Benjamin Cole Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 1 hour ago, W. Niederhut said: Ben, Omicron is, in fact, killing adults in the U.S. The Meat Loaf Syndrome. I recently posted that disturbing U.S. mortality data (above.) And the UK data has shown a dramatically reduced Omicron death risk for the fully vaccinated. It's all about the science, if we pay attention. I will defer to you. If children can spread the highly infectious Omicron variant, what about dogs and cats? What about unvaccinated immigrants, from whatever quarter (including illegal immigrants)? Scientifically, what is your response? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Brancato Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 53 minutes ago, Bob Ness said: Just found out the guy working on my house got it from his four-year-old and passed it on to, his wife, grandpa, granny and his sister all in about 24 hours. Came from day care. Probably Omicron by the looks of it. I picked up H1N1 from my friend's 5 year old in 2008 which knocked four of us two hundred pound plus men out for a week. Kids are the worst for spreading it. I’m glad you posted this. Protecting older people is the reason most often given by friends of mine. Teachers have the same point of view. Testing would seem appropriate. We don’t do enough of that. Distancing works too. If the vaccines presented no problems for kids … but is that true? It just feels weird to vaccinate kids to protect adults. Grandpa and teacher are two different scenarios. Teachers shouldn’t have much problem maintaining distance, and I would presume they would be vaccinated and boosted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W. Niederhut Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 1 hour ago, Paul Brancato said: Are we sure it’s not Delta? I’m really bothered by the lack of info on this. Why wouldn’t we test everyone in hospitals to know which variant they have and then publish the info? The articles never actually give a death count for Omicron. They simply state the death toll, and then side by side mention the Omicron wave. Doesn’t that concern you? Language is important. It’s like when ‘they’ tell you what investors are worried about before the markets open, using phrases that never actually use the word ‘because’. Paul, Omicron has been the prevalent new variant in the U.S. during the past month. Western Europe and the UK experienced the Omicron wave earlier. The most disturbing thing about the latest Omicron death stats (in the NYT article I posted this morning, and below) is that Omicron death rates in the U.S. have exceeded death rates in Europe-- mainly because of our relatively low vaccination rates. Those numbers are in this article. Coronavirus Briefing: Omicron’s Death Toll - The New York Times (nytimes.com) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Brancato Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 3 minutes ago, W. Niederhut said: Paul, Omicron has been the prevalent new variant in the U.S. during the past month. Western Europe and the UK experienced the Omicron wave earlier. The most disturbing thing about the latest Omicron death stats (in the NYT article I posted this morning, and below) is that Omicron death rates in the U.S. have exceeded death rates in Europe-- mainly because of our relatively low vaccination rates. Those numbers are in this article. Coronavirus Briefing: Omicron’s Death Toll - The New York Times (nytimes.com) I’ll ask the same question - is juxtaposing Omicron surge and deaths enough for you? Not for me. The details are lacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W. Niederhut Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 10 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said: I’ll ask the same question - is juxtaposing Omicron surge and deaths enough for you? Not for me. The details are lacking. Paul, Here are a few references about technical issues related to the identification of Omicron, and its differentiation from Delta. Omicron SARS-CoV-2 new variant: global prevalence and biological and clinical characteristics - PubMed (nih.gov) Wastewater Based Surveillance of SARS-CoV-2: Challenges and Perspective from a Canadian Inter-laboratory Study (nih.gov) Omicron (B.1.1.529) - variant of concern - molecular profile and epidemiology: a mini review - PubMed (nih.gov) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ness Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 27 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said: I’m glad you posted this. Protecting older people is the reason most often given by friends of mine. Teachers have the same point of view. Testing would seem appropriate. We don’t do enough of that. Distancing works too. If the vaccines presented no problems for kids … but is that true? It just feels weird to vaccinate kids to protect adults. Grandpa and teacher are two different scenarios. Teachers shouldn’t have much problem maintaining distance, and I would presume they would be vaccinated and boosted. Well... The scientist in my house who is board certified in three different specialties thinks the Omicron variant stays suspended longer in the air as well as being more infectious (or that's why it is) and we do MORE precautions rather than less. Distance in a packed school room isn't that effective because in a bad situation it will be easier to inhale or possibly be infected through your eyes. The let down in precautions six months ago was stupid as far as we're concerned (we've only given passing interest in the CDC recommendations) and lots of people who were pretty careful are getting it now, vaxxed or not. Vaccinating kids I think boils down to parents not wanting to take care of them during the day, largely. Most people have no time to watch them and so the options are limited - that's my opinion though. I have no idea whether kids should be vaccinated or not but I presume it's as safe for them as adults. At 5? Dunno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Cole Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 5 hours ago, David Andrews said: What if he's just a Mockingbird variant? You mean, he is targeted by the state, or he is financed by the state? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Cole Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 It has been posited here that unvaccinated populations can lead to mutations, variants in the CIV-19 virus. Certainly, COVID-19 has become more infectious, alongside efforts to limit its spread. Did C-19 mutate to hurdle vaccinations and masks? That is, only variants that were even more infectious survived? Interesting question. But let's go back to "unvaccinated populations are a risk." If so, the outlook may be hopeless. Recent experimental research shows that many mammals, including cats, dogs, bank voles, ferrets, fruit bats, hamsters, mink, pigs, rabbits, racoon dogs, tree shrews, and white-tailed deer can be infected with the virus.--CDC Obviously, these populations are not being vaccinated. People live in close quarters, or professionally, with several of these species. Other species, such as deer, could spread the virus to tame populations and then to humans. These other species could serve as reservoir populations, in which mutations can occur---perhaps even more-lethal variants, more infectious strains, or variants with very, very serious long-term effects that emerge gradually. If Matt Allison is right, that unvaccinated C19 host populations are a danger....we could be in a world of hurt for a long long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Andrews Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 7 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said: You mean, he is targeted by the state, or he is financed by the state? "Of uncertain origin." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 Why Trump's call for protests against prosecutors is worrying By Zeeshan Aleem, MSNBC https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/why-trump-s-call-protests-against-prosecutors-worrying-n1288390?icid=msd_topgrid - Donald Trump - "If these radical, vicious, racist prosecutors do anything wrong or illegal, I hope we are going to have in this country the biggest protest we have ever had in Washington, D.C.; in New York; in Atlanta; and elsewhere, because our country and our elections are corrupt." Our country is corrupt? If our country is corrupt, just exactly does he want to replace it with? If we are not a country of the people, and by the people, and for the people, then what kind of country will we be? Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Price Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 1 hour ago, Steve Thomas said: "If these radical, vicious, racist prosecutors do anything wrong or illegal, I hope we are going to have in this country the biggest protest we have ever had in Washington, D.C.; in New York; in Atlanta; and elsewhere, because our country and our elections are corrupt." Steve, he is "projecting" again. What the above sentence means when decoded, is: I am a radical, vicious, racist, any prosecutors trying to hold me accountable must be stopped. I cannot do anything wrong or illegal, because I am a god and NEVER wrong. I hope I am going to provoke the biggest protests the country has ever had in Washington, D.C.; in New York; in Atlanta; and elsewhere, because if I do not, I may finally have to face an hour of judgement. Your country and Your elections are corrupt unless they validate ME. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Gallaway Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 Paul, I would also prefer to take the novavax vaccine next time just to mix it up. Bob's story is interesting as to the passing on of infection by the quite young to their parents. They have been experimenting with mrna vaccines for decades now, so there is some research.It says in this article, that side effects happen within the first couple of months. The myocarditis that Dennis always brings up is supposed to happen in a couple of years, so there should be lots of results in the next 6 months if that was true. https://www.muhealth.org/our-stories/how-do-we-know-covid-19-vaccine-wont-have-long-term-side-effects Of course, this is just a link. I have a story. On this expat forum, this expat Real Estate women in Panama, who always seemed reasonably intelligent, says all the doctors there are taking ivermectin. I thought to myself, that's interesting! I heard everyone over 50 in Panama was able to get vaccinated because I heard of accounts of other expats saying they took the vaccination. But of course if people over 50 were given vaccines, why wouldn't doctors and health care people? It didn't make much sense to me. I talked to another vaxxed ex pat later , and he said he's never heard of widespread use of ivermectin among Panama doctors. Then later, she accounts that it turns out this woman refused to get vaccinated though she could have, caught covid and was in the hospital and out of circulation for over 3 months, and still hasn't completely recovered ! I start thinking , she has a stake in exaggerating the ivermectin use by doctors in Panama because she wants to believe there are cures outside of the vaccines, so she can rationalize that she didn't make a dumb mistake by not taking the available vaccines in the first place. Whatever, This is just to illustrate, who do you want to believe about this? Most of the anti vax movement have become that way by reading articles online that reinforce their biases. Or maybe through an influential figure, like a friend or ....Trump! Obviously it's crazy. Vaccine hesitancy. We know there have been vaccine debacles. https://www.ctpost.com/local/article/Analysis-A-short-history-of-when-vaccines-went-15530841.php Even CNN says so. https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/01/health/eua-coronavirus-vaccine-history/index.html Vaccine hesitancy? The anti vax crowd for many years was around 10-15%! Now with Trump and Bill Gates and Soros, and Faucci? That is, all the BSers and all the BS that people can make up about somebody else! You can see it here on this thread Paul. Anybody can make up any BS they want, and either run from explaining or defending what they say, or just refusing to explain what they mean. Obviously there's no vetting process. They didn't previously try it out on a critical audience and listen or learn and become more informed. Then they're called on jt factually, and cry that they're being bullied or their "rights of free speech" are being infringed upon, or they're being cancel cultured! No one has to take responsibility for what they say. It's easy to see why nobody can be sure of anything. Here's such an example, that won't be popular here to point out.. It's the RFK apology, maybe due to his wife.Talk about hemming and hawing! Comparing his "covid persecution" to Anne Frank and the Holocaust! I mean, talk about the self victimizing folly of the rich! What a complete weenie thing for a Kennedy to do! I think it often skips a generation and he's done some really good things for environmental causes. But I don't love him just because Di Eugenio may have convinced just him who killed his Father and Uncle. Paul, I understand your hesitancy to just accept the mrna vaccines because we are told they are good. Similarly, In the years I've been here, though I do think JFK was killed as result of a conspiracy that was likely from elements within his government, I've come to think that about 70% of what I once believed about the details are credibly sourced. JMO And I don't think RFK's, Anne Frank comments speak well of him, and help lending credibility to his claim after 50 years that a conspiracy killed his Father and Uncle, and it sort of sets us back.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Allison Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 If a vaccine with MRNA is going to cause problems, it would likely happen immediately, and usually never more than a week later. Messenger RNA stays in the body for a very short time and some is flushed out of our body every day. It is suspected by some that the myocarditis cases you hear about are the result of imperfect injection procedure, re: the arm muscle. My friend got Covid from his 4 year old, as putting masks on 4 year-olds at the daycare center is not something that was really ever going to work, and eventually the whole family got it. The 4 year-old managed Covid just fine, but did later develop flu, which he had a much tougher time with, and thankfully recovered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Allison Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 I'm not a doctor, but if I had a child age 6 or under I probably would be fine with them skipping the Covid shot. JMO tho. The immune systems of children and adults differ in crucial ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Cole Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 3 hours ago, Matt Allison said: I'm not a doctor, but if I had a child age 6 or under I probably would be fine with them skipping the Covid shot. JMO tho. The immune systems of children and adults differ in crucial ways. What about your cats and dogs? Local pig farms? Wild deer populations? The reason I ask this is that in Hong Kong 2,000 pet hamsters were exterminated as a possible vector for C19. That is interesting that the CDC says pigs can get C19. As you may know, feral pig populations are exploding across North America. And, of course, hog farms have become enormous, perfect breeding grounds for C19 mutations. If animal populations can become reservoirs for C19 mutations...then what? After all, the M$M story line was that C19 initially came from an animal...and people who suspected a lab leak in Wuhan were "conspiracy nuts" who were kicked off the web. So the animal-to-humans transmission process is taken seriously.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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