Was Lansdale in Dealey Plaza?

[Joe Bauer]

The shoulders are definitely stooped and drooped in the Dealey Plaza photo.

And his hands "are" lower than the tall tramp's in that photo even though they are very close to the same height.

In the photo with Dulles and the other two men on the right, notice that Lansdale's hands hang lower than everyone else's, even though the two men on the right are "shorter" than Lansdale. 

In that photo Dulles is "maybe" a bit taller and even "his" arms don't hang down as low as Lansdale's.

Those are some unusually long arms on Lansdale.

And as well on the Dealey Plaza man.

 

Edited September 8, 2017 by Joe Bauer

[Michael Walton]

19 hours ago, Michael Cross said:

The guy walking past the tramps with his back to the camera had glasses on.  It doesn't really prove anything, but I've yet to find a photo of Lansdale wearing them.

Look through this thread at the photo I put together.  They're not sunglasses.

[David Andrews]

Even innocent me owns a pair of fake glasses.  And people who don't want to be recognized put on their readers or little-used prescription lenses all the time.

Edited September 9, 2017 by David Andrews

[Michael Walton]

Unless there is absolute photographic proof that someone can show a full-frontal photo of Lansdale standing there minutes after the shooting with a walkie-talkie in his hand, this is all nothing but a bunch of hokum, and urban legend.

That seems to be the problem with "researchers" here - read State Secret and you will see the mechanics behind what was happening to Oswald while he was in the USSR and after he returned.

Yes, Lansdale, Morales, Bill Harvey and the usual cast of characters are mentioned in it. 

Does it mean they were actually there manning the phones and throwing the rifles in the trunks of the get away cars?  Of course not.  They didn't need to be there anyway. Just like Hoover, Nixon, Hunt, Mac Wallace and others did not need to be there (if you choose to believe those people had a hand in it).

Has anyone not ever seen the film Clear and Present Danger?  Though fictional, remember the shooters being dropped into the staging area? Where were the big wigs monitoring the action?  There?  Of course not - they were monitoring 50 and 1000 miles away. And the only people on the ground were the shooters.  That's all.

So why would they risk having the planners actually there standing around in Dealey possibly being exposed on film and photo? Try to give the planners a little credit for planning it out carefully; otherwise, they would have had to have been the dumbest masterminds of all time to have actually been there.

[Joe Bauer]

As I mentioned earlier; if the JFK assassination was a coup, it was the most important, dangerous, risky, highest stakes covert action operation in the history of our country by an almost incalculable factor.

And as such, requiring "unprecedented" tight  ( perhaps even minute to minute ) control of every detail, especially on the ground in the killing zone , beyond anything before it.

One understands why the true highest up controllers of most violence required operations position themselves relatively far away from the action, but "in this particular event" it would not be illogical to believe that those standard and traditional operation protocols might be changed to include closer-in control participation by at least "a few"  of the real action experienced higher ups, considering the stakes.

 

Edited September 9, 2017 by Joe Bauer

[Joe Bauer]

On 8/25/2017 at 0:21 PM, Michael Walton said:

This is the most I'll do - made this in April 2016. It's an animated GIF that loops and the file size is a little large so let it load. It doesn't prove anything except it shows the guy people think is Lansdale is wearing glasses:

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7Hr9Lrku-Cxczd5THIwOEpiY2c/view?usp=sharing

Michael is this posting of yours in April of the up close version of the tramp walk man next to the Texas School Book Depository building exactly as shown back then? With the "glasses" word comment and arrow graphics? Just curious.

[Michael Walton]

1 hour ago, Joe Bauer said:

As I mentioned earlier; if the JFK assassination was a coup, it was the most important, dangerous, risky, highest stakes covert action operation in the history of our country by an almost incalculable factor.

Was it really that "dangerous" and "risky" as you describe it? They had more than enough guns to get the job done. Yes, if they were going to have a single Day of the Jackal guy there, then yes, that to me would have been risky.

But they didn't. If we are to believe this was a coup with multiple shooters, then that greatly lessens the risk and dangerousness of it. Hatred has a way of building up an individual's or a team's confidence. Everyone was highly motivated to get the job done to the point of possibly over-shooting their hand so to speak.

They totally and completely took advantage of the surrounding area - the crowds had thinned out, everyone who was there was - for the most part - happy and smiling and waving.  The entire motorcade may have started off a little nervous with the big crowds and the building windows open on both sides. But they were at the tail end of the parade and with nothing but good vibes, Dealey was nothing more than an afterthought.

Take a look at this photo below. Would you ever - today - see a presidential procession like this with all of the craziness and hate out there that we read see almost on a daily basis?  Of course not.

So this whole "Landsdale and Hunt and Hoover and Bush were lurking around after the shooting" craziness is just speculation and fantasy.

[Michael Walton]

Yes I made that and I did not modify the image in any way except ONLY to highlight that that guy everyone things is Lansdale has glasses on.

[Joe Bauer]

On 8/25/2017 at 12:21 PM, Michael Walton said:

 

Michael, maybe by the time Lansdale reached 55 years of age, he did use glasses , if only for part time use?

And I know from experience, that I much prefer not wearing my glasses when someone takes a picture of me which might explain why so many "public domain" photos of Lansdale do not show him with glasses?

Great shot with good graphics in that post of yours.

And I agree about the chain link gate, diamond shape plate shadow showing clear glasses versus shaded ones.

If they were sunglasses the opaqueness of them would show a "solid" shadow versus an open frame one. 

You say that if this was a planned operation it's carrying out would not be as dangerous and risky as I propose?

I of course, disagree. The stakes for failure were just too high.

The fact that Dealey Plaza was not as crowded as downtown Dallas, ( but still had what 200 to 300 people gathered there? ) would still provide enough running body and traffic "chaos and panic" to help create confusion for the purpose of real gunman escape diversion. 

If Oswald was actually the gunman and did what he did from the TXSBD building 6th floor lair, it is almost unbelievable to accept the reality that he could then simply get up, throw his rifle in between some boxes, run down the stairs, stop in the lunch room 4 floors down to put change into a soda pop machine, pop the cap and then drink some of this, then calmly give pay phone location info to reporter Robert MacNeil on the first floor before he then simply walkes out of the building and heads over a couple of blocks to catch a bus, which he then gets off because it's stuck in traffic, and in his southern gentleman mind set, offers his first cabbie ride to another more desperate woman ... without some diversion help.

IMO, Oswald's frantic escape interruption episode of stopping at a soda pop machine in the 2nd floor lunch room to refresh his thirst is laughably preposterous. Just imagine yourself in Oswald's position and mind set after doing something so Earth shakingly powerful and violent and knowing that hundreds of trigger happy armed security forces would be charging his way within seconds ... would you then say to yourself just 4 stair flight steps away and only one or two minutes removed from your shooting action and location - Hmmm, man, an ice cold Dr. Pepper sure would taste good right about now."   

Machine change cha-ching, bottle slot drop, cap pop, fizz, gulp-gulp....aahhhh. 

 

 

Edited March 27, 2020 by Joe Bauer

[Roger DeLaria]

I've always thought this letter from Prouty to Jim Garrison was important, especially this small excerpt:

The "hit" is the easy part. The "escape" must be quick and professional. The cover-up and the scenario are the big jobs. They more than anything else prove the Lansdale mastery. 

Lansdale was a master writer and planner. He was a great "scenario" guy. It still have a lot of his personally typed material in my files. I am certain that he was behind the elaborate plan and mostly the intricate and enduring cover-up. Given a little help from friends at PEPSICO he could easily have gotten Nixon into Dallas, for "orientation': and LBJ in the cavalcade at the same time, contrary to Secret Service policy. 

He knew the "Protection" units and the "Secret Service", who was needed and who wasn't. Those were routine calls for him, and they would have believed him. Cabell could handle the police. 

The "hit men" were from CIA overseas sources, for instance, from the "Camp near Athena, Greece. They are trained, stateless, and ready to go at any time. They ask no questions: speak to no one. They are simply told what to do, when and where. Then they are told how they will be removed and protected. After all, they work for the U.S. Government. The "Tramps" were actors doing the job of cover-up. The hit men are just pros. They do the job for the CIA anywhere. They are impersonal. They get paid. They get protected, and they have enough experience to "blackmail" anyone, if anyone ever turns on them...just like Drug agents. The job was clean, quick and neat. No ripples. 

The whole story of the POWER of the Cover-up comes down to a few points. There has never been a Grand Jury and trial in Texas. Without a trial there can be nothing. Without a trial it does no good for researchers to dig up data. It has no place to go and what the researchers reveal just helps make the cover-up tighter, or they eliminate that evidence and the researcher. 
 

The first man LBJ met with on Nov 29th, after he had cleared the foreign dignitaries out of Washington was Waggoner Carr, Atty Gen'l, Texas to tell him, "No trial in Texas...ever." 

The next man he met, also on Nov 29th, was J. Edgar Hoover. The first question LBJ asked his old "19 year" neighbor in DC was "Were THEY shooting at me?" LBJ thought that THEY had been shooting at him also as they shot at his friend John Connally. Note that he asked, "Were THEY shooting at me?" LBJ knew there were several hitmen. That's the ultimate clue...THEY. 

[Sandy Larsen]

The photo might be strong evidence that the alleged Lansdale character was wearing fake (i.e. non-prescription) glasses.

Here is Mike Walton's animated gif demonstrating that the alleged Ed Lansdale in Dealey Plaza was wearing glasses. There is no disputing that fact as the glasses can clearly be seen in his shadow.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7Hr9Lrku-Cxczd5THIwOEpiY2c/view?usp=sharing

Problem is, the lenses of prescription glasses are supposed to cast shadows. In alleged Lansdale 's case, there is no shadow. It's as though the lenses are just plain glass.

The reason prescription glasses cast shadows is because they bend light, either inward or outward depending upon whether the lenses are convex or concave in shape (for farsighted or nearsighted users, respectively). Here are some webpages supporting my claim:

Why do my glasses cast a shadow?

Why Do The Lenses Of My Glasses Cast A Shadow?

Forum members reading this may want to check this out for themselves. If you do, make sure that you position your glasses far enough away from the light source that the light waves are radiating close to parallel with each other. Light rays near a light bulb radiate radially (not parallel) and so you won't be able to get a focused shadow. The shadow will be blurry. (You'll know you're far enough away from the bulb if the shadow is sharp, not blurry.)

I just tried this with my reading glassed. I had to position the glasses about 10 feet away from the light bulb in order to get a crisp looking shadow. The shadow of the lenses were indeed dark with the exception of a tiny image of the light bulb projected onto the wall in the middle of each lens shadow. (If I were outside, I would expect to see little projections of the sun.) When I rotated the glasses so that the light hit the lenses at an angle (as was the case in the Dealey Plaza photo), the little light-bulb projections actually moved so that they were located outside the shadows of the rims. (What an interesting effect.)  In that case the shadows covered the entire surface of the lenses.

Unfortunately I don't have any glasses for nearsightedness, which is what the guy in the photo would have been wearing. So I couldn't see for myself what the shadow for them would look like. Perhaps some readers of this thread could do some experimentation and report back.

Note that if the glasses are located too close to the wall displaying the shadow, a shadow will not appear because the light rays will not have converged or diverted enough at that point for the shadow to appear. In my experiment, I tried to make the distance about the same as what we see in the photo.

 

Edited September 10, 2017 by Sandy Larsen

[Michael Walton]

21 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

If Oswald was actually the gunman and did what he did from the TXSBD building 6th floor lair, it is almost unbelievable to accept the reality that he could then simply get up, throw his rifle in between some boxes, run down the stairs, stop in the lunch room 4 floors down to put change into a soda pop machine, pop the cap and then drink some of this before he then simply walked out of the building and headed over a couple of blocks to catch a bus, then get off and in his southern gentleman mind set, offer his first cabbie ride to another more desperate woman ... without some diversion help.

By the way, Oswald's frantic escape interruption episode of stopping at a soda pop machine in the 2nd floor lunch room to refresh his thirst is laughably preposterous. Just imagine yourself in Oswald's position and mind set after doing something so Earth shakingly powerful and violent and knowing that hundreds of trigger happy armed security forces would be charging his way within seconds ... would you say to yourself just steps removed from your shooting location,   Hmmm, man, an ice cold Dr. Pepper sure would taste good right about now."   HA! 

Yes, I agree with everything you say here. The man was set up, there's no question about it.

[Ron Bulman]

On ‎9‎/‎9‎/‎2017 at 9:01 AM, David Andrews said:

Even innocent me owns a pair of fake glasses.  And people who don't want to be recognized put on their readers or little-used prescription lenses all the time.

Me too David.

https://www.bing.com/search?q=zz+top+cheap+sunglasses&form=PRUSEN&mkt=en-us&httpsmsn=1&refig=1036cc2b73234d1089eed38a970010a9&sp=1&qs=AS&pq=zz+top+cheap&sc=8-12&cvid=1036cc2b73234d1089eed38a970010a9

Lansdale in Dealy Plaza is a conundrum for me.  I think Fletcher Prouty is a credible source, especially in this case with Krulack's back up.   But, like Morales, I have a hard time seeing him being there close enough to be identified much less photographed.  He was a Brigadier General after all was he not?

 

Edited September 11, 2017 by Ron Bulman

[Joe Bauer]

I have wondered why at least one researcher in the last 40 to 50 years hasn't secured the services of one or two top experts in the field of comparative human anatomy, physiology and loco-motion movement to compare the Dealey Plaza lanky man photo with so many others of Lansdale throughout his career?

I am assuming that the Dealey Plaza photo would be sufficient for them to draw decently strong scientific measurement degree findings in either eliminating the Dealey Plaza man as Lansdale or not.

Of course financial means must be by far the number one reason this hasn't been done.

I don't think any JFK researcher has ever had enough private monies available to fund such a study.

If I was financially able, I would initiate this study right away as I have always felt the Dealey Plaza man looked too much like Lansdale to dismiss this as a fact and ignore the ramifications of his presence in Dealey Plaza at the time the photo was taken.

Bolstered by long time, personally interacting aquaintances of Lansdale Fletcher Prouty and General Victor Krulak both expressing their belief that the Dealey Plaza man is indeed Lansdale.

Edited March 26, 2020 by Joe Bauer

[Cory Santos]

There is still zero evidence he was there.