JFK: Case NOT Closed

[James DiEugenio]

This book by Dave O'Brien with Johnny Cairns is pretty interesting.

Dave brings up a good question: why did Oswald choose that window to fire from instead of the southwestern one, which had all the advantages, like no tree etc.

IMO, Johnny is one of the best younger critics we have in this case.  

https://www.kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-reviews/jfk-case-not-closed

[Denny Zartman]

Good review, James. It sounds like an interesting book.

Regarding the location of the southwest corner for a shooter: When discussing the case online I often run across a person who thinks Oswald was trying to kill Connally. Ignoring the illogic of trying to kill a Governor in a situation of maximum security (therefore maximum risk) when an potential assassin could literally choose any other day, the same question arises as it would for JFK - why not fire as the car was going north on Houston? It would have been much easier in all respects and a certain kill. Why would Oswald, assuming he really was in that window and wanted either or both dead, wait until the car had turned the corner? In order for him not to be seen? Correct me if I'm wrong, but there was a whole vehicle load of press going north on Houston at the time of the shooting. I seem to recall that one of the reporters shouted out that they saw a rifleperson in the sixth floor window. It's a shame that out of all those reporters, none were able to take what would have been the photo of the century.

[Lawrence Schnapf]

i had several discussions with Cairns about chain of custody and other legal issues. i hope he digested the info and explained it well 

[Benjamin Cole]

2 hours ago, Denny Zartman said:

Good review, James. It sounds like an interesting book.

Regarding the location of the southwest corner for a shooter: When discussing the case online I often run across a person who thinks Oswald was trying to kill Connally. Ignoring the illogic of trying to kill a Governor in a situation of maximum security (therefore maximum risk) when an potential assassin could literally choose any other day, the same question arises as it would for JFK - why not fire as the car was going north on Houston? It would have been much easier in all respects and a certain kill. Why would Oswald, assuming he really was in that window and wanted either or both dead, wait until the car had turned the corner? In order for him not to be seen? Correct me if I'm wrong, but there was a whole vehicle load of press going north on Houston at the time of the shooting. I seem to recall that one of the reporters shouted out that they saw a rifleperson in the sixth floor window. It's a shame that out of all those reporters, none were able to take what would have been the photo of the century.

One possibility is the plan was to hold fire until the presidential limo was near the Stemmons Freeway sign. In this way, the gunfire from the Grassy Knoll could serve as a diversion.  My guess is LHO fired but intended to miss, and the real gunfire came from the Dal-Tex building. LHO's gunfire was also something of a diversion, and believed he was participating in a fake, false-flag attack on the president, an intentionally unsuccessful JFKA. 

[William Paris]

Both were on Black Op Radio recently.   Very good episode.

 

[Joseph McBride]

The LHO false-flag diversion theory (the theory

Don DeLillo employs in his novel LIBRA, a book that otherwise

has some merits) never made any sense to me. Oswald

would have been an idiot to get involved in that. He was not

an idiot. But he was a patriot and was too trusting of the FBI. He was

an FBI informant who had infiltrated the plot against JFK.

He met with the FBI two or three times that November

before the assassination.

Edited March 15, 2022 by Joseph McBride

[Benjamin Cole]

3 hours ago, Joseph McBride said:

The LHO false-flag diversion theory (the theory

Don DeLillo employs in his novel LIBRA, a book that otherwise

has some merits) never made any sense to me. Oswald

would have been an idiot to get involved in that. He was not

an idiot. But he was a patriot and was too trusting of the FBI. He was

an FBI informant who had infiltrated the plot against JFK.

He met with the FBI two or three times that November

before the assassination.

Joe-

 

Well, I have not won a lot of converts to my fake false-flag JFKA attempt theory. (That is, LHO participated in what he thought would be an intentionally failed JFKA, that would be blamed on Castro-ites). Phillips planned the false-flag fake JFKA.

Yet, I am uncomfortable with the idea that LHO, a CIA-intel asset, was minding his own business that day and JFKA was assassinated as he passed LHO by in a CIA plot, and then they blamed everything on LHO. Not one person claims to have seen LHO at the time gunshots rang out. Where was he? What if LHO had gone down to the street to see JFK? LHO had an intense interest in politics.  

To make LHO the patsy, a sensible plan would have him out of sight at the time of JFKA. And he was. And somebody fired from the TSBD (and likely the Dal-Tex building and the Grassy Knoll area). 

In my scenario, we do not know what sort of promises were made to LHO, pre-JFKA.  Perhaps he was told the Mannlicher Carcano would be traced to the mysterious Hidell and thus a dead-end, or that the FBI would fix evidence to clear him. After all, the FBI did fix evidence. And after 11/22, LHO would be in line for a big promotion in the spy-world, higher pay and better assignments. 

Things went haywire after the JFKA happened for real. 

 

https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/27073-towards-a-simple-plausible-yet-explanatory-conspiracy-theory/#comment-439565

The loooonnnggg explanation....

 

 

 

Edited March 15, 2022 by Benjamin Cole
add on

[Ron Bulman]

23 hours ago, Joseph McBride said:

The LHO false-flag diversion theory (the theory

Don DeLillo employs in his novel LIBRA, a book that otherwise

has some merits) never made any sense to me. Oswald

would have been an idiot to get involved in that. He was not

an idiot. But he was a patriot and was too trusting of the FBI. He was

an FBI informant who had infiltrated the plot against JFK.

He met with the FBI two or three times that November

before the assassination.

An FBI informant being run by the CIA as well?  Joannides was funding the DRE in the summer of 1963 in New Orleans. . .  IDK, I defer to you and others.

Edited March 16, 2022 by Ron Bulman

[Allen Lowe]

Oswald was innocent, but he wasn't an innocent, IMHO. Nagell warned him well before the assassination that it was in the works and that he was being manipulated. But he was making some money and he likely was too naive to realize how vulnerable he was.

[David Andrews]

Does anyone know the origin of the posited false-flag "attempt" in Dealey Plaza?  I only recall reading about it in a non-fiction work between 1974 and 1988, the year Don DeLillo's novel Libra was published.  As I've said before, my first thought upon reading a review of Libra was, "Oh, DeLillo's heard that rumor, too."

But what is the provenance of the rumor?  Was it speculation by researchers in the 1960s to 1970s, or did someone with first-hand knowledge of the case suggest or state that there was a false-flag possibility?  Does anyone remember their first encounter with the rumor?

[Benjamin Cole]

4 hours ago, David Andrews said:

Does anyone know the origin of the posited false-flag "attempt" in Dealey Plaza?  I only recall reading about it in a non-fiction work between 1974 and 1988, the year Don DeLillo's novel Libra was published.  As I've said before, my first thought upon reading a review of Libra was, "Oh, DeLillo's heard that rumor, too."

But what is the provenance of the rumor?  Was it speculation by researchers in the 1960s to 1970s, or did someone with first-hand knowledge of the case suggest or state that there was a false-flag possibility?  Does anyone remember their first encounter with the rumor?

I do not know of the provenance of other versions, but I independently came to my version. I didn't even know of earlier versions. 

However, since I wrote my version, researcher John Newman has challenged the purported meeting between Antonio Veciana and Phillips aka Bishop. That meeting, if it occurred, lent a lot of credence to the idea Phillips was involved in the JFKA. But maybe the meeting never occurred. 

Still, my version fits the known facts. It also explains the Walker non-shooting as a practice run. 

For those of you who are Marcello-did-it fans:

Robert Blakey, mob-hunter pursued the Marcello version at the HCSA, and dropped hints but no conclusions.

However, by 2018, Blakey was publicly stating that he suspected Herminio Diaz and Eladio Del Valle were in Dealey Plaza that day.  In other words, Cuban exiles and CIA assets. 

 

 

[David Andrews]

2 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

I do not know of the provenance of other versions, but I independently came to my version. I didn't even know of earlier versions. 

However, since I wrote my version, researcher John Newman has challenged the purported meeting between Antonio Veciana and Phillips aka Bishop. That meeting, if it occurred, lent a lot of credence to the idea Phillips was involved in the JFKA. But maybe the meeting never occurred. 

Still, my version fits the known facts. It also explains the Walker non-shooting as a practice run. 

For those of you who are Marcello-did-it fans:

Robert Blakey, mob-hunter pursued the Marcello version at the HCSA, and dropped hints but no conclusions.

However, by 2018, Blakey was publicly stating that he suspected Herminio Diaz and Eladio Del Valle were in Dealey Plaza that day.  In other words, Cuban exiles and CIA assets. 

 

 

Not doubting your research Ben.  Just trying to figure out if anyone can remember a posited false-flag written about in the 1970s, or other early reports.

My Bible in those days was They've Killed the President by Robert Sam Anson, a book that's taken some fire in years since (on grounds I can't remember).  I wonder if I read it there.

[Benjamin Cole]

11 minutes ago, David Andrews said:

Not doubting your research Ben.  Just trying to figure out if anyone can remember a posited false-flag written about in the 1970s, or other early reports.

My Bible in those days was They've Killed the President by Robert Sam Anson, a book that's taken some fire in years since (on grounds I can't remember).  I wonder if I read it there.

Verily, theories galore on the JFKA, including mine. 

 

[John Kowalski]

Jim:

Do you know when the 4 hour version will be out on DVD?

 

[Greg Doudna]

On 3/18/2022 at 6:58 PM, Benjamin Cole said:

For those of you who are Marcello-did-it fans:

Robert Blakey, mob-hunter pursued the Marcello version at the HCSA, and dropped hints but no conclusions.

However, by 2018, Blakey was publicly stating that he suspected Herminio Diaz and Eladio Del Valle were in Dealey Plaza that day.  In other words, Cuban exiles and CIA assets. 

The Marcello theories, such as HSCA, Blakey, and everyone else, have it Marcello-Trafficante, in which although Marcello was in closest control of Dallas, police contacts and (via Ferrie and Banister) Oswald, the actual shooters likely came from Trafficante in Florida. Herminio Diaz was Trafficante's bodyguard (http://cuban-exile.com/doc_026-050/doc0027-1.html). "Del Valle worked for Trafficante in the U.S. and was an associate of his in Cuba" (https://www.kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/the-cia-and-mafia-s-cuban-american-mechanism-and-the-jfk-assassination). 

What makes you sure that associates of Trafficante doing the shooting in Dallas (if so) were not sent by Trafficante?