Unveiling The Limo Stop

[Tony Krome]

10 minutes ago, Joseph McBride said:

As a former cameraman, I wonder why the extant Zapruder film almost loses JFK at the bottom of

the frame at the time of the final shots, which is odd, since Zapruder did a generally good job

of panning and holding the camera study under great duress. I wonder if this oddity

is one of the artifacts of alteration.

If you read Zapruder's testimony carefully, he actually expresses surprise that the limo is "buried" low in the footage. IMO, the footage at that point was a zoomed view of the original footage. The zoomed view may hide activity between the camera and the limo. In other words, if the footage was zoomed back out, we would see activity on the grass, kerb, road etc

[Chris Davidson]

Trying to keep the vehicle centered between the sprocket holes:

B/H 414 Full Zoom

Something closer to this perhaps:

 

[Joseph McBride]

I meant to type "hold the camera steady," as Zapruder mostly did.

I have heard people speculate before that something may have

been reflected in the side of the car that they didn't want us to see.

Maybe, as Tony Krome suggests, there was something else down there

they didn't want us to see.

[Joseph McBride]

I once met Jack Daniel in Dealey Plaza and asked why his film

shot on the other side of the plaza gets all blurry and loses

most of the subject as the car passes his position. He said

he was holding the camera to his chest and panning without

looking through the viewfinder so he could look directly at the limousine. He was also very close to the limo, which made it out of focus. It is still a valuable film even if we can't really see into the limousine. 

Edited May 1, 2021 by Joseph McBride

[Jamey Flanagan]

In response to an earlier question about the limo almost hitting the curb.........this is something that occured during the turn onto Elm. The extant Z film does not show the turn onto Elm. This could be one of the reasons they removed the frames of the limo turning onto Elm. Zapruder always said that once he started filming that he didn't stop until the assassination was over and the limo passed by. Yet in the extant Z film he started recording the first vehicles then stops and doesn't start back recording until the limo was well down Elm Street nearing the Stemmons Freeway sign. A handful of folks have claimed to have seen an unaltered version of the Z film or another film from a similar angle and those people say that the turn onto Elm was in that film. They say the limo turned wide and it appeared as though Greer had mistaken the service road that passed in front of the TSBD for Elm Street and at the last second he realized his mistake and swerved hard to left to correct this narrowly missing the curb. It has been argued that this erratic driving was the reason why these frames showing the turn on Elm had been excised but I think there was also possibly a missed shot and this was the main reason for the missing frames. Several witnesses have said that the shooting started right after the turn onto Elm. Some have even said on Houston Street just before the turn on Elm. I think it was Kellerman who said he heard the President in his thick Boston accent saying "I've been hit!" or something to that effect after the first shot. If the first shot was the throat shot then he would not have been able to say that in my opinion. I recall reading somewhere that the mortician had said something about a cut in the President's cheek maybe and the embalming fluid wanting to leak out or something like that. I'm thinking the first shot missed and hit the curb sending concrete flying up and cutting the President much like it did Tague. If not then maybe he recieved the shallow back wound first and screamed "I've been hit!" and then recieved the throat wound. He doesn't show any signs of being hit though before the throat wound to me so I lean toward either a chunk of concrete hitting him or maybe even possible a shard of hot metal from the first shot passing through the traffic light like they theorized in one documentary (maybe The Lost Bullet? If not maybe The Smoking Gun). One other possibility is a shot just flat out missed during these missing frames. JFK is waving when the extant Z film starts back up. We'll say this was just after the shot. It takes the President a second or two to process what he has heard. Most everyone said the first shot sounded like a firecracker. He stops waving looking to his right. Thinking it was just a firecracker he starts back waving to the crowd. Just before he disappears behind the Stemmons Freeway sign he gets shot in the back and we can't see it. A split second after that while still behind the sign he screams out that he has been hit just before the throat shot hits him and he comes into view from behind the sign. Personally, I've never felt comfortable with the sign. Something just has never seemed right about it. I think the sign has been enlarged and maybe even turned at a different angle to cover something up. Anyway, just thought I'd share these ideas.

[Dan Rice]

10 hours ago, Jamey Flanagan said:

Zapruder always said that once he started filming that he didn't stop until the assassination was over and the limo passed by. 

I've have heard that over the years, as well.  But has it been documented somewhere?

[Paul Rigby]

1 hour ago, Dan Rice said:

I've have heard that over the years, as well.  But has it been documented somewhere?

This transcript is from video tape of the live broadcast seen nationwide on the ABC network at about 2:10pm CST, November 22, 1963. The interviewer, seated on the left, is WFAA-TV program director Jay Watson. On the right, with his hat on the desk, is Abraham Zapruder.

WATSON: A gentleman just walked in our studio that I am meeting for the first time as well as you, this is WFAA-TV in Dallas, Texas. May I have your name please, sir?

ZAPRUDER: My name is Abraham Zapruder.

WATSON: Mr. Zapruda?

ZAPRUDER: Zapruder, yes sir.

WATSON: Zapruda. And would you tell us your story please, sir?

ZAPRUDER: I got out in, uh, about a half-hour earlier to get a good spot to shoot some pictures. And I found a spot, one of these concrete blocks they have down near that park, near the underpass. And I got on top there, there was another girl from my office, she was right behind me. And as I was shooting, as the President was coming down from Houston Street making his turn, it was about a half-way down there, I heard a shot, and he slumped to the side, like this. Then I heard another shot or two, I couldn't say it was one or two, and I saw his head practically open up, all blood and everything, and I kept on shooting. That's about all, I'm just sick, I can't…

WATSON: I think that pretty well expresses the entire feelings of the whole world.

ZAPRUDER: Terrible, terrible.

WATSON: You have the film in your camera, we'll try to get…

ZAPRUDER: Yes, I brought it on the studio, now.

WATSON: …we'll try to get that processed and have it as soon as possible.

WFAA then shows a video tape of the hearse with Kennedy's body leaving the Parkland Hospital driveway. Watson next shows a photograph of the Texas School Book Depository and points to the sixth floor window.

http://www.jfk-info.com/wfaa-tv.htm

[Tony Krome]

On 3/8/2021 at 10:22 AM, Chris Davidson said:

Bell/Howell 414- Full Zoom setting-On the pedestal

Chris, did any of your frames show what is described below?

https://sites.google.com/site/lightboxzframes/inter-sprocket-area

[Chris Davidson]

2 hours ago, Tony Krome said:

Chris, did any of your frames show what is described below?

https://sites.google.com/site/lightboxzframes/inter-sprocket-area

Yes Tony.

I have posted this example in the past.

It's the same result just that the extended area of coverage is in the background as opposed to the foreground in the Z example.

This ghost image example is the upper part of the Purse(early Z background frames) Building that appears.

I used some of the main frame(white vertical/horizontal building stripes) for registration along with the upper right hand sprocket hole.

If that makes sense.

 

 

[George Govus]

On 5/1/2021 at 2:20 PM, Paul Rigby said:

This transcript is from video tape of the live broadcast seen nationwide on the ABC network at about 2:10pm CST, November 22, 1963. The interviewer, seated on the left, is WFAA-TV program director Jay Watson. On the right, with his hat on the desk, is Abraham Zapruder.

Thank you.

Maybe I need to see the place. I can't imagine I would have chosen the spot he took, with the Stemmons Freeway sign in the way.

[Chris Davidson]

More of the WC pyramid at the bottom.

If interested, you can compare it to the earlier, less completed version here:

https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/22692-swan-song-math-rules/?do=findComment&comment=327975

I'll explain the additions slowly, but surely.

 

[Chris Davidson]

13 hours ago, Chris Davidson said:

More of the WC pyramid at the bottom.

If interested, you can compare it to the earlier, less completed version here:

 

 

https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/22692-swan-song-math-rules/?do=findComment&comment=327981

Using the link above, apply the same distance 10.2ft between the Robert West determined shot at extant z207(Station# 371.1) and the shot #1 official designation(Station# 381.3) to the z313 headshot and move it further down Elm St arriving  at Station# 475.5(see pyramid).

 

 

[Chris Davidson]

Next, add the "shorted" distance the WC used (.9ft) from CE884 z161-z166 and apply that to the pyramid which brings us to Station# 476.4.

The reason you short a distance in one location, is to accommadate for that real distance in a different location.

 

 

[David Josephs]

On 5/1/2021 at 9:43 AM, Dan Rice said:

I've have heard that over the years, as well.  But has it been documented somewhere?

Yes Dan it has...  Roy Truly's testimony calls it out 

Mr. TRULY. That is right.
And the President's car following close behind came along at an average speed of 10 or 15 miles an hour. It wasn't that much, because they were getting ready to turn. And the driver of the Presidential car swung out too far to the right, and he came almost within an inch of running into this little abutment here, between Elm and the Parkway. And he slowed down perceptibly and pulled back to the left to get over into the middle lane of the parkway. Not being familiar with the street, he came too far out this way when he made his turn.
Mr. BELIN. He came too far to the north before he made his curve, and as he curved--as he made his left turn from Houston onto the street leading to the expressway, he almost hit this north curb?
Mr. TRULY. That is right. Just before he got to it, he had to almost stop, to pull over to the left.
If he had maintained his speed, he would probably have hit this little section here.

In the reenactment they put the "limo stand-in" on Postion A claiming that while not on the Zfilm, the limo did pass thru this spot at this time....

What I found additionally strange about images of that turn is the TOWNER film and how as the limo moves away and gets small, the images (especially the column) in the background gets larger

If you have a quicktime version you can move back and forth and see the effect.

Somehow the limo growns and slides to the left.. pretty amazing really.  

Here are 2 of the films showing the limo turn and subsequent turn of another car seemingly headed straight to the curb. 
This is also the infamous area where BAKER was supposed to have parked his bike and run toward the TSBD.

Little if any other evidence I could find mentions this turn..  but Position A doesn't lie.

[Eddy Bainbridge]

Hi David I would be grateful if you could clarify 'and he came almost within an inch of running into this little abutment here, between Elm and the Parkway' in your view. 

My UK interpretation is that he is saying the limo nearly ran into what  I might call a Bollard, or more importantly, a specific point in the road. Mr Belin seems to be asking Mr Truly 'are you saying the car nearly hit the curb?'(a continuous line) NOT asking 'Did the car hit a specific point' (abutment?bollard?)

I hope its clear I'm asking this because IF there is an identifiable point that Truly is referring to as an 'abutment' then it makes re-creations easier.