Pete Mellor

Perhaps Allen Dulles' thinking was not far short of being accurate, when he proposed people would not read the W.R. Certainly the 26 volumes. Yet, in those volumes are testimonies, printed in black and white, that should ring alarm bells inside the heads of all readers! Vol. VII contains the testimony of DPD's Capt. Lawrence (pgs.577-589). Where Lawrence states quite plainly how the Secret Service stripped back JFK's limousine motorcycle protection with a blatant untruth. Telling DPD officers on Thursday 21st that JFK did not want motorcycles alongside. The next morning in Fort Worth there were four cycles on each side of JFK's car. Capt Lawrence had this set up (8 motorcycles) escorting the limo, (see Vol XX p.482) in his original plan. Not only was the protection stripped by 50%, the instruction was emphasized at Love Field on the morning of the 22nd., for the four jockeys to ride behind the car. How does the lone nut disgruntled Marxist assassin fit with these nefarious S.S. instructions?

Don't tell me 'VB' stands for Vary Baker.

Bowen died in '62.

So, there's the big porky! Cheers David.

Many thanks for all the contributors to this very interesting thread, which I have been using for my work on the Dallas Police. David, as others have posted, thanks for your work on Sgt. Dean. My query is regarding Agent Sorrels, 'reported that Ruby said "no such thing". Where, when & to whom did Sorrels say this? In his Warren testimony Sorrels states that after his short interview with Ruby, he left the 5th floor jail, leaving the detectives (and Sgt. Dean), with Ruby.

According to the hallowed W.C. volumes:-(Vol. V11 227-232.) And it came to pass Det. Guy Rose reported to City Hall around 14:00. Shortly after, Oswald was brought into the Homicide & Robbery office. Rose with Det. Stovall, who also was off duty that morning, reported in to City Hall at roughly the same time as Rose. When questioned for his name, Oswald wouldn't tell. As the parable of the patsy relates, Rose was handed Lee's wallet with the two i.d. cards with names Oswald & Hidell. When asked which was his, Oswald remarked something like, "You're the cop, you find out." Rose's testimony states that Oswald finally told him his name was Hidell. The short interview was broken off when Cpt., Fritz sent Stovall, Rose & Adamcik to 2515 West Fifth St., in Irving.

However, with Dulles still holding court at his D.C. home, or down on the farm, with the old fraternity of James Angleton and Richard Helms. These puppet masters of people like Harvey and Phillips etc., running their agendas on Cuba, Indonesia and Ben Gurion's Dimona project etc. How do you know McCone was kept in the loop on any of these Dulles/Angleton secret ops?

I have noticed that there were two Deans employed in the ranks of the DPD at the time of the assassination. The other Dean was a William C. Dean, who was a patrol officer in South Dallas. What is interesting about the William C. Dean and Sergeant Patrick Dean is that both were off duty on the 22nd., and both stated they were deer hunting. Does anyone know if these two Deans were related? Any info appreciated.

Jean, the humming noise coming from Arlington is JFK spinning in his grave!

I can hear a humming noise coming from Arlington.

Couldn't agree with you more. But Jean's request didn't specify 'no garbage'.

Jean, My copy is 'Privately Printed Revised Edition of 100 numbered copies by Under Cover Press. Nowhere is the usual copyright date as in standard publications, however my copy is signed by Madeleine Brown with the date November 22nd 1996.

At the Door of Memory-Aubrey Rike Broken Silence-Ray 'Tex' Brown JFK Conspiracy of Silence-Charles Crenshaw + not sure this got to publication, I have the manuscript. Dallas Did It-Madeleine Brown & Connie Kritzberg

From memory I think Groden had one photograph of a mark on the paved area north side of Elm St., which Groden purports lines up with the TSBD west window. There is also the supposed mark on the manhole cover that Groden proposes lines up with the Records Bldg., on the south side of Elm with Buddy Walthers in the photograph , where the mysterious feebee agent is pictured picking something out of the grass. I recall Bill Decker in the Lead car reported a bullet strike hit the road. If we include the statements of Stavis Ellis, H.R. Freeman, Dr Evalea Glanges and reporter Richard Dudman seeing a hole in the windshield and add those to Tague's strike and it's getting like the Alamo.

Cheers Pat. Sounds logical to me. To quote 'Apollo 13', "You're a steely eyed missile man."

To answer the question in the title of this thread, 'Was James Tague hit by anything?' It appears Mr Tague was hit by a piece of concrete from the Main St., curb, which could only have been struck in turn by a bullet, or bullet fragment. According to Tague's W.C. testimony he heard the first shot (a loud firecracker like a canon blast) after the presidential limousine had turned onto Elm St., Tague believed he was hit around the time of the second shot. He testified to three shots and was under the impression they came from the pergola area on the north knoll. F.B.I. tests on the curb found no copper deposits on the strike point, indicating if the bullet was fired from Oswald's rifle it must have been a bullet fragment that hit ten to fifteen feet away from Tague's standing position. Tague was unable to get entry into the Plaza for the fiftieth anniversary in 2013. Curbed on two occasions! He was in bad shape physically. I got him to sign a copy of his 'LBJ & The Kennedy Killing' with very shaky handwriting. James passed just a dozen weeks later.

Pat, Catching up on this thread and particularly your entry above, had me digging through my long list of quotes notes. At some point in history I've copied, from where I know not, the sentence below. (Possibly from some vid featuring Parkland doctors) I assume it relates to immediately after the Parkland press statements. Is it kosher? Dr McClelland witnessed someone come up to Perry who he thought was a S.S. agent who told Perry, "You must never ever say that was an entrance wound again if you know what is good for you."

Denny, one more for your early witnesses:- Motorcycle Patrolman Willie Price was at the Motor Pool at the Trade Mart. He was then assigned to escort Vice President Johnson to Parkland Hospital. Upon arrival he then assisted in removing the mortally wounded President from the limo. In his interview with Wes Wise and Bob Porter for the Sixth Floor Oral History Collection on the 24th September 1994, he was asked about JFK's wounds. Price said, "Well I knew the back of his head was blown out. He was dead right there. He had to be."

Aaron L. (Red) Edwards was a detective in the Burglary & Theft Bureau. On the 22nd he took affidavits from witnesses in the Sheriffs Office. However he is not named as being present in the basement on the 24th., in Westbrook's listing. I have encountered one other D.P.D. member with the epithet of 'red' & that was because of his hair colour not any political affiliation. However also not mentioned in Westbrook's list was Homicide Det. Leslie Dell Montgomery, who is visible in Bob Jackson's photograph. Also Lt. James R. Gilmore (Vice Section), Det. E.R. Beck & Patrolman Ronald C. Nelson were present, but not listed, according to the W.C. testimony of Lt Jack Revill Sadly the Police Reserve personnel (and there were apparently over 20 of these in and around the basement at the time of Oswald's transfer) are not covered in any lists giving their duties etc. So a Worley, & 'Red' Davis, like Croy may well be one of these reserve officers. I think we need David Joseph to add his info here.

At present busy working through the manuscript of Ian Griggs' work on the D.P.D. personnel employed over the 22nd-24th November '63 I have found this thread as some interest in relation to my editorial work. Ian's manuscript contains an appendix that lists DPD officers on duty in the basement of City Hall on the 24th. The list of 68 names was compiled by Cpt. Westbrook and submitted to Chief Curry on the 1st December '63. I believe this list is in the W.C. Vol. 24 as CE2003. Of the names mentioned in the posts above I find it strange that Asst. Chief Batchelor is not included in the list. As for P.O. Alvin R. Brock the Griggs list of D.P.D. Officers states that he was in the City Hall basement guarding a lift until being re-assigned at 10:45 for traffic control duty at the junction of Elm & Ervay in preparation for the Oswald transfer. The only name of Worley employed with the D.P.D. was a Roma Worley, she was a stenographer in personnel & typist for Westbrook. I would be grateful for more information on 'Red' Davis. The only Davis on the D.P.D. list is a Sgt Hugh F. Davis who is not listed in the Westbrook list. Also a Glen D. Davies who was a Jail Guard. There were 21 officers of the Police Reserve in and around the basement, all these were not included in Westbrook's list so no mention of Croy.

JB, There is no need to pepper your posts with sarcastic references to fake moon landings and green cheese or levels of amateurishness. The JFK assassination case is littered with malfeasance. The Secret Service's stripping of JFK's protection in Dallas followed by their Bethesda casket conjuring tricks alone would incite any reasonable person to question the validity of other aspects of the case. It is your prerogative to discount the weight of witness statements that question what is seen in the Zapruder film. Fine. You go your way and I'll go mine. Regarding McMahon's credibility. His statement of his being a recovering drug addict/alcoholic I find neither here nor there. Why throw the baby out with the bath water? My point has been that there were two separate NPIC operations, seemingly on 23rd & 24th November, one with an 8mm film, then another with McMahon & Hunter with a 16mm film. McMahon identified his own handwriting as well as identifying the briefing boards. So, what should a reasonable open-minded person like myself conclude was the logical purpose and function of these two events? However, let's leave it at that. I'm completely convinced that what each of us sees in Zapruder's film, never the twain shall meet.

Well, the official verdict of pilot error doesn't compute with me. Communicating with Martha's Vineyard on approach for permission to land one minute, (proves he wasn't suffering from spatial disorientation) then the next, spiralling out of control into the sea. If so why should luggage and plane debris be scattered miles from where the main body of the Piper was located? As D.J. writes in his 'I Protest' there were three witnesses who saw an explosion in the sky over the ocean. Sadly, we will never know for sure what happened. The MSM just parrots the simplistic official verdict once again.

Tom, my bad here. I'm going off memory which isn't a good idea in my case. What I meant was Hunter's wife informed CIA's HRG that Ben was at NPIC working on the Zapruder film, which HRG confirmed to A.R.R.B. Yes agree it was McMahon who told of the S.S. agent Smith who supposedly informed McMahon that the film he brought to NPIC he had picked up from Rochester? Not sure though why you describe McMahon as a witness with major credibility problems.

Sorry Jeremy, we'll agree to disagree. I feel that's all too dismissive. Erwin Swartz saw the original film around 15 times in Dallas and describes exit debris back & left, not the mist on the film today. If the film hasn't been altered, why all these discrepancies? You also cannot prove there has not been alteration. In a case with evidence of multi nefarious events i.e. Secret Service protection stripping, fraudulent autopsy with early body entry in shipping casket/body bag, the killing of Oswald followed by the FBI/Warren whitewash it is in my view quite some level of amateurishness to dismiss outright a mountain of anomalies. The only evidence? McMahon gave testimony to the A.R.R.B. in '97., along with Ben Hunter who both confirmed they were at NPIC on Sunday 24th November & received from a S.S. agent Bill Smith coming from Rochester with a 16mm wide unslit double 8 film. A second-hand piece of hearsay isn't usually confirmed by the CIA's Historical Review Group.

😆 Keep pushing this Cliff. The truth will out!