bits just inches from his wife's face...had to have a true murderer mentality, if not a professional hit man one.

To be able to cut off the normal empathetic feelings of common bond humanity by brutally murdering someone who is not immediately threatening you takes the mind of a cold blooded killer.

Was Oswald this stone cold killer? Had he ever killed anyone before JFK? Blew a hole in their head when they were not an immediate threat to him personally? 

I know, the Walker attempt will be used to paint Oswald this way.

Could Oswald have been programmed to be this brutally violent after a lifetime of not being this way?

Hard to believe Oswald was willing to ruin his children's lives with the actions he took that day. He knew that they might have to grow up and live with the taunting of their being the children of a beloved world leader murderer.  He was willing to have them suffer like this?

Roscoe White allegedly confessed in private to his church pastor that he had killed men in his life. Both on foreign soil and here in the states. White "was" a trained assassin if this confessional story was true.

But was Oswald one as well?

If Oswald killed Tippit, he must have decided that he was going to be killed himself at any minute imo.

Same with DPD officer Nick McDonald.

If Oswald hadn't been shot/lynched in the DPD basement less than two days later, maybe some expert interrogators could have eventually learned the truth about his murder spree and why he was so motivated to kill that afternoon.

But, it's the brutality of Oswald in this killing spree scenario on 11,22,1963 that throws me.  It was so extreme.

Like he had completely snapped!

BLIND RAGE type stuff.  

Yet, Oswald's demeanor once under arrest and under questioning was always described as noticeably calm. He did get angry, defiant and offended in tone at times, but nothing like someone who was out of their mind with killing rage.

Just more conflicting things to ponder regards Oswald and others in this at times surreal story.

 

Edited February 13, 2019 by Joe Bauer

[James DiEugenio]

BTW, that incredibly scrupulous historian DVP claimed above that assassins don't identify themselves as an excuse for why Oswald did not admit to the crime.

Uh, what did John Wilkes Booth, a famous actor, do after shooting Lincoln?

Now click through here to see what happened to McKinley

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_William_McKinley

Question:  Did Von Pein graduate from  high school?  Maybe that explains it.

Edited February 12, 2019 by James DiEugenio

[Guest]

2 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

The “Prayer Man” nonsense is being promoted by yet another snake oil salesman, Bart Kamp. He and Ralph “the fraud” Cinque should get a hotel room. I am so disgusted with these intellectually dishonest charlatans that I vigilantly avoid anything and everything with which they are involved.
[Greg Burnham Feb. 11 2018.]

If Greg B really said this then he is conceptually wrong. No one who knows the issue could conflate what Bart is doing with what Cinque is doing.  What Cinque is doing was originally backed by Fetzer and was called Doorway Man.  Its an entirely different concept than what Bart is doing.  

For FC to bring that confusion over here shows just how bereft his knowledge of this case is.

Burnham did say that.

Prayer Man is verboten at his forum., yet I caught him a few years back on buying the google adwords for it 😂

[François Carlier]

2 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

The “Prayer Man” nonsense is being promoted by yet another snake oil salesman, Bart Kamp. He and Ralph “the fraud” Cinque should get a hotel room. I am so disgusted with these intellectually dishonest charlatans that I vigilantly avoid anything and everything with which they are involved.
[Greg Burnham Feb. 11 2018.]

If Greg B really said this then he is conceptually wrong. No one who knows the issue could conflate what Bart is doing with what Cinque is doing.  What Cinque is doing was originally backed by Fetzer and was called Doorway Man.  Its an entirely different concept than what Bart is doing.  

For FC to bring that confusion over here shows just how bereft his knowledge of this case is.

Why are you saying that ?
Of course I know the difference between "prayer man" and Billy Lovelady.
I quoted Burnham to show that not all conspiracy advocates agree with Kamp. I said that Groden likewise denied any validity in the belief of "prayer man".
I know my stuff.
Please don't try to pretend that I don't.

[Jeffrey Reilley]

4 hours ago, Denny Zartman said:

If Oswald wanted to be connected to that rifle (as the backyard photos would seem to indicate), he could have ordered it under his own name. He could have carved his initials into the wood. Instead, he didn't even bother to leave prints on it until after he was dead.

If Oswald didn't want to be connected to that rifle, he could have purchased in person with cash and left no paper trail whatsoever. He also could have, y' know, avoided posing for photos with it, too. That might have helped a little bit.

We're talking about an assassin that had it so together he was able to dash upstairs, use his misaligned rifle to fire two accurate shots (and one shot that missed both the limo and the street surrounding it) at a moving target, wipe the rifle of prints, run a maze of boxes to hide the rifle, dash downstairs past at least one law officer, get outside, board at least two vehicles, and make a clean getaway... but who was so disorganized he drops one of his three wallets at the scene of the Tippit murder, carries around an ID with the alias he used to order a rifle that he plans on denying he owns, and can't think of anywhere better to escape to than a movie theater.

The most fun I’ve had reading anything in a while. Thank you.

[François Carlier]

4 hours ago, Denny Zartman said:

If Oswald wanted to be connected to that rifle (as the backyard photos would seem to indicate), he could have ordered it under his own name. He could have carved his initials into the wood. Instead, he didn't even bother to leave prints on it until after he was dead.

If Oswald didn't want to be connected to that rifle, he could have purchased in person with cash and left no paper trail whatsoever. He also could have, y' know, avoided posing for photos with it, too. That might have helped a little bit.

We're talking about an assassin that had it so together he was able to dash upstairs, use his misaligned rifle to fire two accurate shots (and one shot that missed both the limo and the street surrounding it) at a moving target, wipe the rifle of prints, run a maze of boxes to hide the rifle, dash downstairs past at least one law officer, get outside, board at least two vehicles, and make a clean getaway... but who was so disorganized he drops one of his three wallets at the scene of the Tippit murder, carries around an ID with the alias he used to order a rifle that he plans on denying he owns, and can't think of anywhere better to escape to than a movie theater.

You seem to have very little knowledge of real life. Where do you live ? What's your job ?
You should study true crime stories, real-life crime stories. Study the behavior of the guilty party, the murderer. Study carefully. They always do things that are not coherent, nor intelligent.
That's precisely why they end up being caught.
You seem to live in a dream world. Do you reach your conclusions on the Kennedy assassination based on the Hollywood movies you watch ? I suggest you think again !
Real-life assassins make mistakes. Real-life assassins change their stories. Real-life assassins do things that are not coherent, nor consistent. Most of the time it does not make sense.
Reasonable people who have knowledge will be able to sort things out. But people like you will be flabbergasted, they won't uderstand, and they'll end up calling the assassin an innocent man.

Edited February 12, 2019 by François Carlier

[James DiEugenio]

FC, first of all you seem not to know the difference between what Cinque was about and what Bart is about.  They are two different concepts.

Secondly, you did admit that a better image would provide better evidence.

That would apply only to the PM issue not Doorway man.

Therefore, it is possible to prove PM is Oswald is ever there was discovered a first generation print.

So one cannot exclude the alternative that PM is Oswald. And we now have 2-3 sources that indicate Oswald said he was outside.

Edited February 12, 2019 by James DiEugenio

[Micah Mileto]

2 hours ago, François Carlier said:

You seem to have very little knowledge of real life. Where do you live ? What's your job ?
You should study true crime stories, real-life crime stories. Study the behavior of the guilty party, the murderer. Study carefully. They always do things that are not coherent, nor intelligent.
That's precisely why they end up being caught.
You seem to live in a dream world. Do you reach your conclusions on the Kennedy assassination based on the Hollywood movies you watch ? I suggest you think again !
Real-life assassins make mistakes. Real-life assassins change their stories. Real-life assassins do things that are not coherent, nor consistent. Most of the time it does not make sense.
Reasonable people who have knowledge will be able to sort things out. But people like you will be flabbergasted, they won't uderstand, and they'll end up calling the assassin an innocent man.

Are you aware of the dollar bill problem?

[Jeffrey Reilley]

2 hours ago, François Carlier said:

You seem to have very little knowledge of real life. 

Who in the world are you to ever say that sort of thing about someone you don’t know? 

As well, quit saying things like “everybody” and “always”, it makes your point lose its pointiness. 

[Jeffrey Reilley]

...not that I think your point is accurate at all. It just comes off as someone trying to force their point of view upon everyone else. 

I mean, if I didn’t know any better, I’d say you’re not very knowledgeable about real life. What do you do for a living? Are you a bit of a control freak? Maybe you should try yoga, or visit Colorado and eat a gummy bear