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Was Bugliosi an intelligence asset?


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5 minutes ago, Robert Burrows said:

Was he working for the intelligence services as far back as the Manson case, and did he use the Manson case to smear the Beatles Vis-à-vis the whole nonsensical "Helter Skelter" fiction?

I love that line from U2's 1988 Rattle and Hum concert film where Bono says, "Here's a song Charles Manson stole from the Beatles.  We're stealing it back!"

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3 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

I love that line from U2's 1988 Rattle and Hum concert film where Bono says, "Here's a song Charles Manson stole from the Beatles.  We're stealing it back!"

I've always enjoyed that line too, however, I think it was stolen and perverted at a much higher level than Charlie Mason. I think that it culminated in Lennon's assassination in 1980 by elements of the national security state. 

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54 minutes ago, Robert Burrows said:

I've always enjoyed that line too, however, I think it was stolen and perverted at a much higher level than Charlie Mason. I think that it culminated in Lennon's assassination in 1980 by elements of the national security state. 

Robert,

I just found the clip.  It was actually the opening line in the 1988 film, Rattle and Hum, filmed at a live U2 concert in Denver's McNichols Sports Arena in November of 1987.  The Irish in America.

(The dramatic live concert footage in Rattle and Hum was filmed at McNichols Arena and at Sun Devil Stadium in Tempe, Arizona.)

Unfortunately, I was working at the Colorado State Hospital (in Pueblo, Colorado) that year, and I missed that U2 concert.

Apologies for temporarily hijacking your thread about James DiEugenio's favorite true crime historian, Vincent Bugliosi... 🤥

 

Edited by W. Niederhut
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It seems like I remember reading something of an allegation that Bugsy was compromised somehow early on maybe even before Manson.  Not sure where, maybe towards the end of Chaos, about Manson by Tom O'Neil.  Maybe I'll pull it off the shelf and dig a bit later or tomorrow.

W, that doesn't constitute hijacking.  Helter Skelter and Manson relate to the bigger picture.  It's also an allegation that some of the drugs he freely distributed and sold were clandestinely provided by a possible affiliate of the MKULTRA program.  This goes back further to Haight Ashbury and Jolly West's observatory.

This might be considered hijacking.  Then again Friday Bloody Friday fits as well.

 

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32 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

It seems like I remember reading something of an allegation that Bugsy was compromised somehow early on maybe even before Manson.  Not sure where, maybe towards the end of Chaos, about Manson by Tom O'Neil.  Maybe I'll pull it off the shelf and dig a bit later or tomorrow.

W, that doesn't constitute hijacking.  Helter Skelter and Manson relate to the bigger picture.  It's also an allegation that some of the drugs he freely distributed and sold were clandestinely provided by a possible affiliate of the MKULTRA program.  This goes back further to Haight Ashbury and Jolly West's observatory.

This might be considered hijacking.  Then again Friday Bloody Friday fits as well.

 

Yes, it's amazing to see how much younger the band looked in that 1983 Red Rocks Under a Blood Red Sky concert compared to their 1988 Rattle and Hum tour.  Boyz to Men.

The '83 tour featured songs from their original War album.  The Rattle and Hum tour featured mostly songs from their terrific Joshua Tree album (and a few from The Unforgettable Fire album, including the MLK tribute, Pride (In the Name of Love.)

Edited by W. Niederhut
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4 hours ago, Robert Burrows said:

I've always enjoyed that line too, however, I think it was stolen and perverted at a much higher level than Charlie Mason. I think that it culminated in Lennon's assassination in 1980 by elements of the national security state. 

I also consider John Lennon's death an assassination...

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1 hour ago, W. Niederhut said:

Yes, it's amazing to see how much younger the band looked in that 1983 Red Rocks Under a Blood Red Sky concert compared to their 1988 Rattle and Hum tour.  Boyz to Men.

The '83 tour featured songs from their original War album.  The Rattle and Hum tour featured mostly songs from their terrific Joshua Tree album (and a few from The Unforgettable Fire album, including the MLK tribute, Pride (In the Name of Love.)

 Addendum:  It just occurred to me that the difference in age for the guys in U2 from 1983 to 1988 (above) is identical to the difference in age for the Beatles from Hard Day's Night (1964) to Let It Be (1969.)

All things must pass.

Now, back to Bugliosi... 🤥

 

1964

50 years ago, 'A Hard Day's Night' returned music to its rightful place in  the movies - New York Daily News

 

1969

When The Beatles played their last live gig

Edited by W. Niederhut
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2 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

It seems like I remember reading something of an allegation that Bugsy was compromised somehow early on maybe even before Manson.  Not sure where, maybe towards the end of Chaos

Hey Ron,

I haven't yet read CHAOS. However I do recall reading about Bugliosi's illegal behavior, pretty sure it was DiEugenio who wrote about it. This was Bugliosi stalking and threatening a milk-man who he believed had xxxxed his wife. To the point that he even kidnapped the guy's daughter and took her to a toy store. It was unimaginably psychotic behavior and something that would be absolutely compromising. Especially given his political aspirations. 

Here is some more good stuff:

http://wvw.mansonblog.com/pdf/BUG_FILE.pdf

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Bugliosi wanted to be a name, the money i dont think was the driving factor at first.

I believe his motivation was to be famous to a degree.  In the mid to late 60's tv and talk shows were just kicking into gear, publicity and notoriety was launching university speaking tours, honorary degree's, leading to more books, more fame and travel.

If the CIA or FBI knew that was his personal weakness, does anyone here not believe they would have utilised his personality traits to push their agenda's. Feed him some undisclosed information, let him push a theory or two they knew was correct, make him look credible. Then push their lies thru him and his now growing platform. He never budged an inch in the 80's and 90's when his bullshit walls were crumbling. That man was brought and paid for.

AJ

 

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Hey Ray,

When I was a lad I noticed that British singers would lose their accents while singing. My question for you is this: When Americans sing, do they lose their accents?

One more question: I visited England in 1977 when I was 22 years old. My first day there, I walked into a shop and a very attractive sales girl greeted me by saying " 'ello love! "  After picking myself up off the floor (because that would be considered one heck of a flirt in America), I nearly replied by saying " g'day darlin'. " But I stopped myself short and instead replied with a simple, "hi!" Which is a good thing because I soon discovered that that was no come-on!

Anyway, my question is... what would have been a good, friendly, British way for me to respond?

(Sorry for the off-topic questions. It's Niederhut's fault for posting those Beatles photos... they reminded me of these questions I've long had.)

Edited by Sandy Larsen
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On 11/18/2021 at 3:27 AM, Pamela Brown said:

I also consider John Lennon's death an assassination...

Yeah, I'm with you & Ray.  Read Fenton Bresler's book years back & smelled an MK/Ultra rat....with possibly a CIA doorman.

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11 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Hey Ray,

When I was a lad I noticed that British singers would lose their accents while singing. My question for you is this: When Americans sing, do they lose their accents?

One more question: I visited England in 1977 when I was 22 years old. My first day there, I walked into a shop and a very attractive sales girl greeted me by saying " 'ello love! "  After picking myself up off the floor (because that would be considered one heck of a flirt in America), I nearly replied by saying " g'day darlin'. " But I stopped myself short and instead replied with a simple, "hi!" Which is a good thing because I soon discovered that that was no come-on!

Anyway, my question is... what would have been a good, friendly, British way for me to respond?

(Sorry for the off-topic questions. It's Niederhut's fault for posting those Beatles photos... they reminded me of these questions I've long had.)

Sandy, your 'ello love' greeting sounds very northern England, not a 'come on', just normal alternative to hello, so your 'hi' reply was about right.

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