Gil Jesus Posted January 8, 2023 Author Share Posted January 8, 2023 (edited) Something that has always bugged me is this photo taken inside the Carousel Club showing a man in the audience. Who was this man ? Could this man have been mistaken by witnesses as Oswald ? Or did Ruby and Oswald know each other ? The Commission never identified him. Another thing that bugs me is the photo on the left taken from Oswald's DOD card stamped October 23, 1963. The Commission never mentioned that Oswald had been issued a DOD card during the time he was working at the TSBD building. Why not ? And how did this military photo of Oswald find it's way onto the fake "Hidell" Selective Service Card ? Is this evidence that the fake draft card was made AFTER October 23, 1963, when Oswald was working in the TSBD building ? The Commission never answered those questions either. Edited January 8, 2023 by Gil Jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Rose Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 The fake Selective Service card is a helluva mystery. What was it for? Any American man would have known it was bogus because Selective Service cards didn't have photos on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Andrews Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 On 1/7/2023 at 10:32 AM, Paul Brancato said: I don’t buy the photo comparison. In fact I have this problem in other areas when photos don’t seem to match. Maybe some AI program could be enlisted to compare the photos. But I think what we would find is a high probability rather than a certainty that the photos are of the same individual. It's time some operator applied the vaunted facial recognition tech to the Oswald photos. With the rep it's acquiring and the number of users, this can't be far off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Koch Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 On 1/8/2023 at 4:33 AM, Gil Jesus said: Something that has always bugged me is this photo taken inside the Carousel Club showing a man in the audience. Who was this man ? Could this man have been mistaken by witnesses as Oswald ? Or did Ruby and Oswald know each other ? The Commission never identified him. Another thing that bugs me is the photo on the left taken from Oswald's DOD card stamped October 23, 1963. The Commission never mentioned that Oswald had been issued a DOD card during the time he was working at the TSBD building. Why not ? And how did this military photo of Oswald find it's way onto the fake "Hidell" Selective Service Card ? Is this evidence that the fake draft card was made AFTER October 23, 1963, when Oswald was working in the TSBD building ? The Commission never answered those questions either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Bulman Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Matthew Koch said: A very interesting video I've never seen before. Thanks Matt. An unsavory character, he worked for the mob. Such a strange coincidence says Rather. "He worked for the mob", DeMarr. So did he, covering for them. Edited January 11, 2023 by Ron Bulman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Krome Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 100% the same guy in both photos. The lighting source and the haircuts contribute to the perception of two different people. The left photo has the light source coming in from top left, which "flattens" the chin and shadows the nose and one ear. The right photo has the eyes better illuminated by the camera flash. I'm also seeing a difference in pupil size, which makes sense with the different light sources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 On 1/7/2023 at 7:55 AM, Gil Jesus said: What was the US Government's game in using the pictures of two different individuals and claiming they were both Lee Harvey Oswald ? These two are obviously NOT the same person. I think these are two different individuals for the following reasons: 1. The epicanthic fold. The fold of skin in the upper eyelid where it meets the inner corner of the eye. Closely examine the inner corner of the left eye of both individuals. 2. The shape of the nostrils. 3. The skull shapes. One is more dolichocephalic (long and thin). The other is more brachycephalic (short and broad-headed. 4. With the individual on the left, the top of his ears barely reach about the middle of his eyes. With the individual on the right, the top of his ears extend well above his eyes, almost to his eyebrows. Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 These are varieties of supposedly the same photo.. I am always suspicious of lines across photos.. even if folds... The two side by sides of the image look like different facial features such as the distance from nose to mouth appears less in the image on the right... and both look different from the photo on the application... FWIW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ness Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 (edited) Just for drill I took the two photos and removed the distortion in one of them and rescaled them to try and make a comparison. Although I haven't done any identification type of work, I'm fairly familiar with photography and very familiar with digital editing. I'm sure these two photos are of the same individual. I focused on the most consistent features of his face that would hold true over a period of time and disregarded the shape of his head mostly. The reason is that his hair will make comparison difficult, and the potential or actual lens distortion will usually be more pronounced toward the edge of the frame. Keystoning of the subject due to the position of the head relative to the camera would most likely be minimal but could also factor in. His nose, eyes, eyebrows and mouth will remain largely the same but because of the tilt of his head (forward in one picture and backward in the other) will introduce some differences which can be accounted for. The key lighting in the SSC was lit with what appears to be a single luminaire, possibly a flash, about or a little above the head height on the subject's right-hand side. It doesn't look like any fill or bounce light was used. The difference between the key side and fill side is about 2 1/2 to 3 stops. To determine how many lights were used you only have to count the reflections in his eyes in both pictures. The passport photo was corrected for distortion. His head is tilted slightly toward the camera and is possibly a longer focal length than the SSC photo. The subject was lit with at least two lights, probably photofloods (I believe a passport photography studio would not use camera flashes due to costs and set up) one of which was a key light approximately head height on the subjects left centerline and a fill light approximately 1/2 stop less in intensity about chest high on the subject's right centerline. The lighting set up appears to be professional and what I would expect for a passport photo (flat lighting with detail) whereas the SSC photo looks as if an amateur had taken it without a proper lighting set up for that type of photo. That is why the eyes appear to be different colors. No fill lighting was used in the SSC image. This is what I came up with for comparison photos after correcting for distortion on the passport photo (I could have chosen the SSC photo to correct also but for the comparison only one needed to be corrected to the other). I then combined the two side by side which is what I think they do for comparisons when trying to identify someone. To me, after accounting for the forward lean of Oswald in the PP photo (the mouth even has the little fold on the bottom) it's near perfect. Edited January 11, 2023 by Bob Ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 Thanks Bob... Maybe help me understand some of the work I did as well... While the eyes/nose/mouth appear similar, the shape of the head is wrong, and in the collage below the difference in stature is easily seen The photo of LEE in the fatigues - a fairly large man in fact - and the ones of the smaller Oswald seem to betray the two different men to me... I've also included the writings of John Ely who was gathering the bio on Oswald... Jenner and Rankin knew there were problems with the conflict of who Ely spoke with and who they claimed was with Oswald thru his Marine career... Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Hargrove Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 On 1/7/2023 at 1:11 PM, Jonathan Cohen said: I strongly disagree. In fact, Jim Hargrove ran away and never came back after his most recent beating. Numerous member polls on this forum have also shown that the vast majority of serious assassination researchers dismiss "Harvey and Lee" as pure idiocy. What a hoot! I stay away from this forum for months, and then come back today to see Jonathan Cohen making up stuff about me again! Cohen admitted in May of last year that "there is evidence Oswald was impersonated at various points in his life." But, of course, he wants to see nothing suspicious about that at all! Don't even think about it, it happens to every Lone Nut, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Cohen Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 24 minutes ago, Jim Hargrove said: What a hoot! I stay away from this forum for months, and then come back today to see Jonathan Cohen making up stuff about me again! Cohen admitted in May of last year that "there is evidence Oswald was impersonated at various points in his life." But, of course, he wants to see nothing suspicious about that at all! Don't even think about it, it happens to every Lone Nut, eh? And for the umpteenth time, there is a huge difference between Oswald being impersonated and him being two different human beings entrenched in a decades-long, secret government doppelganger project. There is actual evidence for the former. The evidence for the latter is nothing more than oft-debunked, grossly misinterpreted documents/witness statements and laughable photo analysis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ness Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Jonathan Cohen said: The evidence for the latter is nothing more than oft-debunked, grossly misinterpreted documents/witness statements and laughable photo analysis. I understand your skepticism re the Harvey/Lee theory but let's look at a few facts. If you think that the use of doppelgangers or doubles is ridiculous let me introduce you to "Stargate", a DIA and CIA program to investigate and develop remote viewing and other parapsychic methods to be used for intelligence collection. The masterminds behind that gem weren't exactly wrapped real tight but managed to get a project started at Fort Meade to study the proposal. I might remind you we just recently had a President suggesting to his CDC adviser we were going to work on injecting Lysol or bleach and somehow using an ultraviolet light (where would the wand go, I wonder?) to combat COVID. If you think a project using doubles is somehow impossible to consider in 1950 or whenever think again. After World War Two Europe was a mess beyond anything comparable to what we see in recent times. Try walking from Yugoslavia to Poland along with several hundred thousand others and crossing paths with the same number going in the opposite direction. Internecine wars were common, squatters stealing the properties of victims of the holocaust, the list goes on. Millions of vulnerable and desperate people had to figure out a way to survive and feeding off the detritus of the emerging Cold War was one way to do that. The idea the CIA or others would consider or implement such a plan is not only reasonable but likely was at least considered. It's not far out to sea. Edited January 11, 2023 by Bob Ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ness Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 5 hours ago, David Josephs said: Thanks Bob... Maybe help me understand some of the work I did as well... While the eyes/nose/mouth appear similar, the shape of the head is wrong, and in the collage below the difference in stature is easily seen The photo of LEE in the fatigues - a fairly large man in fact - and the ones of the smaller Oswald seem to betray the two different men to me... I've also included the writings of John Ely who was gathering the bio on Oswald... Jenner and Rankin knew there were problems with the conflict of who Ely spoke with and who they claimed was with Oswald thru his Marine career... Thoughts? David do you have higher res photographs of the above? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Cohen Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 4 hours ago, Bob Ness said: I might remind you we just recently had a President suggesting to his CDC adviser we were going to work on injecting Lysol or bleach and somehow using an ultraviolet light (where would the wand go, I wonder?) to combat COVID. If you think a project using doubles is somehow impossible to consider in 1950 or whenever think again. Bob, come on. Are you really comparing an idiotic, off-the-cuff comment by Trump to the complexities of a long-term secret government doppelganger project? 4 hours ago, Bob Ness said: IThe idea the CIA or others would consider or implement such a plan is not only reasonable but likely was at least considered. It's not far out to sea. Consider it? Sure. Implement it? I mean... maybe? The problem is that, as always, there are myriad perfectly reasonable alternative explanations that do not necessitate two different Lee Harvey Oswalds, beyond the other logical fallacies involving such a scheme (which have been debated here endlessly). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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