Richard Price Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 38 minutes ago, Steve Thomas said: I just want to find 11,780 votes’: In extraordinary hour-long call, Trump pressures Georgia secretary of state to recalculate the vote in his favor I hope this gets out over the airwaves for everyone to hear. The only comment I would make is, if Brad Raffensperger were in an election, I would consider voting for him even though I am technically a Democrat. He has shown class, ethics and a sense of duty that one would hope all our civil servants and elected officials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Gallaway Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 Right Steve. How's that for election fraud? The Georgia Secretary of State Raffensperger records a call from the President telling him to find 11, 780 votes! You're right we definitely need that kind of courage from the Republicans Richard! The thing that concerns me is what will stop the Republican bogus election fraud allegation from gaining even more momentum on Wednesday if the Democrats should decisively sweep the Georgia election on Tuesday and effectively take the Senate? They would then have absolutely nothing to lose! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 - George Conway - Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Andrews Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Douglas Caddy said: Their plan is for Pence to disqualify a sufficient number of individual Biden electors so as to raise Trump to victory. Because he knows he'll never get the GOP nomination in 2024, or ever. Edited January 3, 2021 by David Andrews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglas Caddy Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 Republicans ought to be calling for Trump's resignation or end the GOP: Veteran reporter Carl Bernstein By Sarah K. Burris January 03, 2021 https://www.rawstory.com/republians-demand-trump-resign/ “Veteran Watergate reporter Carl Bernstein responded to the shocking tapes of President Donald Trump attempting to extort the Georgia Secretary of State, saying that it is "far worse than what occurred in Watergate." Speaking to CNN's Fredricka Whitfield on Sunday afternoon, Bernstein said that these tapes prove that Trump isn't merely a criminal, he's also subversive. "At the same time this one person subverting the very basis of our democracy, and willing to act criminally in that subversion," said Bernstein. "But more importantly, what we hear on this tape -- this is the ultimate smoking gun tape. It is the tape with the evidence of what this president is willing to do toll undermine the electoral system and illegally, improperly, and immorally try to instigate a coup in which he remains the president of the United States." He explained that in a normal White House the new Trump tape would be enough to impeach and remove the president and draw a serious investigation from the Justice Department. "In any other presidency, this tape would be evidence enough to result in the impeachment of the president of the United States, his conviction in the Senate of the United States, and really an immediate call by the members of Congress, including of his own party, that he resign immediately," said Bernstein. "That's really what we ought to be hearing. 'Mr. President, resign, leave the White House, this is unconscionable, it is wrong, and we of your party will not permit it.' We won't hear it. We might form a few Republicans, but that's what's areally called from here. The heroes of the Watergate were Republicans who would not tolerate Richard Nixon's conduct." He went on to call the demand by Trump for Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger to come up with the votes for him "plus one" and illegally deliver the election "criminal." "We've never had a tape like this before, including the Nixon tapes," he continued. "As for heroes yes, the secretary of state of Georgia is a hero, but so are hundreds of election officials and state officials who have done their job, stuck with it, despite threats, including to their safety and health. We have a number of heroes here. Where we have not had heroes is the Senate of the United States, particularly Republican members, except for a few who have been craven, refusing to condemn this kind of out of control conduct, and the real disgrace in the House of Representatives, more than 140 probably a majority in the Republicans in the House, willing to promulgate and continue this idea, despite the evidence of upending a legal, proper election in which the evidence is clear, the results are clear? This is fantasy. It's not delusion, because they know what they're doing is is fantasy. It's not delusion, because they know what they're doing. And the question is: is some real leader of the Republican Party" going to stand up?” Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Andrews Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 (edited) 11 hours ago, Steve Thomas said: ‘I just want to find 11,780 votes’: In extraordinary hour-long call, Trump pressures Georgia secretary of state to recalculate the vote in his favor Acting like the kind of sleazy electoral grafter that the late actor Charles Durning used to play so well in the movies: "Aw, c'mon! The whole cotton-pickin' state of Georgia can't rustle me up 11,780 votes?" Edited January 4, 2021 by David Andrews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 In his sleep Mitch McConnell hears the strains of Georgia banjo... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Price Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 After Trumps latest NOT SO "perfect call", Michael Bromwich, former Department of Justice inspector general and former assistant U.S. attorney suggested one possible defense. Unless there are portions of the tape that somehow negate criminal intent, "I just want to find 11,780 votes" and his threats against Raffensperger and his counsel violate 52 U.S. Code § 20511. His best defense would be insanity. NYU law professor and former DOJ lawyer Andrew Weissmann also noted the similarity with Trump’s attempts to pressure Ukraine’s government to investigate Joe and Hunter Biden. Trump's threats to Georgia Sec of State; Trump, to Ukraine President; Trump to US Senators who won't violate the Constitution for him - and on and on - are all examples of POTUS criminal extortion and election tampering. And those who knowingly assist him violate 18 USC 2 & 371. It was also noted by these and others that what was on the recording could represent Election Fraud, Extortion and Sedition. Now someone or some group need to prepare those charges for the moment he steps out of the White House and he needs to be immediately removed from office as "unfit & incapable of fulfilling his duty". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Bulman Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 Imploding? More like 70 years plus to get to this. Republicans Begin New Congress Feuding Over Bid to Overturn Election (msn.com) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Gallaway Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 (edited) On 1/2/2021 at 3:14 PM, Jeff Carter said: The primary sources investigating this presumed “attack” have not as yet identified a responsible entity beyond a “nation-state” actor, presumed as such due to the stated “sophistication’ of the activity. See: https://msrc-blog.microsoft.com/2020/12/21/december-21st-2020-solorigate-resource-center/. (Last updated Dec 31) Nation-states believed to possess the stated capabiities include the US, China, Russia, Israel, and the UK. Whether this was a state-directed operation or a “rogue” event directed by a factional interest, is simply, at the moment, unknown. Therefore, the New York Times, yet again, is irresponsibly misinforming its readership by publishing claims of Russian responsibility which have no corresponding evidence and are contradicted by the published primary record. Why the NYTimes insists on doing this is unknown, but the more interesting question is why the Times is allowed any credibility on this or any issue related to attribution of Russian culpability when most of its publishing on the topic has been utterly wrong again and again for at least the past four years. Wednesday marks the fourth anniversary of the infamous Intelligence Community Assessment which, it is now known, used the thoroughly discredited “Steele Dossier” to publicly accuse an incoming US administration of treasonous links to an official adversary. I would say much of the rancour and partisan division currently enveloping the USA can be tracked back to the publication and broad endorsement of that highly dubious document. As the article shared by Kirk above clearly shows, Trump’s basic incompetence and lack of qualification could have and should have been dealt with by the simple application of politics, instead of a ridiculous evidence-free conspiracy theory amplified with hysterical coverage by the legacy media. America’s current troubles are in actuality an “own-goal”. It’s interesting that the continuing attempts to reverse the election result base themselves on procedural regulations. It is one of the dark secrets of constitutional democracies that there is always a legal fail-safe to disavow the “will of the people”, although meant only to be deployed as a “nuclear option” in response to highly unlikely events such as a Black Panther Party candidate winning the presidency. Such a nuclear option was in fact deployed in Australia in 1975 with the removal of the Whitlam government by a form of royal consent. The full extent of this act, formally denied by the Australian government and media for decades, was only revealed this past summer by a very stubborn determined effort using Australia’s Freedom of Information laws. Regardless, there is almost no chance for success in overturning Biden’s inauguration later this month, so the congressional support for such can be read as really about posturing for future position. The sound argument against the damaging effect of these legal manoeuvres to the nation’s polity, would find consistency with criticizing the likewise rash publication of the ICA four years ago. If we haven't gone through this ad nauseum. Every 2 months you bring this up again, Jeff. So it's still in your craw. But to me, It's a complete lack of thoroughness and lack of reticence in your thinking that makes you unable to see how each of these subsequent events like yesterday's event of Trump trying to pressure the Georgia Lt.Governor to illegally commit election fraud, that diminishes your argument. But it's not just this, it's been a series of incidents how the President used the power of his presidency to withhold arms to the Ukraine in exchange for uncovering dirt on his political opponent and how according to Josh Bolton in his book, he did the very same thing offering President Xi special favors to uncover some dirt on Biden, Even though Trump has been at the forefront of depicting the Chinese as an economic threat. Every one of these subsequent events diminishes your argument about Trump's innocence with Russia, and you can't even see it. I'm not even mentioning this massive computer hack, because they don't seem 100% per cent sure but I'm sure you think it's another Russian hoax. It's obvious there's nothing he won't stoop to to pursue his own interest. What would be any different about Russia than in the case of Zelensky, ? Or of Xi? What would be any different than in yesterday's case of Raffensperger? Solely because he's dealing with Vladimir Putin who is so upstanding to be party to such corruption? You'll have a hard time convincing any of us of that. Donald Trump Jr. said, “Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets.” “We see a lot of money pouring in from Russia,” he added. It would seem only the most financially illiterate people would actually scoff at a narrative that after continually plunging himself further in debt, Trump would either 1) use his Presidency as money grubbing whore to pay off his debts, which he has or 2) seek loans in nefarious places with nefarious people such as Russian oligarchs. Yet somehow that scenario is not the least plausible to you! And the fact that you could feel so much vindication at an investigation that refused to go into Trumps finances at all show you must not be that vigorous in your thinking,or you're just trying to fool yourself. Jeff said: ,I would say much of the rancour and partisan division currently enveloping the USA can be tracked back to the publication and broad endorsement of that highly dubious document. Certainly your rancor Jeff, I don't know what qualifies you to speculate at all about that. Of course first off, you're not an American but even so, that's sort of an argument is among those people who read. Which most people don't. If the people who disparage "Russiagate" like yourself have lost their objectivity, and are stubborn and unable to be convinced by the subsequent Trump actions, I have no patience or sympathy for them. And if they take action or are politicians who are party to subvert our Democracy, however much you have the luxury of seeing it as a merely political positioning ploy,they should accept the consequences. It's like you're a lawyer defending a guy from charges of rape whose a 3 time rapist and you decided your best line of defense is to scoff at any inference your client could possibly be a rapist. Edited January 4, 2021 by Kirk Gallaway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Carter Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 11 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said: If we haven't gone through this ad nauseum. Every 2 months you bring this up again, Jeff. So it's still in your craw. But to me, It's a complete lack of thoroughness and lack of reticence in your thinking that makes you unable to see how each of these subsequent events like yesterday's event of Trump trying to pressure the Georgia Lt.Governor to illegally commit election fraud, that diminishes your argument. Kirk - nothing in your loose and unfocussed reply contradicts the simple observation that the “Newspaper of Record” has been serially misinforming the public on matters of serious geopolitical consequence. The constant repetition of materially false (i.e. the ICA) or evidence-free allegations (Russian hacking) could have grave consequence, particularly as taking the country to war on false flag pretext has a long history in U.S.A. Your apparent advocacy of an “ends justify the means” judicial posture contradicts the spirit of the Law described in your country’s own founding documents. And your dismissal of observation based on material sources - I.e. people who “read” - echoes none other than Allen Dulles, and seems ultimately cynical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Bulman Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 Worse than Watergate? Carl Bernstein Says Those Tapes of Donald Trump Trying To Steal the Election Are “Far Worse” Than Watergate (msn.com) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Gallaway Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 (edited) Jeff, I'm sure if FDR was alive,(bless his soul) he would say that the day the NYT released that article was "A day that will live in infamy". heh heh! Since the whole focus on your piece is that this was the 4th anniversary of the dreaded NYT article. We'll keep that date on our 2021 calendars for the end of this year, and expect to hear from you then. After all it will be the 5th anniversary!! I love how you turned Dulles statement around on me. But it's you whose out of touch with the common guy. If you interviewed 100 Americans. Do you think one person could site that that NYT times article was the start of the Trump Russia allegation? The extent that most Trump supporters know about that is just a disparaging comment about "Russiagate" from Fox News, and that's pretty much good enough for them. They could tell you no details about that whatsoever! Besides there's been an impeachment trial and world pandemic since.Why are you so obsessed with this? Sorry you've chosen to ignore that you're really defending a chronic offender, and I assume you assert that somehow the Russia allegation is the one exception. And sorry to upset your narrative. But let me tell you what I think is a much better example of how the country was polarized. It was the massive demonstrations around the country against Trump in the first days after the election. A lot of people who voted for Trump thought. "Gee these people are just not going to give Trump a chance." And to an extent, given that we didn't know that Trump the President might be different than Trump the campaigner. They had a point. However, I do have sympathy for the ones who demonstrated, because there will always be those sour grapes in a country that has a voting system where the candidate that wins the most votes doesn't win the election, and the Democrats have already been through that recently, and it resulted in the disastrous Bush Presidency. As it turned out they were right and Trump was the same divisive character as a President that he was, as a campaigner. But if he had gone down the middle with both parties. If he had for example worked with the Democrats about strengthening the ACA,he would have been praised as the "outsider who made Washington function again". Instead he opposed it for no other reason than to try to undue everything Obama had accomplished, and pretty much walked in lock step Mitch Mac Connell during his whole term. And now you see the results. Edited January 4, 2021 by Kirk Gallaway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ness Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 1 hour ago, Jeff Carter said: Kirk - nothing in your loose and unfocussed reply contradicts the simple observation that the “Newspaper of Record” has been serially misinforming the public on matters of serious geopolitical consequence. The constant repetition of materially false (i.e. the ICA) or evidence-free allegations (Russian hacking) could have grave consequence, particularly as taking the country to war on false flag pretext has a long history in U.S.A. Your apparent advocacy of an “ends justify the means” judicial posture contradicts the spirit of the Law described in your country’s own founding documents. And your dismissal of observation based on material sources - I.e. people who “read” - echoes none other than Allen Dulles, and seems ultimately cynical. Since you're so interested in the "law" Jeff why don't the Russians under indictment come to prove their innocense? Let me get this straight. You think the IC should provide "proof" of their guilt regardless of the consequences to possible sources or methods but do not have to respond to an indictment or even accusations that have been leveled against them. Is that correct? What you claim to be "evidence free" is ridiculous and I suppose is based on the assertions of a former analyst that hasn't worked in the field since 2001. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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