The inevitable end result of our last 56 years

[Matt Allison]

Ben- what crime do you think Ray Epps committed that so desperately warrants the full force of United States law enforcement down upon him?

Edited January 19, 2022 by Matt Allison

[Benjamin Cole]

2 hours ago, Matt Allison said:

Ben- what crime do you think Ray Epps committed that so desperately warrants the full force of United States law enforcement down upon him?

Matt--

Ray Epps is copiously captured on video of promoting the illegal forceful entry of the Capitol, albeit through curiously thin barricades and police lines, on both 1/5 and 1/6. 

Epps did rather more than Mr Buffalo Horns on those two days in furtherance of a scrum-riot. 

I am not in favor of riots. Rioters, left- or right-wing, should be prosecuted, not in a political sense, but for breaching the peace.  A Marxist or libertarian rioter should receive equal treatment under the law. 

So...why is Mr Buffalo Horns behind bars for many years, while Ray Epps is free and not even prosecuted? 

Perhaps you will say that Epps never actually entered the Capitol grounds, ergo he cannot be prosecuted. That seems a little thin to me, and there are other members of the Oathkeepers who are now being prosecuted, who never even set foot in DC. 

Epps, and several other figures on 1/6, are recorded on video and appear to have acted as provocateurs. Then there is the mysterious pipe bomber who left bombs (curiously described as "viable") that resulted in the Capitol being evacuated even before the scrum started. 

The Cheney Committee's disclosure on Ray Epps, that they "interviewed" him and he denied being a federal asset, strikes me as rather feeble. 

The 1/6 events may have had different federal assets acting, as well as disaffected rioters, and not always in concert.

Some have reasonably speculated the JFKA resulted from a confluence of different agendas among individuals in the national intelligence, anti-Castro communities. 

After the JFKA, a cover story was developed, and not by the perps necessarily, but for bureaucratic and political advantage. 

As I always say, one reason to study the JFKA is to learn how the federal government operates, and to apply those lessons to present-day events.

 

 

 

 

[Matt Allison]

Ben- So no crime? You want Mr. Ray Epps arrested despite not committing a crime??? That's not how our justice system works. We have a First Amendment in the United States; it's why we're all able to freely speak our minds here on this site.

Now, the video below makes it rather obvious why "Mr. Buffalo Horns", or Jacob Chansley, which is his name, was arrested and received a severe prison term:

https://www.newyorker.com/video/watch/a-reporters-footage-from-inside-the-capitol-siege

Ray Epps didn't do anything remotely close to that, did he?

I'm not going to have to explain this to you every two weeks, am I?

 

[Ron Bulman]

Well, well, well.  This is surprising to me.  Only Thomas dissented.

Supreme Court allows Jan. 6 committee to get Trump documents (msn.com)

[Benjamin Cole]

37 minutes ago, Matt Allison said:

Ben- So no crime? You want Mr. Ray Epps arrested despite not committing a crime??? That's not how our justice system works. We have a First Amendment in the United States; it's why we're all able to freely speak our minds here on this site.

Now, the video below makes it rather obvious why "Mr. Buffalo Horns", or Jacob Chansley, which is his name, was arrested and received a severe prison term:

https://www.newyorker.com/video/watch/a-reporters-footage-from-inside-the-capitol-siege

Ray Epps didn't do anything remotely close to that, did he?

I'm not going to have to explain this to you every two weeks, am I?

 

Matt-

Yes, based on copious video recordings, Ray Epps urged specific and concrete actions, that is, he "incited violence."  Inciting violence is not free speech. 

There was no way for the protestors to enter the Capitol, as Epps urged over and over again, except forcefully (granted, the Capitol Police seemed only passingly interested in preventing occupation of the Capitol, and maybe it could be argued the Capitol Police engaged in a type of entrapment. That is for a court and jury to decide). 

So, yes, in my view Epps deserves arrest, then a trial, and if convicted by jury of peers, then a sentence.

Perhaps Epps would be exonerated in court, and we would have to accept that outcome as well. 

But the fact remains, there were several people on the ground on 1/6 acting as provocateurs, and none have even been prosecuted. 

1/6 the worst event in US history, eclipsing even 9/11 or Pearl Harbor, or some say.

And Ray Epps helped instigate the 1/6 scrum, indisputably.

So...no prosecution of Ray Epps? 

 

 

 

 

 

[W. Niederhut]

1 hour ago, Matt Allison said:

Ben- So no crime? You want Mr. Ray Epps arrested despite not committing a crime??? That's not how our justice system works. We have a First Amendment in the United States; it's why we're all able to freely speak our minds here on this site.

Now, the video below makes it rather obvious why "Mr. Buffalo Horns", or Jacob Chansley, which is his name, was arrested and received a severe prison term:

https://www.newyorker.com/video/watch/a-reporters-footage-from-inside-the-capitol-siege

Ray Epps didn't do anything remotely close to that, did he?

I'm not going to have to explain this to you every two weeks, am I?

 

Repetition doesn't work with Ben.  He keeps a very "open" mind--in which facts readily go in one ear and out the other.

Apparently, Ben didn't read, or understand, the detailed article I posted last night (on the previous page) about Trump's well known de-emphasis on the threat of right wing domestic terrorism in the U.S., and the cozy relationship between Trump's national security establishment and right wing militias (including Oath Keepers) as a more likely explanation of the lax Capitol security on January 6th.

Meanwhile, Ted Cruz recently sent out a fund raising letter based on his Ray Epps narrative.  MAGA... 🤥

Edited January 20, 2022 by W. Niederhut

[Ron Bulman]

11 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Matt-

Yes, based on copious video recordings, Ray Epps urged specific and concrete actions, that is, he "incited violence."  Inciting violence is not free speech. 

There was no way for the protestors to enter the Capitol, as Epps urged over and over again, except forcefully (granted, the Capitol Police seemed only passingly interested in preventing occupation of the Capitol, and maybe it could be argued the Capitol Police engaged in a type of entrapment. That is for a court and jury to decide). 

So, yes, in my view Epps deserves arrest, then a trial, and if convicted by jury of peers, then a sentence.

Perhaps Epps would be exonerated in court, and we would have to accept that outcome as well. 

But the fact remains, there were several people on the ground on 1/6 acting as provocateurs, and none have even been prosecuted. 

1/6 the worst event in US history, eclipsing even 9/11 or Pearl Harbor, or some say.

And Ray Epps helped instigate the 1/6 scrum, indisputably.

So...no prosecution of Ray Epps? 

 

 

 

 

 

He, among so many others incited violence?  What about the former prez.   I thought it was just a scrum.  You know, just a bit of a tussle among players in a rugby match.  All forgiven over a beer afterwards.

The freak wearing the bull horns did invade one of the inner sanctums of Democracy.  His actions while there debased it.  He attempted to prevent the lawfully elected certification of the president.  That's insurrection, if not treason.  A hangable offense.  Highly disputable.  

Epps needs no rope around his neck.

 

[Benjamin Cole]

52 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

He, among so many others incited violence?  What about the former prez.   I thought it was just a scrum.  You know, just a bit of a tussle among players in a rugby match.  All forgiven over a beer afterwards.

The freak wearing the bull horns did invade one of the inner sanctums of Democracy.  His actions while there debased it.  He attempted to prevent the lawfully elected certification of the president.  That's insurrection, if not treason.  A hangable offense.  Highly disputable.  

Epps needs no rope around his neck.

 

Well, I can't argue with Clint Eastwood. 

If Clint Eastwood says "Free the Oathkeeper Ray Epps But Hang the Half-wit Mr. Buffalo Horns," then who am I to disagree? 

But, if allowed, I will still retain a skeptical view of official-state-media narratives of 1/6. 

 

[W. Niederhut]

6 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Well, I can't argue with Clint Eastwood. 

If Clint Eastwood says "Free the Oathkeeper Ray Epps But Hang the Half-wit Mr. Buffalo Horns," then who am I to disagree? 

But, if allowed, I will still retain a skeptical view of official-state-media narratives of 1/6. 

 

Forget the official-state-media narratives.  Try basic empirical observation, for a change.

Also, you seem to have trouble understanding that Trump was in charge of the "official-state" on January 6, 2021.

Christopher Wray was Trump's appointed FBI Director, following his firing of James Comey and Andrew McCabe (for their reluctance to abort the investigation of Michael Flynn's 2016 Russian contacts.)

Christopher Miller was Trump's Pentagon Chief, following the resignations of Mattis and Esper.

The people in charge of national security on 1/6 were Trump appointees.

 

[David Andrews]

Joe E. Lewis's late, Kennedy-Castro-era humor, delivered in bleats and coughs.  Enough to show you that Lenny Bruce, working in the same media, was building a coffin from which there would be no Houdini escape:

Inspirational verse: "Mort Sahl - best thing in a dirty sweater since Lana Turner."

Edited January 20, 2022 by David Andrews

[Matt Allison]

This is all going to be so damn entertaining and awesome.

It will be a giant win for the strength of this nation to have survived a coup attempt and then successfully prosecuted the perpetrators.

[Benjamin Cole]

1 hour ago, W. Niederhut said:

Forget the official-state-media narratives.  Try basic empirical observation, for a change.

Also, you seem to have trouble understanding that Trump was in charge of the "official-state" on January 6, 2021.

Christopher Wray was Trump's appointed FBI Director, following his firing of James Comey and Andrew McCabe (for their reluctance to abort the investigation of Michael Flynn's 2016 Russian contacts.)

Christopher Miller was Trump's Pentagon Chief, following the resignations of Mattis and Esper.

The people in charge of national security on 1/6 were Trump appointees.

 

JFK was the US President on 11/22/63. 

JFK appointed John McCone head of the CIA in November 1961. 

Ergo, the CIA, or CIA assets, had nothing to do with the JFKA.  

Also, keep in mind the absent-on-duty Capitol Police department reports to the legislative branch. 

Edited January 20, 2022 by Benjamin Cole

[Benjamin Cole]

7 hours ago, David Andrews said:

Joe E. Lewis's late, Kennedy-Castro-era humor, delivered in bleats and coughs.  Enough to show you that Lenny Bruce, working in the same media, was building a coffin from which there would be no Houdini escape:

Inspirational verse: "Mort Sahl - best thing in a dirty sweater since Lana Turner."

There is movie on Youtube, starring Frank Sinatra, who plays Joe E Lewis. "The Joker is Wild." 

If you like cigarettes and booze, this movie is tops!

[W. Niederhut]

8 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

JFK was the US President on 11/22/63. 

JFK appointed John McCone head of the CIA in November 1961. 

Ergo, the CIA, or CIA assets, had nothing to do with the JFKA.  

Also, keep in mind the absent-on-duty Capitol Police department reports to the legislative branch. 

Ah, yes, that must be it, Ben!  Way to use your cabeza!   🤥

Nancy Pelosi and Congress must have conspired to be attacked and zip-tied by a mob of violent, defecating Trump Oath Keepers on January 6th!  

Meanwhile, let us know how anyone other than Trump and his associates could have conceivably benefited from Trump's plot to obstruct the certification of Biden's election.

You've never answered my question about that one during the past year.

[David Andrews]

3 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

There is movie on Youtube, starring Frank Sinatra, who plays Joe E Lewis. "The Joker is Wild." 

If you like cigarettes and booze, this movie is tops!

Agreed and upvoted on all accounts.  But even Frank can't do Lewis like Lewis.  Mostly he does him as Frank, which is telling.

Sinatra said at fifty that he'd have the body of a 22-year-old man, "if I hadn't spent all those years drinking with Joe E. Lewis."

There's a whole world of sad-clown debauchery here that could be mined for the movies, but the last guys who cared were Billy Crystal, and Scorsese at the end of Raging Bull.

 

Edited January 20, 2022 by David Andrews